Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

that's what I did on this patch using polyester resin. I wet out all 6 layers on a piece of plastic, and then brushed resin on the boat, put the patch on like a big bandaid and rolled out the patch with the plastic on top of it, and let it sit overnight with the plastic still on it. If I had worked a little harder, I could have gotten a prettier outcome, but I still had to grind it down smooth regardless. I rolled out quite a bit of extra resin to make the patch relatively lean, but still fully saturated.

I like that nice looking job.

Now how many layers did you lay up at a time and did you impose any type of weight compression or such upon these layers while in the cure out phase?

The whereabouts of this patch that i am needing to create really needs to be extra strong due to it's whereabouts when sitting on the boat trailer and so i do not need, neither do i want, any air voids contained within the layers. What did you do to prevent this from occurring?

I am concerned with polyester resins as for their shrinkage characteristics, i am not sure as to whether or not with a hole the size of mine (5" x 12") if that should even be a concern of mine. Not sure, never messed with much fiberglassing before.

I know i can do it however, not any worries there, just trying to obtain all the necessary information that i need before i begin the process.

Plus now i have this whole mental dilemma - debate if you will - going on trying to determine what system i need to use

Polyester Resins
West System epoxies
Vinyl Resins

I am still researching at present.

Thanks guys for all of your help/replies

Chris

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

I didn't re-read the entire post, but will address some the current questions.


The shrink issue, well, it isn't even the slightest concern, so forget about it.

While some people say epoxy is easier to use, it is in some ways, but only sort of.
If you do a sloppy job of prep work, then the extra bonding properties can help to overcome it, and in hot weather you can use a slow hardener to lengthen the gel time.

The problem is epoxy resin tends to drain out of the glass, and the longer it sits, the more it tends to drain out. When the resin drains out of the glass, the laminate is weak and needs to be redone. So the longer gel times can actually work against you. The longer gel times also slow the job down, this isn't always a problem on a DIY project though.

I know in the beginning you said you needed to do it all from the outside, but I think later you said you were going to cut an opening in the floor and then do it from both sides, (remember, I didn't re-read it). If you can get to the inside, then it will make no difference which resin you use, it will be plenty strong with even the cheapest stuff. If you can only get to the outside then it will make a slight difference, but only if you do a poor job.

 

[redfury]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

I laid up about a total of 6 layers in that patch. Granted, the smallest layer was about the size of an apricot and I used both 1708 and CSM in the patch.

I used an almost full sized piece for the first layer against the boat, and sandwiched the smaller pieces on top of that, graduating to the largest piece that spanned the entire patch. I laid this up on a piece of plastic on the work bench, peeling layers back and dumping resin in between each layer. That prevented the most air. Similar to getting syrup on your stack of pancakes. Pancakes are just bland cake without syrup!

I took the whole patch to the boat after I brushed some resin on the patch ( before I started saturating the layers ) and then slapped the "bandaid" on the hull and rolled out the excess resin with my laminating roller The smoother the plastic is, the nicer it comes out, so you have less to sand off later. I left the plastic on the patch over night.

I was worried initially about "cooking" the resin with such a heavy layer of glass, but I went out and touched the patch with the palm of my hand after 20 minutes and it wasn't hot to the touch. I was almost a little worried that I hadn't mixed the resin thoroughly enough! Well, it was plenty hard the next day and when I got to it 2 days later to sand it smooth with my 7 inch sander, it zipped off just fine, didn't clog up the paper very much at all. I just have to fair the patch out at this point.

Oh, and no compression. If the laminate is lean enough, it's going to bond well. The only compression was from rolling the air and excess resin out of it.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Hey guys you have been the biggest help to me. Ondarv thanks a million for easing my anxious thoughts concerning the shrinkage of polyester resins. I appreciate that so much.

I didn't think i had much to worry about in the arena of shrinkage with a hole the size of mine (5" x 12") but nonetheless i was overly concerned about this issue. Ondarv you have certainly eased my worries there, thanks. NOw i can move forward.

