Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

[SgtMaj]

So I was just doing some odd browsing the other day, and ran accross this site selling what amounts to a mason jar with an anode and cathode to use Electrolysis to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen gas, which then simply runs through a tube into the intake manifold to be burned in the engine. It claimed to be able to increase fuel efficiency in cars by about 1/3 per mason jar installed. Of course they wanted some $200 for it, which is of course ridiculous, but it looks incredibly simple to make, so I was thinking of making one, and testing it out. The thing that got me was some of the videos of it working, and I was quite impressed with how quickly it created the gas... I would have thought electrolysis was much slower. But, as far as getting better gas mileage is concerned, do you think it will work at all, or could/would it destroy or damage the motor?

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

I have found that the only way for me to save on gas is to drive less.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

Unfortuneately I live so far from work, that I don't really have that option. I end up commuting about 10 hours a week on the interstate, which eats up about $60 of gas a week at $3/gal.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

I know what you mean.

 

[JB]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

There aint no free lunch, SgtMaj.

Where do you suppose the energy to electrolyze the water is going to come from? Wherever it comes from (like the car's alternator?) it will take more energy to make the H2 and O2 than recombining them will produce. Net gain? Negative. Net loss. Worse yet, it takes more energy to run the alternator than it produces. Another net loss.

Would it harm the engine? Well, the space shuttle rocket engines run on H & O, but that is a very high tech controlled explosion. In very small amounts it might be safe, but then again, it might blow the whole front end off your car.

A crazy scheme? Perhaps crazy but hair brained for sure.

 

[bucky7680]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

How do they control the amount of H produced? How do they get the proper amount in the cyliders?

 

[Lakester]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

I was quite impressed with how quickly it created the gas... I would have thought electrolysis was much slower. But, as far as getting better gas mileage is concerned, do you think it will work at all, or could/would it destroy or damage the motor?

hello,

"I was quite impressed with how quickly it created the gas..."

u should try cabbage or beans...

sorry, couldnt resist.

no, u wont get 1/3 better gas mileage. i doubt u will get any at all. generally, only improving volumetric efficiency will increase mpg...

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

There aint no free lunch, SgtMaj.

Where do you suppose the energy to electrolyze the water is going to come from? Wherever it comes from (like the car's alternator?) it will take more energy to make the H2 and O2 than recombining them will produce. Net gain? Negative. Net loss. Worse yet, it takes more energy to run the alternator than it produces. Another net loss.

Would it harm the engine? Well, the space shuttle rocket engines run on H & O, but that is a very high tech controlled explosion. In very small amounts it might be safe, but then again, it might blow the whole front end off your car.

A crazy scheme? Perhaps crazy but hair brained for sure.

Well of course it comes from the alternator, but the alternator runs anyway, reguardless of how much "juice" I use... and my alternator produces about 18 amps when I'm on the interstate, which is where I spend the bulk of my commute, and 18 amps is way more than enough to top off the battery and run every bit of electronics and then some... so that and then some that's being wasted is what I'd be using to electrolyse the water with... and no of course it won't run the vehicle on that by itself, gas will always be necessary, but if it can improve mileage by recycling some of that lost electricity back into a few combustion strokes, that's what I'm looking for here.

I don't expect it to work as well as they claim it does... but I do think it will work to save maybe 1/6th or 1/8th or somewhere in that range.

I guess there's only one way to find out... I'll just have to test it.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

How do they control the amount of H produced? How do they get the proper amount in the cyliders?

This system doesn't seperate the hydrogen and oxygen, it just sends it all to the intake manifold together.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

Good luck with it, sgtmaj. As stated before though, it takes more energy to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen than can be recovered by burning them, that is what the big holdup is on hydrogen fuel cells, etc. What you WILL find is you will get worse gas mileage and create an unsafe vehicle. But don't let that stop you...here's hopng for the best and let us know how you make out. All the great discoveries in the last century were made by little guys just fumbling their way through a day to day problem.
--
Stan

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

Good luck with it, sgtmaj. As stated before though, it takes more energy to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen than can be recovered by burning them, that is what the big holdup is on hydrogen fuel cells, etc. What you WILL find is you will get worse gas mileage and create an unsafe vehicle. But don't let that stop you...here's hopng for the best and let us know how you make out. All the great discoveries in the last century were made by little guys just fumbling their way through a day to day problem.
--
Stan

I think there is some confusion here as this is not meant to replace gas, or be any type of free energy generator, it's only meant to recover some energy that is normally wasted.

