Buick V6 conversion

[4bait]

Started getting a Buick V6 ready to go into my 6 meter Bertram.

the old Motor is a 470 mercruiser

I have seen a fair bit on here asking about the Buicks in Boats.

heres is my project so far

Pay no attention to the dirty motor as it is yet to be stripped and overhauled.
I got a fuel injected 1997 series 2 engine for $30 because the previous owner thought it was no good and didn't know what was wrong with it, but all that was wrong was a broken $20 valve spring.

These motors are a dime a dozen here in Ozz and they have proven to be pretty much Bullet proof over the years. Parts for them are cheap the motors are light and compact and deliver good HP

I have a Alpha Gen 2 set up coming from the states to fit up to the motor

Heres the manifold pics under construction built out of 316 stainless.

plasma Cut out the exhuast flanges

bent up the angles needed and welded inplace whilst still bolted to the block to ensure the risers sat where I wanted them

Nearly finished the first one just got to fit the anodes and the water inlet then polish it up nice and shiny

these are ones that you can purchase from several different people for around $2500 AUD

they also put these motors into the Jet Boats in NewZealand and with a factory super charger and a few more mods they get around 300 plus HP out of them.
I have a few pics of them but not sure if i'm aloud to put them up here or not.

Cheers Andy

 

[Bondo]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

the old Motor is a 470 mercruiser
I have a Alpha Gen 2 set up coming from the states to fit up to the motor

Ayuh,... Did you also find a Gen.II transom assembley too,..??
The 470s were never used with the Gen.IIs,+ the Gen.II will Not mount up to an Alpha 1 transom assembley...

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Ayuh,... Did you also find a Gen.II transom assembley too,..??
The 470s were never used with the Gen.IIs,+ the Gen.II will Not mount up to an Alpha 1 transom assembley...

Yep got the lot coming Gen 2 outdrive top and bottom box, transum Assy, innner transum plate, power steering, tilt rams and hoses, tilt pump, exhaust Y pipe. and drive plate which I will need to drill the flywheel to suit.

I think thats it all is getting Crated and is in KILN, MISSISSIPPI at the moment ready to be shipped out monday hopefully.

The old 470 motor and drive which is getting tired will be sold local here in Australia and they are still selling here for not much less than what I paid for the new stuff, so if all goes to plan it should be good.

Cheers Andy

 

[Aviator5]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Motor is fuel injected, so how do you control it? Do you use the control unit from the car?

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Yes it will be controlled via a car computer. I have a programmer to reprogram the computer chip so it will run in the boat with all the anti theft and transmission controls etc de-activated and can also spruce it up for some extra power.

The wiring harness will be lengthened and the computer will be in a sealed in a water tight box and mounted high and dry in the cabin.

I have the same engines in a Toyota Hilux and also in my wife?s GM Holden Commodore and they have been fantastic.


Cheers Andy

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Bugger Just got an email from the place in New Zealand that does the Buick Conversions and they don't do an adapter bell housing to bolt the Buick motor to the Alpha Gen 2 leg, They only do them for the old 470 and pre Alpha Legs Grrrrrr. I made some enquiries and it looks as though no one makes them which surprises me, as these motors are so plentiful here and other marine parts can be purchased for them.


Not to worry though as my original plan was to build one, and I have started on it already, it just would have been nice to get an off the shelf item to make the job easier. Now just need to wait 6 weeks for the leg to turn up so I can get some extra measurements off it.

So as it turns out this will be a first

On a lighter note the second exhaust manifold is nearly finished.

Heres A couple pics of the Bertram 20 that it will be going in

Cheers Andy

 

[triman]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Old phots Andy, got nothing more recent?

How about a couple of photos of the engine bay before you start demolishing everything?

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Yes Roy they are 12 months old now from when I purchased it, and as you know heaps has been done to her since.

Taking a good photo in the narrow driveway under a carport is difficult and when it's not in the driveway I?m to busy fishing to take a pic so it just hasn't happened.

Will try and get some better ones in the morning and the engine bay too for people to see before it gets demolished.

I don't tend to see a lot of pictures on this site in the past so I?m not 100% sure on the etiquette yet. But if people don't mind them I will keep posting Pics when I have them, to go with the updates

Cheers Andy

 

[180shabah]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Pics are always welcome here, just keep them "small". What you have above is good.

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

heres the second Manifold almost done and the second pic is sitting on the motor with the O2 sensors installed.

the O2 sensors needed to be positioned in an area that can sample exhaust gasses from all cylinders but also in a dry part of the exhaust to avoid water contamination.

Cheers Andy

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Got the front engine mounts just about done. Hopefully they should do the job.

Made them out of Alloy, as I want to try and keep weight to a minimum.

They are fully adjustable up and down so I should be able to Line the drive shaft up properly. They will bolt up to the stringers.

Next problem is that the oil filter sticks out too far to fit between the stingers so I need to decide whether to cut some stringer out and glass it up again for clearance, or whether to fit a remote filter.

Cheers Andy

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Howdy,


Looks like an ambitious project! Nice job on the manifolds!

