87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

[Blue2Green]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Great looking work, cant wait to get into my Four Winns project.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

nice looking glass job! from your last pic it doesnt look like you wrapped the top of the stringer? is that what you are using the 4oz mat for? or is the picture just deceiving?. also when you were doing ur layup did you use 1 large piece, or a few smaller pieces...im just about to start my first glass project this week and was interested in your process as you have some very nice results. if the picture is deceiving, did you wrap with the 1708 or just csm. if you did the csm did you use any tricks to lay it down over the top of the stringer? as i here this can be a real trouble issue.

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

nice looking glass job! from your last pic it doesnt look like you wrapped the top of the stringer? is that what you are using the 4oz mat for? or is the picture just deceiving?. also when you were doing ur layup did you use 1 large piece, or a few smaller pieces...im just about to start my first glass project this week and was interested in your process as you have some very nice results. if the picture is deceiving, did you wrap with the 1708 or just csm. if you did the csm did you use any tricks to lay it down over the top of the stringer? as i here this can be a real trouble issue.

The tops of the stringers are not glassed yet,they will however get a layer of 4oz over the tops.
The stringer sides are a layer of csm first then 2 layers of biax full runs no short pieces.....no real tricks to it,we used a small 1"x6" paint roller from Home depot,resin the sides of stringers,laid the biax and pressed it in place with gloved hands then rolled resin over them to saturate...thats about it.

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Take it from me... RUN AWAY!!!! These big glassers are hard to work on.

If it was easy everyone would be doing it!

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Rellik I think what caught your eye in the last pic it where the stringer is notched....that's where the seats will attach. We have a piece of 3/4 ply that's coated in csm that will go from the outer stringers across the center ones....It will tie all the stringers together and the deck 5/8 ply will cover over it. That should give us a thick anchor point for the seat pedestals. I should have pics of that next weekend!

 

[Fingernip]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Great work. You caught and suprassed what i have done to my boat in 3 years in like a week lol. How are you planning to support the deck around the ski locker? I will probably just notch the stringer and use 2 layers of ply around the opening like 4winns did from factory. Also will you be bonding the bow section to the deck? I have even considered cutting the bottom of mine out and just glassing the sides directly to the deck.

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Great work. You caught and suprassed what i have done to my boat in 3 years in like a week lol. How are you planning to support the deck around the ski locker? I will probably just notch the stringer and use 2 layers of ply around the opening like 4winns did from factory. Also will you be bonding the bow section to the deck? I have even considered cutting the bottom of mine out and just glassing the sides directly to the deck.

We have a piece made for the seat support that will also carry the ski locker hatch. It will extend about an inch past the cut out in the deck.

Were not going to bond the cap to the deck,we have it wedged up and will lay glass under it to connect the new deck to the old.

Four Winns installed carpet then dropped the cap down on it.....kind of stupid if you ask me....its just a place to collect moisture and promote rot.

After the deck is in and covered in 1708 and 4oz cloth we will pull the shims and reposition some 2x4 blocks to raise the cap off the deck again.
I have a sheet of rubber roofing that will be cut to fit the deck under the walk through and bow seating. We will slide that under,pull it back and coat with contact adhesive to create a watertight seal from the chines so water cant soak in to the deck under there. I will post pics of that in a couple of weeks.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

After the deck is in and covered in 1708 and 4oz cloth we will pull the shims and reposition some 2x4 blocks to raise the cap off the deck again.
I have a sheet of rubber roofing that will be cut to fit the deck under the walk through and bow seating. We will slide that under,pull it back and coat with contact adhesive to create a watertight seal from the chines so water cant soak in to the deck under there. I will post pics of that in a couple of weeks.

HUH??????

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

LOL whats the matter Wood? Can't follow that one?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Well, I am OLD but yeah, that one is eluding me. I guess I'm gunna have to wait for the MOVIE!!!!!!

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

I'll try to explain..... where the cap sits on the deck,the walk through,it had carpet on the deck and the cap/bow seating part of the cap rested on it.
The carpet was shot and water rotted.... We pulled it out from under there. Now I don't want that to sit directly on the deck because vibration will wear through the glass on the deck.