I appreciate also the info about the epoxy resins, yeah i have gathered enough information at this point to know that i do not want to mess with epoxy resins. I had considered west systems epoxy but now i am simply going to utilize some polyester resin for the patch.

And i will be opening up the deck from the interior and patching both sides of this hole.


Redfury thank you also bro, did you have any problem with the plastic adhering to the patch or were you simply able to peel it right off. Did you place any type of release agent on the plastic prior to developing the patch you created?

Also, you mentioned that you used but chopped stranded mat and 1708 biaxial cloth to make the patch that you made. Now in what manner did you lay those layers up?

I have considered 1.5 ounces of chopped strand mat to make my layers with and then add a piece of 1708 biaxial cloth laid over the patch on the outside of the hole, (bottom of the boat).

What do you guys think? Oh, by the way i understand uscomposites has for purchase all types of mats and cloths, i guess they are the best place to purchase my polyester resin, rollout tools and such from as well? Or do you have a better site in mind?

Just thought about this - -is there a specific type of chopped stranded mat that i need to use with polyester resins?

Thanks, Chris

 

[Kiwifisher]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Hi mate,

No disrespect intended here but if after 3 months of asking questions here on this thread and you still have'nt started the repair because you're not too sure on what to do, you should perhaps consider having it done professionally. My concern is that if you eventually do the repair yourself, will you be able to evaluate whether you've done a good or a poor repair job and if it will be safe or not.

There's no shame in being sure about your safety.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

US Composites has nice products.

FYI, their epoxy is also a bit thicker than West's stuff. That means it's harder to wet out with, but on the flip side it doesn't run down to puddle in your hull bottom as easily.

I usually use their "medium" speed stuff, and provided I mix a reasonable amount it usually starts to kick just as I'm finishing a half hour layup job in 70 degree temps.

Honestly, I've had more problems with runoff from poly resins than epoxy, because they tend to be thinner.

In very thick layups I tend to work wet on wet, about 6 layers at a time, and take breaks so the previous layers tack up, that way you avoid some problems with resin rich areas developing, plus it keeps earlier layers from cooking off later ones as they cure.

If you're still nervous about performing this repair yourself, the best thing to do is probably to try it. Make an attempt, do your best, then see if you like the results. If you think you can do better, try again.. you can always cut out your repair and start over.

There is no perfect combination of prep, technique, and materials that will guarantee a good result. Get some resin and cloth from US Composites and try making something simple around a mold, like a plastic box or something. See how it works, how it hardens, then give the boat work a shot.

Erik

 

[redfury]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Plastic on polyester won't stick...peels right off. I mixed way too much resin for that btw, I only needed to mix 100ml of resin.

When you get around to buying stuff to do this, get cheap 3" chip brushes, a cheap syringe that handles up to, but not more than 10ml/cc to measure out your catalyst. I got mine from a surplus store called Axman Surplus. You are going to measure out 1.4% by volume, so 100cc/ml is going to be 1.4 ml/cc

You can get the brushes and mixing cups from Walmart cheap...they are all going to be disposed of faster than you can use them.

If I could, I'd send you the resin and glass since I have some extra, but the post office frowns on sending flammables, so the best I could do is send you the glass. But, here's what you do. Go find a place that repairs boats and ask them if they'd sell you some scraps of glass and some resin ( bring your own clean seal-able container, like a clean pickle jar ). I bet they'd be willing to work with you on the premise that if you screw up the job so bad and find out you hate the work, that you will commission them to do the work instead. It's a win/win for them. They make a small sale, and potentially a larger profit down the road.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Hi mate,

No disrespect intended here but if after 3 months of asking questions here on this thread and you still have'nt started the repair because you're not too sure on what to do, you should perhaps consider having it done professionally. My concern is that if you eventually do the repair yourself, will you be able to evaluate whether you've done a good or a poor repair job and if it will be safe or not.

There's no shame in being sure about your safety.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

Kiwifisher, that isn't the reason i haven't worked on my boat. I have it sitting up on blocks and first it has been too hot to work in the midst of glass fibers while wearing tyvek suits during the doldrums of NC's summer humidities. So it is i have been awaiting the cooler months of September.

