Bad gas?

[h2ocwilly]

I got a I/O that sat for about 8 months. It's now clogging up the fuel filter screen at the carb every other time we go out. I replaced the filter/water seperator which did have some crap in it as well as a little water. Then I looked down in the tank and even sucked up some gas from the bottom which seemed to be clear. The stuff I'm pulling out of the screen at the carb looks like granulated varnish and after it evaporates it turns into a dust/sand like material. Is it possible the fuel is breaking down? I don't want to just replace the fuel without knowing what the real cause is because then what do I do with the 50+ gallons of old fuel? Any suggestions?

 

[dubs283]

Re: Bad gas?

after it evaporates it turns into a dust/sand like material

that is most likely corn from the ethanol that is in the fuel

your best bet is to siphon out as much of the old fuel as you can and put it in your car

then fill up with non-oxy gasoline and change the filters again until there is no clogging/runnability issues

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Bad gas?

8 months does not "Old" gas make.

Old gas does not turn into granulated varnish.
You state that the gas in the tank is clear.
And anything in the tank will be stopped by the filter/seperator.

If you have crud at the Carb, it must have originated AFTER the filter/seperator.
Posibily a fuel line breaking down.
Or fuel pump gasket problems.

Collect all the Dust/Sand material you can.
Squirt some carb cleaner on it. (Just a little!)
If it does not dissolve, it was never part of the gas.
If it does dissolve, pour a can of "Seaform" in the tank and go run the tank low.

We need more details.
Boat? Engine?, Year?, Tank Material? Type of Hoses?
Tell all, and be specific.

Also a little confused...
If you keep "... clogging up the fuel filter screen at the carb every other time (you) go out"...
How many time have you gone out and still have 50 gallons of 8 month old fuel remaining?

 

[dubs283]

Re: Bad gas?

8 months does not "Old" gas make.

you're right

it only takes ethanol about two weeks to go bad, i.e. phase separation begins

 

[Pete104]

Re: Bad gas?

So where can you buy "non-oxy" if you are in metro area?

 

[dubs283]

Re: Bad gas?

google non-oxy gas for your area/state - its around

at one time someone had posted a list on that had non-oxy gas sellers listed by state

there are many non-oxy gas sellers in the metro area i live in, and i live in a highly liberal/restricted metro area

 

[h2ocwilly]

Re: Bad gas?

Uncle Willie the Boat is a 1982 Formula Thunderbird with a 260 Mercruiser, don't know the serial # off the top of my head. Because this was more about fuel I didn't think that data would be that important. As for volume of fuel it has a 100 gal tank that was 3/4+ full. We've only been using the boat for crabbing so short trips therefore slow fuel consumption. All of the fuel lines are new including the fuel pump and its an aluminum tank. The ethanol was something I wondered about but I can't remember where we filled it last before its long nap. Very strange, which is why I posted this. I guess I will just continue doing what I'm doing till I burn all this fuel, its just a pain in the ***. I can't burn any of this stuff in any of my cars because they all require 92+. Thank you all for your input. I will look for non-oxy gas in the meantime.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Bad gas?

that is most likely corn from the ethanol that is in the fuel

I...I can't....:facepalm:

your best bet is to siphon out as much of the old fuel as you can and put it in your car

If the gas is making your boat malfunction DON'T PUT IT IN YOUR VEHICLE!

then fill up with non-oxy gasoline and change the filters again until there is no clogging/runnability issues

There ya go!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Bad gas?

I got a I/O that sat for about 8 months. It's now clogging up the fuel filter screen at the carb every other time we go out. I replaced the filter/water separator which did have some crap in it as well as a little water. Then I looked down in the tank and even sucked up some gas from the bottom which seemed to be clear. The stuff I'm pulling out of the screen at the carb looks like granulated varnish and after it evaporates it turns into a dust/sand like material. Is it possible the fuel is breaking down? I don't want to just replace the fuel without knowing what the real cause is because then what do I do with the 50+ gallons of old fuel? Any suggestions?

