Most of 'em, (sources) are questionable. Bureaucrats in the government, (that's BIG GOVERNMENT that has an established trend of significant growth in size, intrusiveness n' power there: TG), never have adjendas eh' TG?? If ya believe that I have a bridge for sale: real cheap. Having the known limitation of only one brain cell and limited amount of time, I generally am distrustful of most adjenda driven news and reports unless I have specific knowledge from inside an industry, (which I do not), or have spent a lot of time researching the matter (which I have not: recently). When this is the case, I revert to common sense. If there is BIG profits to be had from refining; (a logical cornclusion from yer position on this thread), there would be lots of entities building refineries, (which I see no evidence of), as the demand is still strong at this point. Heck even ol' Algore would be in the deal if he could make $, (he has lot's of cornections to Oxy Petroleum due to the favors his dear ol' dad did fer Mr. Hamer: don't ya know: TG). Algore says one thing fer the dim wits n' does other things when no one is lookin', (or more correctly no one is reportin' what ol' Al really does, as they are mostly on his n' other Lib's team: TG).
Sound's like the X-File's....
but that is ok, ill get you some harder sources.
While legislation is in place for no new plant's
TG; what does the above statement mean? Only one brain cell and zero mind reading capabilities.
the old ones could have been
easly updated or
revamped if they even needed it, they
knew the demand was growing
TG; Ken cites information that led me to believe that refining capacity has increased not decreased. Your information is in cornflict with that and your own statements, and your information does not make sense to someone with only one brain cell, so: I AM SUSPECIOUS OF YOUR INFO HERE, as Ken's seems much more rational, and therefore: believable. The number of refinaries is not as important as the total capacity of the refining assetts.
yet they
shut them down in the face of the increased demand and redtape ummm oh yeah how about.....
Please explain this upside down post. (Only one brain cell.) You been nippin' at PW2's n' Rolmops' stash again?
2. THe oil ind has all of the
capactiy paid for many years now and any new comp coming to the market would be dealt with in a hurry (Ya know the old gas war's we "used" to have)......
Hmmmmm thought yer point was capacitry was intentionally too low, (via some sorta cornspiracy): TG. I think I'm gonna give up. Ya got my single cell cornfusted with this last post here: TG. I don't agree with yer position, and I don't think it makes much sense to anyone else with business knowledge either.
Geesh bro maybe i missed something here, The Indrustry has bought and paid for all the existing refininng capacity currently being used, there only operating cost's are labor and maintance, giving them a huge a decisive edge over any new "COMPTETION" trying to come into the market,
You talk as if they are only one company: TG. Ever since Teddy Roosevelt there have been multiple companies, and if they actually collude as Bro Haut and you hint, I assure you an ambitious Politician(s) would haul them before congress and fry 'em under oath. VERY UNLIKELY, as they make enough money: legally. Since there are in fact a number of large oil companies (both domestic and overseas), any shortage in refining capacity that could be built at a reasonable cost and risk: would be built. I believe Ken's post indicated the oil companies have chosen to increase production at existing facilities instead of taking the huge risk of building new refinaries. Very logical and businesslike conduct in my opinion. The Democrats and some wobbly Republicans have placed lot's of barriers to construction, and the Democrats want the profits from these investments, (see Hillary's recent statement about her intention of take their profits). You already said you would not build in that environment why would any rational investor build????????
they could
create a price war driving out any new attempt to compete ya know what we used to see once upon a time... leading to what we have now....a Monoply..........
TG, take another toke. What a silly statement. Price 'wars' are in times of slow demand. You need to take some basic business courses, to sort this stuff out if it really bugs ya. You don't seem to get the basic corncept here at all my man.
A internet quote or statement: There are
structural problems with the oil/gas industry that prevent if from being a truly market driven industry.
Why yes, it is known as OPEC: TG
Normally you would expect that reduced refining capacity would result in lower crude prices. The supply of crude would rise because the refineries couldn't handle more, and the price would therefore fall. Thus, oil companies would have an incentive to increase refining capacity.
YUP, that is why yer words do NOT MAKE SENSE!!!! Shuting down refinaries is not logical.
But, because of monopoly structure of the industry,
TG: study history. A great President called Teddy Roosevelt ended the domestic monopoly in the oil bisiness, can't do much about the foriegn problems.
it doesn't work that way. Rather than lowering the price, the industry *raises* crude prices in order to cut demand at the pump. Thus ... no incentive to increase refining capacity.
TG: DEMAND effects prices, the domestic industry does not corntrol pricing.
In fact, they have been steadily reducing capacity. Between 1995 and 2001 there were a total of 24 refinery closures in the United States.
Read my earlier response, and go read Ken's post and tell us why Ken's information is false. Your information does not make sense.
Senator Ron Wyden ordered a comprehensive report on the refining industry
some years ago. Some interesting findings:
"[They] uncovered several memos and internal documents from major oil companies. These charted the way that capacity in the US refining industry was reduced to maintain higher profits.
Wyden received one such memo from oil company Texaco,
written in 1996. The company felt it was quite clear that petrol supplies needed "reducing."
"The most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity," said the memo.
"The same situation exists for the entire US refining industry. Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins, and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline."
If ya have the budget of the US government at yer disposal, you can surely get snippits of information to support yer off base points over a period of 11 years. That still does not make 'em the truth: TG.
So tell us again how
free market controls are working here?
Free markets don't have corntrols: TG!!!! That's socialism yer thinkin' about.
OTOH, I'd personally like to see gas prices double or triple. It's the only way this country will get serious about alternative energy.
I guess you don't care about the US economy then. OK whatever!!
There are structural problems with the oil/gas industry that prevent if from being a truly market driven industry. Normally you would expect that reduced refining capacity would result in lower crude prices. The supply of crude would rise because the refineries couldn't handle more, and the price would therefore fall. Thus, oil companies would have an incentive to increase refining capacity.
But, because of monopoly structure of the industry, it doesn't work that way. Rather than lowering the price, the industry *raises* crude prices in order to cut demand at the pump. Thus ... no incentive to increase refining capacity.
In fact, they have been steadily reducing capacity. Between 1995 and 2001 there were a total of 24 refinery closures in the United States.
Senator Ron Wyden ordered a comprehensive report on the refining industry some years ago. Some interesting findings:
"[They] uncovered several memos and internal documents from major oil companies. These charted the way that capacity in the US refining industry was reduced to maintain higher profits.
Wyden received one such memo from oil company Texaco, written in 1996. The company felt it was quite clear that petrol supplies needed "reducing."
"The most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity," said the memo.
"The same situation exists for the entire US refining industry. Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins, and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline."
So tell us again how free market controls are working here?
As RPJS stated: you're repeating the same stuff. Take another toke my friend.
Not my statement but well said and articulated,
