Can't get outboard to WOT.

[Saskatoon2005]

So, I finally got my boat out on the lake for the first time this year, and guess what it started great after Paul helped me rewire the new solenoid i bought this spring.<br /><br /> New problem. I started the boat and opened it up to full throttle and the boat only ran at what felt like half throttle and speed. Does naybody know what to do in this circumstance? I just did a carburetor rebuild last year, but I bought a rebuild kit from Sierra and it did not have a float.<br /><br /> I have a new float on order with my local jonnyrude dealer. So in 6-9 days I'll have it in.<br /><br /> Is there any way that the coils or spark plugs or points could have done this? Last year at the end of the year I started having this problem. The last time I had boat out I couldn't get Wot either. I figured I didn't mix my fuel properly.<br /><br /> Also after today I noticed (after I pulled boat out of water) that there was some black goo dripping out of the exhaust port. Would that have anything to do with the not getting Wot?<br /><br /> Please help me figure out this mess. So far you guys have helped me in every other proplem I have had with this motor.<br /><br /> I have a 1961 Johnson Outboard, which is a 40 H.P. Model number RDS-23.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Originally posted by Saskatoon2005:<br /> <br /> Is there any way that the coils or spark plugs or points could have done this? Last year at the end of the year I started having this problem. The last time I had boat out I couldn't get Wot either. I figured I didn't mix my fuel properly.

Yup,yup and yup....Have you checked for spark on both cylinders? Do a compression test too for good measure. Perhaps your running on one cylinder. A quick inspection under the flywheel will tell you volumes. Look closely at the coils for any leaking or cracks. Cracked coil can run OK at low RPM's and drop out at higher motor speeds. Check the points for proper gap (.020) and any pitting or burning. The parts for you motor can be found easily and replaced without much fuss, they're cheap too. Do a sync and link to be sure you have full ignition advance. <br />The black goo from the exhaust is usually from a lot of slow trolling and is a mixture of unburned fuel, exhaust and water. Missing a cylinder doesn't help either.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Thanks for your help. I will replace all of the electronic stuff I have already bought. Is Sierra a good name for parts? I bought the points, coils and condensers from them, and will install a.s.a.p. I also will replace the boots, and wires leading to the spark plugs.<br /><br /> Thank-you for you help and after I get this done, I will let you know of the end result. Thanks again for your quick reply.<br /><br /> Just to let you know i did do a compression test and it was fine, both over 100 psi and not more than 10% difference between them.

 

[byacey]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Classic symptom of running on one cylinder. If the coils are original it's time to change them, if I recall correctly the age of your motor mentioned in previous posts. Did you ever try that G2 epoxy we discussed in a previous post? Make sure the armature plate the coils and points are mounted on doesn't have a lot of "wobble" to it. This will affect the points gap when advancing the throttle, also causing intermittent spark.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Hey Bill,<br /><br /> I still have problems getting that Mercury 7.5 H.p. motor starting so now I am working on my 40 H.p. Johnson. I will find out exactly what is required for that motor....one motor at a time. I haven't tried g2 epoxy yet, but if you are sure it would work better than JB weld or other stuff then I will try it.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Personally, I like the Sierra ignition coils better than the factory stuff. They seem to have more zap. I know that the energy ought to be limited by the size of the core, but they really do seem better.<br />The coils I've gotten from them have a slight thread to the point which stabs the spark plug wire. This allows you to thread the spark plug wire into the coil as you push it in, which holds it much better.<br /><br />Use metal core plug wires. Not the automotive stuff.

