banshee transom and likely stringers

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

It's not Paint, it's Gelcoat and it depends on how big the area is. You may need to get a preval sprayer and a quart of Gelcoat and spray 3-4 coats of gelcoat over the worn area. Gelcoat needs to be applied about the thickness of a penney for it to be effective.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

So i havent posted or worked on the boat in sometime been kinda busy again. So i was watching a few fiberglass videos and one question i do have is:

when im making peanut butter is it very important to have the chop strands and cabosil or is cabosil ok on its own.

Also the peanut butter i use for filling my hole is mixed the same as the peanut butter for gluing the transom in and coving the fillets etc
basically it kinda one set of ingredients for peanut butter and more or less the consistency that changes.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

Cabosil alone makes a filler, not particularly STRONG, but pretty good FILLER for smallish holes, large nicks & scrapes

Adding 1/4" chopped strand (you can cut up your own using the scraps of glass you got laying around) makes the PB 'Hairy' and it's a structural filler, very strong & what you'd want for bedding & filleting.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

so if i was to use saw dust ground up fine and and broken up csm that would be good enough to fill the hole i created. i dont need much to fill it and i didn't get any fillers yet because i wasn't expecting to use then yet. i just got csm and resin for water proofing my wood the fillers and such were going to be in the next order

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

I'm @my phone, post a pix & dimension of the hole. But NO NEVER saw dust w poly resin, and for me it would have to be someplace that would never get wet to use saw dust with epoxy.

The chop strand pieces also make it less prone the sagging out as it cures because the mix is thicker the cabosil & resin alone. Mix too much of any filler material w too little resin, makes a weak bond to what your filling & a very weak bond to itself

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

JB there is pics of the hole on page #5 post #123 not the greatest pics but they show it

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

You're gunna need the Hairy PB to do the repair on the hole.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

so saw dust ground up fine isnt similar to wood flour and would not be suitable for the repair on the hole with chopped strands as well.

GWPSR made mention that he was using saw dust ground up for filler thats the only reason i asked along with the fact that i didnt get any yet and wont need much to repair that hole.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

Saw dust can be used as a thickening agent for filleting but IMHO NOT for structural repairs such as hole repairs. Polyester resin does not have any binding agents in the chemical mix therefore it needs something to hold it together. If you mix it alone or with just a thickening agent, when it cure it becomes brittle and when it flexes it will crack and break. Introducing fibers into the mix allows the resin to bind together and makes for a much stronger and long lasting repair. I know you want to hurry up and get things done but you should wait until the proper materials arrive and do the repairs properly. Your boat will be much better off in the long run.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

so saw dust ground up fine isnt similar to wood flour and would not be suitable for the repair on the hole with chopped strands as well.

GWPSR made mention that he was using saw dust ground up for filler thats the only reason i asked along with the fact that i didnt get any yet and wont need much to repair that hole.

As I noted in GWPSR's thread, he's using epoxy, not polyester resin.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

jb point taken i didnt catch that he was using epoxy my bad sorry

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

Banshee! It's been awhile since you've posted any pics of your "progress"! While most of us on iboats can read, we prefer pictures to accompany the written word?!

So, it "sounds" like you're making progress...I'm from Missouri, show me!

I'm just joking around...no seriously, you need to post pics...kidding...or am I?

~Brett

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

haha
well you see my boat is at my buddies place and i have to travel there (only about 20 minutes from home) and the last couple weeks have been busy. and now that im pretty well over the grinding stage there isnt alot of sense going after work to spend an hour and half so im trying to go there on weekends but i work every other Saturday so with winter coming and Christmas and work and being at home and sleeping and well you see whee im going lol

i will get more pics im hoping this weekend.

maybe i should put a live feed in the garage lol

I know excuses excuses lmao

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

maybe i should put a live feed in the garage lol

I know excuses excuses lmao

Now we're talking!!

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

well we got some time to spend on the boat today. Got the transom cut out and pretty much fitted. not as perfect as i imagined but that was due our not thinking right. when we cut the transom we cut it straight instead of on an angle to allow for the lean of the transom. but we managed to get it to fit pretty good. Some spots have a pretty good gap between the transom and and the hull especially on the side.

hoping to lay a few layers of csm where the gaps are and it will also stiffen the hull.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

Has anyone ever tried laying blue insulation foam between the stringers and then pouring expandable foam on top of the blue foam to take up the gaps and stiffen the deck up.

it would also hopefully push the blue foam down to the hull as well if it wasn't sitting completely flat.

I have two reasons to try this.

1) blue foam would be cheaper to put in rather than just pourable foam by itself (basically smaller area to fill)

2) the blue foam inst supposed to be as absorbent when water gets to it and if the pourable foam is on top then it would theoretically never get water around it. the majority of the foam that was in my boat was completely saturated on the bottom and dry on top.

I have to cavities at the back between the hull and transom that were full of foam i would likely just fill those with pourable.

but there was no foam in between the stringers and i feel that if i had foam there then there would be much less chance of sinking if i was too take on water or the bilge quit when it was docked ect.

just a thought i had today when i was contemplating 50 steps ahead of where i am current lol.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

No worries on the transom gaps, that is what the PB is for...think of it as tile setting compound that is used to raise all the tiles to an even level, some places you use a little more, some less...
Good looking wood work so far...btw...

