An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

[tashasdaddy]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

my chart shows them gapped at .030, if you do a lot of slow, running, trolling, and idling, they recommend .040, to keep from fouling the plugs. the ones you have are fine for it.

 

[JamieScott]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

my chart shows them gapped at .030, if you do a lot of slow, running, trolling, and idling, they recommend .040, to keep from fouling the plugs. the ones you have are fine for it.

Thanks for the info. I will go with the .030 to start with and then on the next set I'll re-think once I know my most common usage.

Jamie

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Its gonna be a great motor, Jamie!

I'm putting a new cooler/seat in my boat today and decided to run my '69 Jonny 6hp kicker for a bit, just because I don't use it that much. After putting a trash can full of water under it, I closed the choke, pulled it once and it started right up! These are definately one of the best motors that OMC ever made!

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Its gonna be a great motor, Jamie!

I'm putting a new cooler/seat in my boat today and decided to run my '69 Jonny 6hp kicker for a bit, just because I don't use it that much. After putting a trash can full of water under it, I closed the choke, pulled it once and it started right up! These are definately one of the best motors that OMC ever made!

And just to think, his total cost for repairs is likely to be well under the $200 mark.......for the entire rig!!!! Service Manual Included!!! Unbelievable!!!!

I'll re-think once I know my most common usage.

Your most common usage for the first several months, no doubt, will be WIDE OPEN!!!.......

I'm hoping that it will be smoother next time when I can prime the bulb fully without the fear of petrol spirting out onto the engine.

Although repairing the leak was definitely a VERY wise decission, this will most likely not fix the carb related issue. However, I suppose it could have been sucking a little air into the system. That bulb will not stay hard once the outboard is running. It will soften a bit. The reason it gets hard is because your pressurizing the system with each squeeze of the bulb. And the lines will only hold so much fuel. Remember, fuel will not flow backwards through that bulb. Once it's in the lines, it's there. The only way out, should be through the carb. Once the outboard is started, it begins sucking fuel. (HINT: Remember that leak while priming that disappeared while running?) There's a difference. Don't get alarmed if it doesn't stay rock hard. It'll be somewhat firm, but not hard. I would be willing to bet that the needle was sticking open a bit and allowing fuel to escape through the carb and hence, flooding the engine. This is likely why it was so hard to initially start the outboard. Get that carb right, get it clean, rebuild it with a complete carb kit and a new float, and she'll pur like a kitten!!! You're only 26 hours away from pure enjoyment!!!!

I had a joke with some mates that it would be fun to have a challenge to see who could build a boat with some form of motor just from junk found in the council pickup.

Jokes on them!!! You've nearly succeded your dream of owning that boat to potter around in Jamie. How does it feel?.........

 

[JamieScott]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Ok guys - here's the latest update...

I've fixed the petrol leak by replacing the fuel filter cover. I then had a quick go at running it again in a bin of water. This time the bulb primed up properly as I had no worries about the leak!! After 3 pulls of the cord she fired into life so better than last time. The water runs through the tell tale and is warm so at least that section seems to be working. There was a lot of smoke however from the engine - I've read a few old posts from here and I see that running it in a bin you're going to get more smoke anyway but this was clouds of smoke from the exhaust. The motor wasn't running at idle either so I ran her dry of fuel and now for the carby rebuild... (Just a side note before I tell you about the carby) - as I primed the bulb to hard I saw some fuel run out of the front of the choke throat (I'm guessing that means that the float isn't cutting the fuel off as it should??) Also after running it the plugs were wet with fuel and there was a lot of oil residue in the water left in the trash can. Would this all be to do with too much fuel getting in through the carbs or do you think I may end up finding out I've got a problem with the piston rings???? I'm sure the first time I ran it there wasn't as much smoke!

Just before I wrote this I have stripped the carby off the motor and cleaned it out. The float had a bit of discolouration so that will need replaced. Also the float needle valve has a very slight ridge on the needle so again that will need to be replaced. I'm going to go down and get all the parts and gaskets in the morning or order them in if they don't have them.

Here's a few questions -

Do you think I should order the parts seperately or is it best to try to get a kit?? What's the difference between a rebuild kit and a repair kit? (Is it the same thing?) What parts normally come in such a kit?

The low speed needle looks fine to me but my question about it is should it have a needle sharp point on it or a very slightly flat point? I'm worried that I have flattened the point on it by screwing it in a bit too tight but don't know if it should be slightly flat or needle sharp?