 

[clemsonfor]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

when you rebuil the carbs. Was the original bowl gasket 1 piece and the kit contained a 2 piece gasket. If you leave the little ring gasket that goes in the middle of the bowl at the top of the tube it causes it to suck air and only fell like it going half throttle at WOT. Trust me i know i did it. Also it may be succing air somewhere else at feul line connections split hose of leaking primer bulb.<br /><br />-Nate

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

OKay, so I am in the process of pulling of the flywheel and guess what, I am sure you have heard this a million times but I can not (for the life of me) get this flywheel off. Anyone have any smart ideas about what to aid in the help? I got the flywheel nut off and the rachet for the pull start off. <br /><br /> On the top of my flywheel there is an inspection hole where you can check the points without removing the flywheel. I was checking the wires through there and guess what? One of the wires connecting to the top of the condenser was broken off. I can see some brown oily like substance covering the sides of the coils and points. The points look great but I will replace them right after I remove the flywheel. (If I ever can get it). I have to go to my local Johnny rude dealer to get new plug wires and boots but other than that I have all the necessary electrical parts to complete the overhaul.<br /><br />Thanks for all the help guys you are a great asset in my endeavers with this outboard!

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Once you get the flywheel off, you'll be having a good look at the top main seal. It's not difficult to replace if it's bad and it's pretty cheap. But sometimes that oil up there is just collected or left over.<br /><br />You've got an appropriate puller right? Something that acts on the three bolt holes that the starter ratchet is attached with. Like this:<br />

<br /><br />If so, torque it up to about 50ft/lbs or thereabouts, lift up on the whole contraption with one hand and strike the puller's centre bolt with a hammer. Retorque and repeat.<br />I put a cheap impact wrench socket over the puller's bolt to prevent damage to it. But it's not a big deal to do without.<br /><br />It's funny, I had posted about rubbing wires but then realized you hadn't rebuilt the magneto yet, so I deleted it. Must have been ESP.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Hey all,<br /><br /> So I got the flywheel off, I put the puller on it, and then I lifted it the few thoundthd of and inch (the free play) and banged the center part of the puller with a hammer protected by wood. A few bangs and bingo it came off. I looked at the components of the megneto and noticed that only one side had been replaced and the other side with the broken condenser wire was original from who knows how old. It is raining right now so I will wait til it is better weather and then give you more of an update on fixing the plate. <br /><br /> One little question though. I bought new spark plug wires and boots. I bought three feet of wire...Is this enough? I am not sure how much to buy, but I would like to know before I take the plate apart.<br /><br /> Also there were metal shavings in and around the megneto plate. I looked at the ends of the coils (the heels) and they had come in contact with the flywheel and were rubbed down by like an 1/8 of an inch. The megneto plate was quite loose and I could see the affects of the loose megnato plate on the coils.<br /><br /> Is there a picture of how and where to smack the inner brass looking ring. I read the forum of how to fix a wobbly armature plate but I really like pictures as they speak volumes about it.<br /><br />Looking forward to more great replys.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Oh sorry, I don't think that's enough. Last time I replaced them on a BT I bought 5'. I still have the scrap and it's 18" long. <br /><br />The plate comes off really easily. Disconnect the weird spring at the throttle linkage, then loosen the 4 phillips screws near the centre of the plate. Then the whole thing will lift off and you can take it inside.<br /><br />I'll put together a pic of how to beat up the ring. Hopefully I can get Joe's approval.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Okay, I have it inside and the leads from the coils to the a) ignition switch and b) vacuum cut-out switch are rubbed right through so I am going to recut and crimp and solder new leads there.<br /><br /> I bought a boot kit for the spark plug wires and I have no idea how to put them together. I'll send a pic so you can see what I am to do. They are a Quicksilver type and they say they are for Mercury but I figure anything will work for this application. I just wanted new....I'll send a pic shortly....<br /><br /> You are right about the length, it is definately not long enough. It is only long enough for one wire (the long one) Should I just use the other one or go back and pick up more wire?