Secondly i have been extremely busy with my undergraduate research on the ecology of the Northern Bobwhite Quail (Colinus virginianus)for this fiscal year as well as multiple interstate flights to accomplish same.

My boat has been sitting there sound awaiting my schedule to settle down. Now that my scheduling has somewhat settled down i thought i would begin the work on it.

I am sorry if the time frame of my initial posting has you concerned as such that you would inquire regarding same with such absurd curiosities.

Take care, Chris

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

I have a project boat that is worked on every few months, then I change plans, do some more work, change plans...do more work...change pla...repeat as needed.

No need for time lines on some projects, it can turn them into work.

 

[Kiwifisher]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Kiwifisher, that isn't the reason i haven't worked on my boat. I have it sitting up on blocks and first it has been too hot to work in the midst of glass fibers while wearing tyvek suits during the doldrums of NC's summer humidities. So it is i have been awaiting the cooler months of September.

Secondly i have been extremely busy with my undergraduate research on the ecology of the Northern Bobwhite Quail (Colinus virginianus)for this fiscal year as well as multiple interstate flights to accomplish same.

My boat has been sitting there sound awaiting my schedule to settle down. Now that my scheduling has somewhat settled down i thought i would begin the work on it.

I am sorry if the time frame of my initial posting has you concerned as such that you would inquire regarding same with such absurd curiosities.

Take care, Chris

As I said in my original post, no disrespect intended. It was just the same questions being asked multiple times that had me thinking you might be a bit unsure. I'm glad your schedule has slowed down a bit to allow you some time for the important things in life, messing with boats! I'm following this thread with interest as I really want to see the end result and know which method you finally went with.

Peace brother.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Kiwifisher,

Not trying to ask the same questions, I think one would discover if the entirety of the thread was read that sometimes i have asked questions and haven't really gotten the response i desired to obtain. So, i attempted to re-word my question such that i might receive the answer i was looking.

Such as the one earlier whereby i was asking one in particular about the types of mat used with epoxy resins and received the reply of using waxed or unwaxed fibers. This reply was however directly related to working with epoxy resins such as west systems, not sure if there are various types of mat that may or may not be used with the polyester resins that i am going to more than likely be using.

In this world of complexities within technologies i just want to ensure that i obtain the right material so that i actually get a good bond, i understand there probably aren't many chemists up here on the forum.

However i do know there are many of you that have dealt with this 'fiberglass and resins' for quite some time, some longer than i have been around, commending you guys certainly not knocking you.

So that was primarily the reasoning behind the intense questioning: to ascertain answers to avoid ordering the wrong mat, mat weights and the appropriate polyester resins and to avoid any other hidden complexities that may be lurking in a field that i am not all that familiar with.

Thanks guys for your continued support and understanding,


Chris

 

[redfury]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

I have to do that myself from time to time. You know what you mean, you can understand what you typed, but the responses coming in at 180 degrees from what you were expecting, so you hit it from a different angle and try again.

Sometimes, I simply miss one of the questions asked. As far as CSM goes, or any of the supplies you decide to go with, the best resource is as simple as asking the supplier. Customer support at US composites is supposedly bar none, and my local glass supplier is/has been awesome helping me acquire the proper supplies for the task at hand.

The forum is a great guide, but your supplier is/should be your guru. I've found in life, that if you go into a place of business and ask questions, you get a better response if you can at least demonstrate a certain amount of knowledge on the subject at hand. With that, the pro's are almost always ready to talk shop to someone that can at least attempt to understand them.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Redfury thanks a million man! I do appreciate it bro, you got it, the understanding of what it is i was trying to accomplish.

Now, thank God for people like Oops. Oops i appreciate your help today over the phone all i needed was that technical data, now the repair is "Game On."

Thanks again.

Chris

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Guys, just be patient with me and give me a few weeks and i will have some photos added.

Right now, i am attempting to squeeze this repair into that acute space between my schooling and my deer hunting. You know i just have to obtain a couple hundred pounds of venison before gun season comes in. During gun season i find myself having to compete with disrespectful homo sapiens which enjoy dog hunting and running their blasted hounds across my property. uggghhh !!!...