I also think that when I last tested the motor just before taking the carby off I don't think I had screwed the low speed needle in as far as I should have. I only realised this when taking the carby off and I had a fiddle with it. I read in my manual that if the low speed adjustment is too rich this could cause the plugs to be wet???

Jay - thanks again for the enouragement to keep going! I'm excited about the day I can pull it once to start it up and that these are good motors!

Alan - It felt really good to get the motor running and pumping water but the smoke scared me a bit so I will hold off getting too excited until I get the carby redone and try it again. I just hope that I don't have to do the piston rings but then again it's all going to be a steep learning curve so worth it in the end for the experience that I'll gain. The joke will be on my mates though if I can pull it off and get it up and running and on the boat in the water!

Will update when I know more!

Jamie

 

[Willyclay]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Great work! Glad you are seeing positive results from your efforts. Yes, the wet plugs are from a fuel mixture that is too rich. However, that may be a combination of incorrect low speed adjustment, leaking inlet needle valve/seat and a fuel saturated float. The old floats were cork sealed with varnish that tended to get soaked with fuel and sink in the bowl which floods the motor. The new carburator rebuild kits should come with a new-style plastic foam float. If you order a kit, make sure it includes the float. My advice is to rebuild the carb before you venture out on the water. It needs to idle correctly in your barrel. FYI, I had to clean the carb on one of my Johnsons three times before I got it to idle properly. It only takes a tiny bit of dirt or trash to muck things up. The carb should be stripped and soaked in cleaner for 24 hours to help insure total cleanliness. After the rebuild, preventative maintenance will help to keep it right for many years. Good luck!

 

[Harker]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Most outboards that haven't been run in a while will smoke like crazy for a bit..also, running in a barrel will look like lots more smoke. If you just ran it at idle and shut it off, you will have wet plugs, the motor needs to be good and warm for the gas to vaporize correctly. I'd get a rebuild kit WITH the float. The kit is cheaper than ala-cart and you will have all new stuff in there so you don't get it back together and find you need some other penny item. Not sure on the needle for that, most I have seem have been pretty pointy. The gas coming out may have just been forced by over gorrilla gripping the bulb. Get the carb rebuilt and get a can of Sea Foam if you have it down under and decarb it...you think it smokes now, wait till the de carb! Good luck!

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

I recommend that you buy the carb rebuild kit. It will have all of the items that you need and it is more cost effective to just get it all at once.

While low speed needle valves are generally "pointy" at the end, I would be more concered with the condition of the taper that leads to the "pointy part." If you overtightened the valve when screwing it in to get a benchmark position for later backing it out, the taper will have an indented ring around its circumference. If so, it will be hard to adjust the low speed fuel flow properly. If there is no indentation, you should be ok.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

I recommend that you buy the carb rebuild kit. It will have all of the items that you need and it is more cost effective to just get it all at once.

While low speed needle valves are generally "pointy" at the end, I would be more concered with the condition of the taper that leads to the "pointy part." If you overtightened the valve when screwing it in to get a benchmark position for later backing it out, the taper will have an indented ring around its circumference. If so, it will be hard to adjust the low speed fuel flow properly. If there is no indentation, you should be ok.

I agree whole heartedly with Jay on this. You will need to look very closely, when inspecting the needle, to see this indentation. Do yourself a favor, while you have this carb apart, and follow the instructions in this thread to the letter........

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=244013

If you don't have access to an air compressor, there are cans of compressed air in the electronics department of your local K-Mart. While this is not necessarily the ideal method, you have to make due with what you have available to you. If you have an auto parts store available, purchase the gallon size can of carb cleaner, with a dipping basket inside, to soak the carb and smaller pieces within. You'll be glad you did. And it will likely save you from having to pull this thing apart again later. It's hard telling how long your outboard has sat, as mentioned earlier, so be thinking of that SeaFoam while your at the parts store getting carb parts, and purchase some.

What's the difference between a rebuild kit and a repair kit? (Is it the same thing?) What parts normally come in such a kit?