From what you've said here you really have no idea how old the gas may be but I suspect that what is in order is starting from scratch..... ditch ALL of the questionable fuel.... burn it on a small bonfire or look in the yellow pages for a place that recycles chemicals. Then put 10 gallons or so of fresh gas in (don't FILL the tank until you have the problem fixed), change the filter, and rebuild the carb. Any fuel lines are also suspect as they can have deposits on the inside without being old or deteriorated. Use any gas you want... ethanol, while not preferred, is NOT the devil. Keep it dry and reasonably fresh and you should have no problems.
You can also run a portable tank for testing and hook it up quite easily the the existing filter.

that is most likely corn from the ethanol that is in the fuel

your best bet is to siphon out as much of the old fuel as you can and put it in your car

then fill up with non-oxy gasoline and change the filters again until there is no clogging/runability issues

There is no corn in ethanol..... that's just silly!

If the fuel is bad for the boat it's bad for the car too!

fresh gas and filters will not fix a cruddy carb

you're right

it only takes ethanol about two weeks to go bad, i.e. phase separation begins

Actually phase separation can occur in just a couple minutes but that still isn't "old" gas. If there is no water in the tank there will never be phase separation. Water in the tank comes from various sources but if the fuel is all clear then phase separation is not an issue. water and ethanol mixed looks like skim milk. not clear

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Bad gas?

From what you've said here you really have no idea how old the gas may be but I suspect that what is in order is starting from scratch..... ditch ALL of the questionable fuel.... burn it on a small bonfire or look in the yellow pages for a place that recycles chemicals. Then put 10 gallons or so of fresh gas in (don't FILL the tank until you have the problem fixed), change the filter, and rebuild the carb. Any fuel lines are also suspect as they can have deposits on the inside without being old or deteriorated. Use any gas you want... ethanol, while not preferred, is NOT the devil. Keep it dry and reasonably fresh and you should have no problems.
You can also run a portable tank for testing and hook it up quite easily the the existing filter.



There is no corn in ethanol..... that's just silly!

If the fuel is bad for the boat it's bad for the car too!

fresh gas and filters will not fix a cruddy carb



Actually phase separation can occur in just a couple minutes but that still isn't "old" gas. If there is no water in the tank there will never be phase separation. Water in the tank comes from various sources but if the fuel is all clear then phase separation is not an issue. water and ethanol mixed looks like skim milk. not clear

Hook up an external tank with fresh fuel and see if it runs better then you will know if it is fuel or not.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Bad gas?

There is no corn in ethanol..... that's just silly!

what do you think ethanol is made from??

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Bad gas?

what do you think ethanol is made from??

In this country, it would be corn of course....

And of course you do realize that the ethanol produced by the corn is extracted via distillation (they don't add corn kernels directly to the gas), right?


The junk he is seeing in his filters is most likely bits of varnish, and/or rust, and/or aluminum oxide (white rust). I have found that junk present in my carbs long before that evil ethanol was around to be the "cause" of every single fuel system problem.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Bad gas?

i know how ethanol is made

i know that there are no always and there are no nevers

i know that is not impossible for pieces of corn to "contaminate" ethanol

i know that ethanol producers produce as much ethanol as they can as fast as they can as long as they are subsidized by the government to do so

i know that humans make ethanol and humans make mistakes

i know what happens in fuel systems that are not designed to have ethanol used in them, especially when humans put $2.00/gallon E-85 in thier boats becuase what the hey, were just boating for today and all the other crap for boating is way overpriced so i'm gonna save money on fuel

i know what corn pieces look like in carb filters when the engine runs so poorly it ends up in front of my workbench

i also know that ethanol is one of the biggest wastes of time and money people have come up with, aside from creating a few jobs, there is no advantage to using ethanol, ever

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Bad gas?

Last time I heard. Ethanol is a VERY STRONG solvent & that is what caused all the screwed up engines when they first pumped it into everything. It dissolved all the crap in everything including refineries ,storage tanks, tanker trucks & ran it thru that thing called a filter in the inlets of carburators..

We are now back to gasoline without Ethanol & mileage is way up by 10 to 20%. depending who you buy from. I have 6 cans of Seafoam.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Bad gas?

LOL I just HATE it when a bunch of corn EVAPORATES so that it can be condensed into the alcohol that will then carry the corn through several filters in the plant and be pumped into a tanker and into a rail car and then pumped into a holding tank before passing through more filters and being blended with gasoline, then back into the tanker and drained into in ground holding tanks and filtered again as it's pumped into my tank and filtered once again as it is pumped into my carb only to have the CORN FALL OUT OF THE FUEL AND FOUL MY CARB!!!!!!!
DAMMIT THAT MAKES ME MAD!!!!