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

here are the pics....<br /><br />

<br /><br />

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Ok, those boots will do just fine. There's two ways to put them together, the "right" way and the way I'd do it. You can pick. <br /><br />Right way:<br />Strip about 1/2" of wire or so and fold it over so the core runs over the insulation about 1/4". Set the wire between the two tangs on the end of the terminal and crimp the tangs over with a crimper (ie pliers) so they grasp the insulation. This provides strain relief for the core conductor.<br /><br />My way: <br />Strip about 1/4" of wire and solder the end into a pool of solder just ahead of the tangs. Then crimp over the tangs to grasp the insulation providing strain relief. <br /><br />Either way, the next step is simple. Perhaps with the aid of a little preferably silicone grease, push the spark plug connector & wire assembly into the boot. But before you do, give a good tug on each connector so you can make sure the crimp is good. <br /><br />Here are the four places you strike to get the wobblyness out of the armature plate:<br />

<br />The idea is to make that flat brass ring more of a wavey shape. That chisel is far larger than necessary but it was the only one at hand. If you end up overbending it, you may have to remove it and flatten it a bit.<br /><br />I like to loctite everything up under the flywheel to make sure it doesn't come loose. If you don't have any, just make sure all the screws are nice and tight. It worked fine for 40 years right?<br /><br />I hope that helps!

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

I rebuilt the magneto, I'll send pics to website a.s.a.p. If you can just have a look and see if I got the wiring right. I am unsure of the two bottom wires...a) ignition wire and b) vacuum cut-out switch. Are they wired right? I mean do they look like they are coming out right from the megneto?<br /><br /> Also I just listened to my messages and my float is in for my carburetor. So a rebuild is on its way in that degree as well. Will let you guys know how it turns out. Now I have to research how to get these spark plug boots on....later guys....and good night.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

I read your information Paul and thanks again, you've been such a great help. I am eager to get this back together and start her up.<br /><br />Last year I did a impeller replacement, so after this work is done, there isn't anythign else I can do....so I hope this works perfectly.<br /><br />You were right about the threaded points in the coils for the spark plug wires to be "screwed in" I like that alot makes it seem much more secure. Everything went well together except I kinda forgot how the ignition and vacuum cutout wires are routed underneath, but I am sure that as long as they don't bind that it will work the way I have it.<br /><br />Is tere anything I should be aware of in the way of "rubbing" against stuff under the flywheel? What is the clearance I have for it? I guess I can figure that out when need be...ie. replaceing the megneto plate.<br /><br />I guess I will try and use a screwdriver to hit the "brass" ring at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions. Thanks for the pic Paul it's a HUGE help. Well goodnight and I'll keep you up to date on things as they progress.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

I think you've done just about every major task on your outboard Saskatoon. We must be running out of things to do eh?<br /><br />The coils are set somewhere around .015" back from the flywheel magnets. But there really isn't any specification for it. If you just align them with the machined face on the bosses they sit on you'll be fine. OMC did make a big ring to align the coils with that fit over the bosses. It had a 4.472" inside diameter.<br />

<br /><br />As for the rest, just tuck the wiring as low as possible and you won't have a problem. Since you have the inspection hole you'll be able to see if you have anything rubbing. <br /><br />Once the wobble is out of the armature plate, the coils should stop striking the flywheel. The engine will also be much, much quieter.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

Nice pics Paul, you have really been an asset. It is nice to see someone who takes lots of pride even in there hobbies. That cracked coil looks almost exactly like mine except the metal arms are not painted green. Are those Sierra coils? I was wondering what these coils would look like when they are "cracked". I will still give you a pic of my magneto plate now...hold on I have to take a picture of it.<br /><br /> Also I do not have any molybdenum grease to set the plate back on. Can I use White lithium grease? will that work well enough? what is the drawback if I do use it, or should I buy some moly grease.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

<br /><br />

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Can't get outboard to WOT.

That picture was actually taken by Xcusme. That pictured above is an OMC coil. The M in the square was OMC's trade mark. So if your coils have it they're OMC. <br /><br />Moly grease is totally unnecessary for the mag plate. There are no extreme pressure forces so the moly additive will never get used. White lithium will work just fine. <br /><br />If you re-use the wick, just relubricate it with a little light machine oil like 3-in-1. Otherwise lightly grease the cam with a quality grease. Clean off any that gets on the crankshaft taper.<br /><br />EDIT: That looks perfect to me. Wires nicely tucked in. You may want to bend up the ground leads on the coils as they run pretty close to the crankshaft, which will be "enlarged" by the flywheel. That's a common trouble spot and I've got a few coils with a little tape on the wires there.