They're the same thing. Just be sure to get the complete carb kit with the float. This will normally consist of most everything you need to completely rebuild the carb with all new seals, needle, seat, and of course the float. Take your time in cleaning the carb too. You know the old saying, "Do it once, do it right, do it wrong, do it twice!" So.....take your time. There's no rush. And assuming the low speed needle isn't damaged, always remember to lightly seat that needle when the manual call for this......... ...... I would imagine that the needle has a somewhat rounded (or at least not a needle-sharp) point to it. If it were needle sharp before, you'd likely see a bend in the tip of the needle. I would imagine your going to be fine if you can't see this crook, or bend, in the very tip end of the needle.

Would this all be to do with too much fuel getting in through the carbs or do you think I may end up finding out I've got a problem with the piston rings????

If you had a problem with the piston rings, your initial compression test would have indicated this. Your at 70psi on both cylinders. Your fine!!!! The decarb will likely free those rings a bit and tip these numbers up a bit. Once you get her running correctly, do the decarb, and re-check your compression. You might be surprised at what you will find!!! I'd say your hunch about the float and needle was on the right track.

Here's another thread that you should read. Very informative!!!!!..............

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167352


Your ALMOST home Jamie!!! Hang in there!!!! Good luck to ya!!!.............. ALAN

 

[JamieScott]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Hello there

So - the quest to get this motor back running is nearly over! I've rebuilt the Carby with lots of help from the sections on these forums - I replaced the inlet needle valve and seat, all the gaskets and the float. Earlier tonight was the big test and I rigged it up in a bin again outside. This time it ran pretty good really. The smoke reduced down to what I would imagine is a normal amount after a couple of minutes and it seems to run well in forward and reverse.

My question is about the low speed needle adjustment. I've read my OMC manual and a couple of books from the library and also the great section on here which states

"(Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)
(J. Reeves)

Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running.

Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting."

Should this adjustment be done in forward gear or in neutral? I've read all I can about it and it's not clear as to that. (I think it should be done in forward gear??)
Also is the idea of the low speed setting that in forward gear (if that's how you set it?) the engine should run at the lowest speed setting without stalling once you've got it right?
So once the needle is seated and then backed off 1 1/2 turns you start adjusting it by screwing the low speed needle in to make the mixture leaner bit by bit until you have got the revs to the lowest point possible and the motor starts to kick back/stall then you bring it back about 1/4 of a turn so it sounds smooth.
(I hope that makes sense?)

I'm still not sure either if my low speed needle has been damaged or not. I've done my best to take a close up picture of it which is attached. I've looked in my manual to see what it should look like. My question is that half way down the silver part of the unit there's a very distinct ring - you can see what I mean in the photo. So distinct that I think it's the way it's designed. As I have no idea what it should look like then I don't know if this is damaged by overseating. If someone knows then please let me know.

The final thing I have to do now is replace the gasket for the thermostat cover. I took the thermostat out to check it (out of curiosity) and found I had to give it a good clean as it was a bit chalky. I then put it back together with the old gasket as I didn't have a chance to get another one yet. When I ran the motor tonight it was dripping a bit from the thermostat cover gasket (I thought it might). I'm going to take the thermostat back out anyway to test it in water on the stove to check it's opening at the correct temp. I think it is working though as the tell tale water is not hot and the engine is not too hot to touch for a few seconds while its running. The tell tale water was pretty cool however. Every now and again it felt tepid but most of the time reasonably cool. Is this normal or should it be tepid constantly??? (remember I've never even run an outboard before I started this project)

So - almost ready to get that boat out on the water! I still need to patch the boat in a couple of places (I've been to busy with the outboard!).

Thanks again guys

Jamie

 

[Harker]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

That needle looks fine to me..but I've never seen one for that specific motor. I'm thinking carb adjustments are made while tied to the dock in forward gear. Make sure the motor is warmed up good to operating temp before turning the screw and let it go for 20-30 seconds before turning it again..it takes a bit to notice the change. The ideal setting will be between where it floods out (rich) and sputters/coughs (lean). If in doubt, make it a bit rich. Sounds like you are very lucky with the find.

 

[JamieScott]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

That needle looks fine to me..but I've never seen one for that specific motor. I'm thinking carb adjustments are made while tied to the dock in forward gear. Make sure the motor is warmed up good to operating temp before turning the screw and let it go for 20-30 seconds before turning it again..it takes a bit to notice the change. The ideal setting will be between where it floods out (rich) and sputters/coughs (lean). If in doubt, make it a bit rich. Sounds like you are very lucky with the find.