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Bad gas?

You must consider that the essential spirit of the corn remains within the alcohol.
And no amount of filtering can remove it.
This spiritual essence always want to return to its source.
That is why the achohol will revert back into corn.

The process can be explained easily under the science of Holistic Chemistry.

 

[Outsider]

Re: Bad gas?

the Boat is a 1982 Formula Thunderbird with a 260 Mercruiser,

Replace all your fuel hoses downstream from your separator. I once spent over a thousand to find out ethanol will eventually dissolve hoses from the inside, and the residue in the carbs looks like fine gray sand ... :facepalm:

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Bad gas?

the Boat is a 1982 Formula Thunderbird with a 260 Mercruiser,

Replace all your fuel hoses downstream from your separator. I once spent over a thousand to find out ethanol will eventually dissolve hoses from the inside, and the residue in the carbs looks like fine gray sand ... :facepalm:

+++1 ^^^

Old gas does not turn into granulated varnish.
You state that the gas in the tank is clear.
And anything in the tank will be stopped by the filter/seperator.

If you have crud at the Carb, it must have originated AFTER the filter/seperator.
Posibily a fuel line breaking down.
Or fuel pump gasket problems.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Bad gas?

the Boat is a 1982 Formula Thunderbird with a 260 Mercruiser,

Replace all your fuel hoses downstream from your separator. I once spent over a thousand to find out ethanol will eventually dissolve hoses from the inside, and the residue in the carbs looks like fine gray sand ... :facepalm:

I fully agree with this.... ^^^^

This boat has an elderly fuel system with components full of varnish that are not tolerant to ethanol. We can go round and round all we want about how horrible ethanol in fuel is, but the fact remains that for the foreseeable future it is here to stay. You can either embrace this and join the ranks of millions of others who have upgraded their fuel systems, and have not had a problem since. Or you can consider it the bane of the earth, don't bother with replacing old components that probably need to be replaced anyway, travel miles out of your way to purchase fuel with out it, and curse it for every single neglected fuel system problem that you see.

As far as the whole process of making ethanol is concerned, I find it incredibly hard to believe that corn, which has been decomposed by enzymes into simple sugars, which has then been fermented by yeast that has turned those simple sugars into alcohols and CO2, which is then in turn evaporated and goes through the process that Smokeonthewater detailed, is going to suddenly perform a magic trick and transform back into corn....

Under the same theory one could argue that the crude portion of gasoline (which I would roughly estimate makes up at least 80% of what you pump in the tank) that has decomposed in the earth for millions of years, then was distilled and filtered several times has suddenly performed a magic trick and the bits and pieces inside the OP's carburetor is plant matter and dinosaurs from a million years ago....


If this whole theory is truly the case, then the poor suckers down in Brazil must be bumming because their fuel tanks, fuel lines, injectors or carburetors are filled with sugar cane, and have been for decades....

 

[dubs283]

Re: Bad gas?

unfortunately fuel ethanol production in the us and probably brazil is not regulated by the fda or any other food quality program/facility

corn fuel ethanol producers in an effort to use every available ingredient in the process for other products such as livestock feed (corn based), corn meal (used for livestock feed production), and corn starch (also for livestock)...see a pattern here??

now in an attempt to produce as much end product as possible, at least four different products, one being a liquid (ethanol) the others solids, could you at least say that there is a possiblity of corn kernel pieces found in ethanol, probably not scince you feel every ethanol producer in the us follows strict guidlines for product quality - unfortunatly haste makes waste and with the government dollars rolling in, who wants to stop production??

now i'm not saying every fuel tank in america or elsewhere is ladened with corn pieces, i'm saying that on more than one occasion i have found corn pieces in carb filters - plastic fuel tanks full of E-85, yes it does happen

also a vast majority of mercruiser engines in use today are not designed to use ethanol fuels, so if you want one less issue to deal with fuelwise, yes use non-oxy gas

now E-15 which will soon become the standard regular unleaded gasoline at every major fuel station nationwide is an issue, have you read the merc service bulletins on that??