They look like how I would have done them using my Miller Synchrowave 180! SS welding is pretty easy huh?


No one has said it yet so I guess I will, Please be sure that you "ignition-protect" the starter and alternator or use "marine" equivalent units.

Those two items probably have the highest potential for igniting vaporized petrol. (No one here wants to read about a Bertram 20 that "blew up" on the other side of the world!!)


I don't know about "down-under" but you would be violating all sorts of US Coast Guard rules by using a Non-Marine starter, alternator, fuel system, etc...


Cheers,


Rick

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Howdy,


Looks like an ambitious project! Nice job on the manifolds!

They look like how I would have done them using my Miller Synchrowave 180! SS welding is pretty easy huh?


No one has said it yet so I guess I will, Please be sure that you "ignition-protect" the starter and alternator or use "marine" equivalent units.

Those two items probably have the highest potential for igniting vaporized petrol. (No one here wants to read about a Bertram 20 that "blew up" on the other side of the world!!)


I don't know about "down-under" but you would be violating all sorts of US Coast Guard rules by using a Non-Marine starter, alternator, fuel system, etc...


Cheers,


Rick

Yep very good points you have there and I am looking into getting both starter and Alternater marinised.
Also with the fuel injection sytem the fuel pump stops and will only run whilst the motor is cranking or running. so if it developes a leak and fuel pressure drops the motor and fuel pump should both cut out.

Cheers Andy

 

[dan t.]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

not sure who makes it but there is a 3/16 thick adaptor plate from chev to buick/olds/pontiac bellhousing bolt patterns. the 2 bottom bolts and the dowels line up. nice job on the manifold

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

.
As mentioned earlier on here The oil filter stuck out too far and would hit on the boat stringers when fitted.

Looked at several different solutions to solving this problem including remotely mounting the filter elsewhere and running pipes to it, and also cutting away part of the stringer to give it some clearance.

This is what I decided to do to fix the problem

First of all I needed a block of aluminium which I didn't have any the correct size.
So I fired up my home built Kiln and poured some molten Alloy into an old coffee tin roughly the right dimensions.
Did a couple of these so I have a backup if I stuffed the first one.

Next I machined the coffee tin off using the lathe to expose the alloy inside.

Then I machined the rounded surfaces needed and then put it in the mill to drill out and tap the oil galleries. Also while I was playing with the mill I decided some cooling fins and engraving could look cool.

This is the filter mount Before

And After

Unfortunately My skills at doing letters free hand in the mill need a tad more practice but the end result is quiet acceptable and it should do what it needs too.
One day I may have to upgrade the mill to full CNC LOL

Cheers Andy

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

the answer to "Can I put a car engine in my boat" is getting referred to this thread from now on....
Anything is possible with enough time and resources.
Thanks for posting the pics!

looking forward to a launch day video!

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

FYI

I enquired with an engine reconditioning company about getting the cam re-ground to make it more suitable for marine purpose, even though I have the same engine in my Toyota Hilux 4x4 and it has heaps of low down grunt I thought it should be looked into.

This is the response I got

Hi Andy
I put one of these motors in an old whittley voyoger, which is an 18ft cabin cruiser and made an edaptor plate & flywheel to put a volvo penta 280 stern drive leg behind it.
That thing did not need any mods from the std camshaft & computer.It went awesomely well and was very reliable & easy starting.I had my computor in a box with terminals packed with marine grease.
regards Greg
Bech and Borge Engineering pty ltd

so with that in mind I am going to leave the camshaft standard for now and see how it performs, The standard cam is a roller cam and roller lifters.
If it proves in adequate I can have it done at a later date.


cheers Andy

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

like an above poster pointed out.
there are transmission adapters on the market,I think even bar made them for a while.
to adapt the chevrolet bellhousing to the buik,pontiac and olds engine blocks.
thats assuming your 3800 still uses the old buick pattern.
then all it would require is trimming the bellhousing face a bit.

 

[4bait]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

getting closer now as the motor is all back together nice and fresh.

The only thing left to do is finish the sump and the oil pickup re-location then motor wise it is done.

next will be to fit the drive coupling to the flywheel and an adapter for it to bolt up to the mercruiser then it will be time to start fitting it in and sorting out the electrics etc.


here she is will probably paint the top cover black once it's all fitted

Cheers Andy

 

[achris]

Re: Buick V6 conversion

Hi Andy,

I'm in Perth, also with a Bertram 20... Nice boat and a great project...

I should point out a couple of things that you may not know or have realized.

1. Those stainless manifolds look a lot like some that were being made in Qld a few years back... They had no end of problems with them cracking...

2. the engine has a lot of Ali parts. If you're not running closed cooling you'll find them disappearing faster then you can replace them...

3. Flywheel housing... Any chance of taking a Mercruiser Gen II housing and modifying it?

4. Engine coupler... Have you sorted that yet?

As for using the Commodore engine, great idea. I just wish we had access to the abundant and cheap engines that our USA brethren have...

Chris.........