Thanks Harker
Can you do the adjustment in a garbage bin of water? That should be the same as at the dock on the boat??

So first you make it as lean as possible and then back it out to make it slightly richer so it sounds smooth?

I'm lucky with the find as it was a free unit but then it's cost a bit in parts as they're slightly more expensive over here. I think all up it's cost me about $200 US in parts and then $110 for the fuel tank and line. Some of that is things that I will use in the future like molly lube, gearbox oil and thread locker sealant - also a motor with all these new bits on. Finally it's taught me so much about outboards that I would never have learned had I not had these bits to fix. I've loved doing it and I'm glad that I decided to pick it up that day. I must say though that without this forum I think I would have been scared off the project. I've had so much help and encouragement on here.

Nearly there - I aim to patch the boat this week and then it's out on the water.

Jamie

 

[dimock44]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Ah Yes You have learned the first lesson in boating. Just think if you had bought that motor, like so many of us had and then spent that on it. Best news is your addicted and are a future DIY'ER in the wonderful world of boating. I my self would rather throw away a motor than take it to a shyster to repair . Well done and keep us posted

 

[samo_ott]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Throw away an engine? Throw it my way!

 

[Harker]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Lesson.....no such thing as "free outboard motor"...or boat. Doing the carb in a barrel isn't like doing it on a boat in the water. The barrel won't give it any resistance. You can get it close in the barrel and then fine tune it when you get her going on the water. I usually go rich first and then lean then in between. I don't think it matters much as long as 1 1/2 turns isn't already lean.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

I don't know guys............. I am under the assumption that these settings need to be made while the outboard is in neutral. Personally, I would like to have some back pressure on the outboard while fine tuning the carb as well. The idle speed should be set to the factory specifications once the carb is properly adjusted. Jamie, I'd recommend you sending OBJ a personal message and ask for clarification on his part concerning the FAQ's topic. (Not being disrespectful of the view of others here. I'm sure these guys are good.) You might also request that he update the FAQ's topic to clarify for others as well. I'm sure he will appreciate your feedback. Too, he's probably forgotten more than I will ever know about this issue. That's why I recommend you PM'ing him, or at least directing him to your thread. I'd be curious as to his input on the matter as I'm sure others would too. That carb provides the life blood for your outboard......... LUBRICATION ..... Take the adjustments very seriously and don't second guess. Don't you hate it when you get this close?.................

Nearly there - I aim to patch the boat this week and then it's out on the water.

Take a few photo's to share!!! I'd love to see it under way!!!

I think all up it's cost me about $200 US in parts and then $110 for the fuel tank and line. Some of that is things that I will use in the future like molly lube, gearbox oil and thread locker sealant - also a motor with all these new bits on. Finally it's taught me so much about outboards that I would never have learned had I not had these bits to fix.

So you spent $310 US...... Look at the money you'll save with future expenses, no matter what outboard you might have later. If you want to know how much money you have saved yourself, call a local marine shop and ask what they would charge you for a carb rebuild and water pump exchange. You'll likely get scared to death!!! I don't know, but $310 dollars sounds pretty darn good for the education you've recieved?? Not to mention a free "rig" for completing the course, huh? You did good, or should I say EXCELLENT!!!!.......... ........ That first quiet afternoon you get to spend on the water will make all your time and efforts worth every penny spent.

I took the thermostat out to check it (out of curiosity) and found I had to give it a good clean as it was a bit chalky.

This chalky substance you are reffering to are hard water deposits and/or salt. If your seeing it in the thermostat housing, imagine what the small water passages look like. That SaltAway would be on my short list of things to do. Maybe others here, who are in the know, can give you some feedback on flushing these cooling passages. Be absolutely certain you can lay your hand on the heads for a long time with the motor running. Count how many seconds you can hold it there, before having to remove your hand, and report back. Sounds like you might be fine, I just want to make certain your not running too hot. It'd probably be best to do this on the water, but the tank will suffice for now. You can check again later when you get on the water, if need be. Let the outboard idle for a while so as to get up to normal opperating temperature prior to checking. Just be sure to constantly check the temperature and shut it down should it become too hot to hold your hand there for more than 3-5 seconds. My guess is that you should be able to hold it there for quite some time. If it's not cooling properly, you'll know it. Best of luck to ya Jamie!!! ......... ;-)

 

[Willyclay]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

While waiting patiently on your "After-Action Report" from last weekend's planned outing with your "new boat and motor", I thought I would try and help you with your earlier question regarding the low speed needle and whether or not it is worn/damaged. I pulled the LS needle on my 1973 Evinrude 6HP Fisherman which has very low hours and runs great. The first thing to report is my needle looks vastly different than yours. It is ALL brass and does not have any "silver parts". However, it DOES have a blunt tip like yours which makes me think that is correct and undamaged. Also, mine does NOT have a groove or ring in the tapered section which makes me want to agree with you that yours has been seated too hard. Hopefully, yours runs well and none of this matters. Good luck!