Anyway, I'm going to do it and see what happens. I think should be able to measure it by measuring idling RPM's for a faster way of determining if it's working or not, but of course the real test will be the MPG. Only problem is I don't have a base reading to compare it to, so I'll have to measure my MPG as it is now, then attach it and drive around a while, then take another reading. For the purpose of this experiment though, I'm not going to hook it up through the ignition switch, so I'll have to get the MPG measurement from just one test drive, because I don't want it generating hydrogen and oxygen gas while parked, that would only serve to kill a good battery.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

I think there is some confusion here as this is not meant to replace gas, or be any type of free energy generator, it's only meant to recover some energy that is normally wasted.

I don't know where you think you are getting normally wasted energy from. The alternator only puts out the electricity required by the vehicle at any given time (yes, to charge the battery and operate systems). If you attach a hydrogen generator to the electrical system you are going to require that the alternator put out a little MORE energy, which is going to require a little MORE horsepower to turn, which is going to require a little MORE gasoline to generate that horsepower. You will end up burning more gasoline to create the hydrogen than you save by burning the hydrogen. The only waste energy from a gasoline engine is heat....now if you can figure out a way to harness more heat and make it work for you.....why then you'd really be on to something.....
--
Stan

 

[v1_0]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

So I was just doing some odd browsing the other day, and ran accross this site selling what amounts to a mason jar with an anode and cathode to use Electrolysis to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen gas, which then simply runs through a tube into the intake manifold to be burned in the engine. It claimed to be able to increase fuel efficiency in cars by about 1/3 per mason jar installed. Of course they wanted some $200 for it, which is of course ridiculous, but it looks incredibly simple to make, so I was thinking of making one, and testing it out. The thing that got me was some of the videos of it working, and I was quite impressed with how quickly it created the gas... I would have thought electrolysis was much slower. But, as far as getting better gas mileage is concerned, do you think it will work at all, or could/would it destroy or damage the motor?

You may want to read this: "http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=590986"

And this: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_injection"

Here's a bolt on product... Not a mason jar, though, so probably not the same company: "http://www.globaltech.ca/sohfitech.htm" I wonder if they (Coast Guard) would let this sort of thing on a boat?

-V

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

You may want to read this: "http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=590986"

And this: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_injection"

Here's a bolt on product... Not a mason jar, though, so probably not the same company: "http://www.globaltech.ca/sohfitech.htm" I wonder if they (Coast Guard) would let this sort of thing on a boat?

-V

Hey thanks, very useful info. looking at that, and comparing the system that I was looking into creating... I think I can probably expect to get right at about 10% better fuel economy. That's not a lot, but it adds up to about $312/yr. Still, I'll have to see if it works at all for me, first.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

I made an electrolysis for a jr high school science project and with only a little chemistryand can say 100% certain .IT WONT WORK...Its all about the process itself and the by products produced. The fumes would be fatal to breath for one thing. There is something called a catalist which would be needed for the solution and massive amounts of contaminated waste would have to be removed . Its a scam for morons who know nothing but want alot. gez

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

I made an electrolysis for a jr high school science project and with only a little chemistryand can say 100% certain .IT WONT WORK...Its all about the process itself and the by products produced. The fumes would be fatal to breath for one thing. There is something called a catalist which would be needed for the solution and massive amounts of contaminated waste would have to be removed . Its a scam for morons who know nothing but want alot. gez

There's not actually a catalist in electrolysis, it's just an enectrolyte that allows current to flow through the water. In this case I'll be using baking soda for that. The fumes comming directly off the electrolysis would just be 2 parts hydrogen gas to one part oxygen gas... of course, since the engine would still also be burning gasoline, the fumes from the tailpipe would still be deadly.

As far as wether or not it works to improve gas mileage, I guess we'll know in a couple of days. I'm going to top of the gas tank in the morning and get the odometer readings, then run some errands before re-topping the tank off and calculating the MPG. Then I'll make and install this and drive around a bit, and then fill up a final time and calculate the MPG with this to have a comparison. Just to be sure I'm getting an accurate measurement, I'll use the same pump at the same gas station all three times.

 

[QC]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

This system doesn't seperate the hydrogen and oxygen, it just sends it all to the intake manifold together.

Isn't that water injection . . .? That'll help with fuel economy. No, really. I'm actually serious, just don't know if you'll be able to measure it.

JB said it best . . .

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

Isn't that water injection . . .?

Kinda, except it's two parts hydrogen gas and one part oxygen gas until it burns in the cylinder and becomes water.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

This thread is absolutely hysterical. ROFLMAO

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Crazy gas saving scheme, will it work?

Yes, it works. In fact, you are about to buy your last tank of gas for 2008!

BTW, I have this old Johnson 6hp that I run off of banana peels, It now puts out 875 hp. Does anyone know where I can get an 8" x 57" prop for a Johnson 6hp?




(Sorry .... couldn't resist )