So my thought was to take rubber roofing membrane (it's thick like a truck tire inner tube) cut it to fit the shape of the deck,slide it under the walk through area.... once it's set in place and fit to the contour of the deck along the chines,fold it back and use contact adhesive to stick it to the deck. I will run a bead of sealer along the edge where the deck meets the chine at the gunnel so if water comes in over the bow and runs in under the bow seating it cant be trapped between the deck and the walk through part of the cap.....the water will have to run over the rubber and down the deck to the bilge..... Hope that clears it up for you .... If not I'll have to get your phone # and talk to you

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

When it comes time to do it, Take some pics. That'll clear it up fer me. I'm just concerned about the contact cement. I GUESS it is ok for Marine Use??? And the Rubber Roofing material. I have used in in my former construction days so I am familiar with it just not quite sure still, how you are going to incorporate it but I AM sure that YOU ARE SURE and THAT is what is important. If you are convinced it will work then I am sure it will. I really can't wait to SEE it. I LIKE ingenuity when it comes to making things over. Keep it up!!!!

 

[sprintst]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

I see you're doing another one. Maybe I can just buy one from you guys when you get bored of yours.

At least I'd know it was done right... Nice work guys. Keep it up.

Take it from me... RUN AWAY!!!! These big glassers are hard to work on.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

rick.. by 4 oz im assuming you mean cloth, not mat. I may be wrong when i say this but i think i remember someone telling me that cloth isnt a good "water proofer" because it doesnt hold alot of resin. i would cap the top of your stringers with CSM. Again i may be wrong. i also believe that is the part of the reason you put CSM down on the deck first then cloth as well as the fact its easier for other clothes and roven to bond to CSM then just plain ply or other surface. This would only matter if you were using poly. if your using epoxy and i cant remember which you are using then my point is not relevant.

did you figure out what your going to do for foam/drainage under the foam?

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Good point on the cloth not holding a lot of resin. Every time we did some sort of layup we coated the tops of the stringers with resin and let it soak in. They must have 6-8 coats by now. I do have some heavier cloth around think it's 6 or 7 1/2 oz guess that should do.

plus when we drop in the deck I have a calk/sealer we use on the job called Geo Cel that will be on the stringer tops also. http://www.geocelusa.com/php/oic/product.php?prdb_product_id=7

This is some tough stuff and I have seen a demo at my roofing supply co. where they had different materials (wood glass plastic brick fiberglass metal) all bonded together with this stuff. The even mix substrates wood to metal,brick to wood etc.) You can't pull it apart! It will rip the substrate before the bond breaks. I am sure the stringer tops will be fine after that

As far as foam and drainage... all lockers will have 1"pvc pipe drains set in 5200 and the stringers will have the same thing.
Foam will be 1 1/2" blue board standing on edge running along the stringers....because of the angle of the hull and the board being square there will be a path for water to flow under the foam to the drains.

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Hey Rick,
Thanks for asking about my boat on my post. Just reading yours today. I have done some glassing before on skis but never a big job like im taking on with the FW. One thing I have done is researched the topic for 2 years and been reading iboats for bout that long. Cloth will not stick well to anything without mat. It is the same for woven roving and neither are water tight. The next statement I know will be hard to believe. The reisn is not waterproof either. It WILL seep water in. This is why our boats are in this shape. FW painted a lot of the wood that had no glass with resin, it did not work. The only way to get a good seal is to use matt. Two layers for a waterproof seal. By the way, got my stringer in and epoxied my scarf joint and the back side to the existing glass. Also tabbed my transom in with 3 layers of mat and woven roving. First layer is 3" wide, then 6" then 9".Then I used 2 layers of mat for the final layer. This should give me a 5/16 inch thick laminate. Hope its enough. I will also seal the whole transom with 2 layers of mat over everything. The stringer is floating and I guess I will use the same schedule as I did on the transom. Do you think that is enough??? Thanks

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

I'm no glassing expert thats why I followed what oops told me to use... You say mat and woven.... how many oz's 1.5oz mat? woven oz?

5/16" of glass is more that what was in the boat to begin with so I don't see a problem there.

I understand about the cloth not holding resin well as a waterproof... guess I'll lay up some csm and cloth over it.. I think with all the resin the has been saturated into the stringer tops,the Geo Cel caulk and a watertight deck I should be fine....Plus I don't plan on letting water sit in the boat or leave it uncovered to fill up with rain and snow.

Boats rot from neglect more than anything else IMO.

 

[infideltarget]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

I don't plan on letting water sit in the boat or leave it uncovered to fill up with rain and snow.

but...isnt that the only true way to tell if you did a decent job on your repair? to duplicate the issue that caused the problem, and see if the results are the same? sheesh...what kind of scientist ARE you? how will the rest of us ever know if you did it correctly? it is simply your OBLIGATION to the forums to let your boat sit, uncovered, neglected, for long periods of time to see if your work is good. heck...you might need to go out and pee in it once in a while just to make sure...

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Your a trip dude.....

 

[fat fanny]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Infidel you REALLY need to get home! Best wises and be safe..