On a serious note though i should be striking away at this repair very soon, i just have to gather my material now.

See you guys around and thanks, thanks, thanks for the help.

Chris

 

[oops!]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

hey bud.......just to further our conversation.....
three layers of 1708 bi axe is the same thickness of your hull.

so you should have a bump on the inside and be flush on the out side.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Gotcha oops! Thanks.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Redfury thanks a million man! I do appreciate it bro, you got it, the understanding of what it is i was trying to accomplish.

Now, thank God for people like Oops. Oops i appreciate your help today over the phone all i needed was that technical data, now the repair is "Game On."

Thanks again.

Chris

This Isnt really I-Oops.. Its kinda Iboats.. could you please Inform us All as to how your going to "game on" your repairs ? .. there are People that are in the same situation as you.. and could possibly be helped buy this technical data that was shared with you personally ...

YD.

PS. Thank God for people like Oops ?? Thank god for ALL that use this forum for our own personal developement and enrichment to do things for Ourselves/Yourselves.

PSS. Next time You might want to just PM him for the Personals m8..

PSSS. 3 layers of 1708 Isnt going to work bud.. 3 layers isnt 5/16". 3 layers of 1708 would be for INSIDE only.. The repair should be done glasswise in a matter of 24 hours if using poly ( Inside and out ) for a chem bond..

PSSSS. Your supplier is going to tell you what you need from questions thats in there SDS..not what you are personally working with ( They can tell when your on Tech support if your a Newb..or a Pro .. and guaranteed they will not Freely give you " DIY " new data of Anything ). I suggest when you order..ask them for SDS's on what your buying ( NICELY ) request.. you Might have more response out of them in the future. ( yes its Required that you have the MSDS sheets .. and they Have to provide you..but Repor Would help ) .

 

[redfury]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

I agree with YD, please document what you are doing with this gaping hole with pictures and all the technicals that you can provide. There are plenty of hulls out there with holes in them and to just toss up some cute pics and vague information won't really help anyone down the road when they are trying to find the answers that could obviously be found right here in this thread.

That's the great thing about all of our projects, so many different angles of approach in dealing with the same or similar problems. Transoms installed in different fashions, with different materials and different configurations. It's all great information for people new to boating to sift through, or to find our forums during a search for their specific problems.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Whoa!! Whoa!!! Goodness, didn't mean to disturb people simply because i commended a friend of mine openly for his willingness to help me when no one else would.

I tried through various postings on this thread to attempt to obtain a few details that i was seeking so that i might have all the knowledge i needed to begin with the project. All i received was the 'run around' literally.

Thus the reasoning for the rewording of my inquires. Not sure why someone would get so disturbed when i made an unbiased, courteous reply to a helpful individual. I just find myself distraught for the simple fact that select individuals want me to be detailed in the arena of posting helpful media for future seekers of like conditions when they themselves still have failed to render the answers i myself was seeking as the thread creator.

It seems to be rather preposterous for some statements that have been made such as "They can tell when your on Tech support if your a Newb..or a Pro ..".... i find this comment to not be only offensive to me and downgrading but rather absurd and simply not needed...

I have entered plenty of specialty shops throughout the years and it goes without saying i communicate just fine with the store representative's....

not sure of the personal attack against a select individual.. i personally didn't sign up for iboats to deal with drama, i simply wanted some answers and to meet some new people.

But once again thanks for those whom have helped and yes i do commend oops for taking the time to assist me in the capacity that he did. AS soon as i am able to, i will place details up here to assist future seekers of such.

left wondering...Chris

 

[redfury]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

I have no problems with you publicly thanking a member for taking the time out of his day to have a phone conversation with you. Oops! is that kind of guy . I think that kind of thing is warranted and helpful to those lurking the forums or visiting for the first time.

I only commented because there are many situations where someone posts about a problem and then we are left hanging without finding out the end result of the journey. I mean, who wants to read about a boat being rebuilt, follow it all the way to the point where the guy is going to hang the motor and then .....nothing.