As to using the blue/pink foam, Yes, current thinking puts it a notch above the expanding foam as to being much more resistant to water absorption.
The actual unknown/unproven fact remains the actual floatation value of it. At least to me...I think it is closer to a structural type foam due to the fact that it is much denser, which translates to less trapped air...

Another point is whether or not it meets the fuel absorption standard set out by the Coast Guard...I think I have read somewhere that it does, but should be checked by performing a submersion test on a 1" square piece and held under a container of fuel for 24 hours...if it doesn't swell or gain any appreciable weight, it passes...

I have not personally seen a website or link to where it has actually been tested to meet the basic Coast Guard or ABYC requirements.
That is not to say that it hasn't been done or doesn't exist, I just haven't seen the comparison.
Let me add that if someone has a link showing where the blue/pink insulation foam is proven to float as well or better than the expanding foam and meets the other requirements, I am very interested in seeing it.

The use of expanding foam to fill any voids between the rigid foam would seem like an almost futile attempt.
Let me explain my un-scientific reasoning for that statement.
The expanding foam does not stay in a liquid state long enough to actually spread throughout and in between layers of the rigid foam to "glue it into place", and even if it got in between and over enough of it to make a difference, you would still have to provide plenty of vent/pressure relief openings to prevent a blow out or worse, damaging a structural component like a stringer.

The final factor is cost.
I think overall, if the rigid foam performs as well or better than the expanding foam in a floatation sense, the amount needed according to my last calculations and locally available pricing is that the cost between the two is about a wash.
And as a final note, if the rigid foam were a better alternative both cost and performance wise, then I don't understand why boats are still being built using the expanding stuff instead of the rigid...?
You'd think if it was cheaper, obviously cleaner/neater to use/install ( less harmful gases/chemicals/mess) and performed as good or better, then why not use it in modern boat construction that has the floatation requirements as laid out by the CG.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I have seen everything from EPS (Extruded Poly Styrene) to packing peanuts being used as a floatation medium in boats, but the only recommended guideline by the CG is the expanding type...again, as far as I am aware and I have been known to be somewhat under-informed on many occasions...:facepalm:

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

gt what would be maximum gap peanut butter can fill in i have a pretty good gap on the starboard side of the transom

you cant really see the gap in the pic but i would say it better than 1/2 inch and possibly touchin 3/4

circle number one i really big gap and about 6 inches from where i have to repair a hole so i thought i could extend fiberglass up to that area to fill in some of the gap

circle number 2 is basically the same as one but i thought about fiberglassing just that area to take up some of the gap plus stiffen the hull a little

number 3 is the biggest concern the gap i pretty much all the way up the side so i thouht i would lay 2 or 3 layers of glass in that whole area to stiffen it as well as take up some of the gap. I guess i would be doing that on the port side as well because i it pretty thin and there is also a crack up near the top just below the wood that the rub rail and cap screw into.

figured that would be the best option more or less solving two problems with one solution.

i dont really want to cut another transom out

also your comment about foam being gas resistant never crossed my mind
but im not sure i would have to worry about that i have a remote steel tank that sits at the back of the boat.

and my bilge i want to build should be fully glassed and theoretically waterproof.

the only part of the bilge im not sure about is if i need to cut holes out of the board that will go side to side from stringer to stringer so i have a lip to support the removable cover.

if i should cut hole there then fuel or water could potentially get to the foam. i posted a couple of pics earlier in the thread of the cover i wanted to make

the pics im refering to are on page 3 post 54 and page 4 post 86

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

Repost the pix you're referencing, having the pix IN the post makes it MUCH easier to refer back as you answer multiple questions about the same (or worse, different) pix.

For the 1/2" gap, I'd fill it w/ HAIRY PB, just add 1/16-1/4" strands of cut up CSM, or you can buy milled fibers in various lengths, to your PB mix. Mix them in until your 'normal' peanut butter thickness PB is MUCH thicker, but still spreadable. Butter as much as you can into the void & once your satisfied it's as filled & overfiled as it will get, wet a metal spoon w/ acetone & run it down the PB to start the fillet. It should help get some of the fibers to layover & not be sticking out quite as much.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

Like JC said, if you add fibers to it, 1/2"-3/4" would be no problem, plus keep in mind you are going to be tabbing and laminating it in place, so the hairy PB is basically just being used as a filet forming material...think of it as grout being used to fill the voids between tiles...
And, as long as the hairy PB is not to only "glue" you are depending upon for strength, it can be pretty thick and be used to fill almost any void you need filling...
I have used a good amount to begin filling in the gap that existed between my deck and the hull along the edges where they meet...
Once I start building in the rest of my superstructure, I am going to use quite a bit more to create a smooth transition between the hull and the deck to promote excellent water flow to the bilge...to add a bit of extra strength, I will also add a layer of CSM over those filets...