 

[mikesea]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

Pricy for a tank and line I think.But you did well.$300 for a boat and motor.Now you get to buy fishing gear,safty equipt.$$$$ and dont forget to add more beer to the budget.Oh and a little shopping $$$$ for the little woman while you fish with your mates.

 

[Harker]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

After going back a bunch of pages to see how it's going, I thought I'd bump it up and hopefully get a report.

 

[JamieScott]

Re: An outboard from the Garbage - but will it run again?

OK - firstly BIG apologies for the lack of updates on this project!

In my defence however it has only been this morning that I've actually managed to finally get the motor on the boat and get it into the water.

Another long update but for those of you who are interested it will fill you in on the story...

The reason for this delay has been that whilst I was getting carried away with the repairs to the motor I overlooked the repairs that I needed to make to the inflatable (blimpy - I think that's what you guys would call it!). The blimpy also came from the half yearly council - larger household items pickup. I described at the start of this post; that out in OZ you are allowed to put out your unwanted items about twice a year. It's always fascinating to see what people throw away.

The blimpy has three separate inflatable chambers (front and two sides). The front section had no leaks but on the back sections one side had about 3 leaks and the other about 4. I had previously brought a patch/repair kit to do the job but when I went to use it on the boat I found that the patches wouldn't take, much to my dismay! (It's not easy to test an outboard on a boat that sinks!!).

To get a more expensive repair kit it was going to cost me about $100 and the boat is pretty worn out so I have been reluctant to pay out for one as it may not be worth it in the long run. In a conversation with my Dad who lives in Scotland he told me that he uses some stuff called Aquaseal to repair rubber gum boots which comes in a tube and created a Urethane (spelling??) layer when you spread it on. It costs about $15 for a tube so he posted me some and two days ago I finally got the time to make the repairs. 24 hours later and this morning to be exact I pumped it up and eureka - it's fixed the leaks!!! So with the help of our neighbours - who've probably thought I was mad from the offset of this project - we wheeled the blimpy down the road to the beach.

Here's the good news - pulled the choke out and set the revs in the right place - primed her - pulled the cord and she started up no problems. One of my friends and I jumped in and off we went!!! On the water I set the low speed mixture so it was running well and then we went on a bit of a blast around the bay. I kept checking the tell tale jet to make sure it wasn't overheating - no overheating - she runs great!!

I wasn't going to tell you this bit but here's a bit of a laugh at the novice boater... We'd picked up another one of my friends/neighbours from the beach and had just done a bit of a blast around the bay heading back to the beach when suddenly the outboard stopped. No coughing or spluttering just died! It almost seemed as if it had seized up the suddenness of it stopping. Sure enough when I went to pull the starter cord the motor was completely seized!!!! Our excitement and bravado was abruptly ended in this sad event. I had images in my head of the next few weeks spent with me taking the head apart and rebuilding the engine. It was all too good to be true! We got the oars out and were drawing lots as to who would row back. I tried to tilt the engine back up to keep it from dragging in the water and found it wouldn?t budge. I leaned over the back to take a look and see why it wouldn?t lift up when I saw the rope from the front of the boat had managed to get caught in the prop! We got it untangled and problem solved! In our haste and excitement we had learned our first and valuable lesson in boating about keeping that rope out of the water.

I finish this update by thanking all of you for your help over the past few months. It?s been great to discover the iboats forum and get the help that I needed to go ahead with this project ? you?ve gotta love the internet!

I can now answer my own question ?

?An outboard from the garbage ? with the guys from iboats involved of course it will run again!?

We took some video footage and photos of the launch and I will get the photos uploaded on here. I?ll also post the video onto Youtube and post the link so you can see her in action.

Thanks SO much for your help and advice!!

Jamie