Did Iraq have WMD?

gafteci

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

ob – here is an article from Knight Ridder. It goes through what the WH said and did in challenging critics. I’m posting the part about the same intelligence that the Congress supposedly saw. I know it’s a lot, but there have been a lot of untruths going around.<br /><br /> Knight Ridder Newspapers <br /><br />
ASSERTION: In his speech, Bush noted that "more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate - who had access to the same intelligence - voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power." <br />CONTEXT: This isn't true. <br />The Congress didn't have access to the President's Daily Brief, a top-secret compendium of intelligence on the most pressing national security issues that was sent to the president every morning by former CIA Director George Tenet. <br />As for prewar intelligence on Iraq, senior administration officials had access to other information and sources that weren't available to lawmakers. <br />Cheney and his aides visited the CIA and other intelligence agencies to view raw intelligence reports, received briefings and engaged in highly unusual give-and-take sessions with analysts. <br />Moreover, officials in the White House and the Pentagon received information directly from the Iraqi National Congress (INC), an exile group, circumventing U.S. intelligence agencies, which greatly distrusted the organization. <br />The INC's information came from Iraqi defectors who claimed that Iraq was hiding chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs, had mobile biological-warfare facilities and was training Islamic radicals in assassinations, bombings and hijackings. <br />The White House emphasized these claims in making its case for war, even though the defectors had shown fabrication or deception in lie-detector tests or had been rejected as unreliable by U.S. intelligence professionals. <br />All of the exiles' claims turned out to be bogus or remain unproven. <br />War hawks at the Pentagon also created a special unit that produced a prewar report - one not shared with Congress - that alleged that Iraq was in league with al-Qaida. A version of the report, briefed to Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and top White House officials, disparaged the CIA for finding there was no cooperation between Iraq and the terrorist group, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence disclosed. <br />After the report was leaked in November 2003 to a conservative magazine, the Pentagon disowned it. <br />In fact, a series of secret U.S. intelligence assessments discounted the administration's assertion that Saddam could give banned weapons to al-Qaida. <br />In other cases, Bush and his top lieutenants relied on partial or uncorroborated intelligence. <br />For example, Cheney contended in an August 2002 speech that Iraq would develop a nuclear weapon "fairly soon," even though U.S. intelligence agencies and the U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency had no evidence to support such a claim. <br />The following month, Bush, Cheney and then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice asserted that Iraq had sought aluminum tubes for a nuclear-weapons program. At the time, however, U.S. intelligence agencies were deeply divided over the question. The IAEA later determined that the tubes were for ground-to-ground rockets. <br />A recently declassified Defense Intelligence Agency report from February 2002 said that an al-Qaida detainee was probably lying to U.S. interrogators when he claimed that Iraq had been teaching members of the terrorist network to use chemical and biological weapons. <br />Yet eight months after the report was published, Bush told the nation that "we've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaida members in bomb-making and poisons and gases." <br />Meanwhile, lawmakers didn't have access to intelligence products that may have been more temperate than what they got, even after they investigated the prewar intelligence assessment. For instance, the Director of Central Intelligence refused to give the Senate committee a copy of a paper drafted by the CIA's Near East and Southeast Asia Office examining Iraq's links to terrorism. <br />Lawmakers didn't see the main document concerning Iraq and WMD - the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate - until three days before their vote authorizing war. The White House ordered the NIE compiled only after lawmakers, including the then-chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., demanded it. <br />The resolution that authorized use of force against Iraq didn't specifically address removing Saddam. It gave Bush the power to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq" and to "enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq." <br />
 

gafteci

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Skinnywater wrote:<br />
I own a dictionary and use it often. ", a pretense of virtue, piety, etc." <br />Your request was simple. <br />You point a finger of ridicule at those who label or paint broad pictures. And you turn around and do it yourself.<br />Unfortunately, two days in, you're already predictable. <br />
You are right about one thing. I’m predictable. When I put things in this forum, I back up what I say with facts (ask Pointer94 ;) :p ). I know that really makes some people mad. :( <br /><br />As for that hypocrisy statement, you are really stretching it!! What should I have said? I’ve seen conservatives trying to blame Clinton for practically every problem this Administration has. So, tell me, how should have I worded it?
 

gafteci

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Kalian - I wasn't being condecsending. You said:<br /><br />
Gafteci, if all that were really true GWB woulda been out on his a** a long time ago. It would have been all over the news, and there would have been so much international saber rattling (or worse) there is no way the American public could have been shielded from it. I will say exactly what you said we would say. It's more liberal spin.
I gave you a link to the report from the Select Committee Intelligence for the US Senate. If you read it, you will see that what I said was true. There is no need to be condecsending when you are right, being right is it's own reward! :cool: <br /><br />Peace, Love, and Goodnight.
 

Kalian

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Originally posted by gafteci:<br /> Kalian - I wasn't being condecsending. You said:<br /><br />
... There is no need to be condecsending when you are right, being right is it's own reward! :cool: <br /><br />Peace, Love, and Goodnight.
Good night. Maybe one day you will be right.
 

QC

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

PW2, You answered my first question as to why we went. At least there is some logic to your reasoning and thank God you didn't say oil. I don't think you believe that we had anything to do with 9/11 ourselves, but your post sounds a little like we may have planned it . . . I will look for the PNAC.<br /><br />I agree on Iran, Pakistan and North Korea as far as being threats. That has no bearing on a decision to go into Iraq.<br /><br />I don't agree at all with gafteci's impervious proof that Bush lied. What the heck are "highly unusual give-and-take sessions"? You're hanging your hat on the word "stockpiles" . . . There are reams of intelligence that concluded Iraq had WMD. Also, this answer totally sidesteps the question of others outside of the US that also believed he had WMD. Did he pitch it to the American people? Yes, that's his job.<br /><br /><br />Disagreeing with going into Iraq is not the same thing as saying Bush lied. It is also not the same thing as undermining out troops or believing that Bush would be careless with American lives. I hate the way this war has been politicized. Who has the strength of their convictions in this deal? Bush, or all of the Democrats who voted to go in and now openly criticise the President for doing so? Who is willing to pursue a position in the most unstable area in the world? Not to destabilize, but to at least make an attempt at future stability. This is courageous stuff, not some group of trigger happy buffoons in a back room.
 

PW2

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

No, I never would suggest, nor do I believe, we had anything whatever to do with 9/11.<br /><br />Did Bush lie? Well, the administration does have a fabulous marketing department, and they were able to sell this action incredibly well.<br /><br />Had the neo-cons been correct, and the middle east multiple tyranical regimes had fallen like dominoes, Bush would have been (and rightly so) celebrated as the greatest American leader ever. Unfortunately, the neo-cons had a predictably over simplified view of world political events, and it was not likely to progress as advertised, and many many people (and other countries) knew this all too well.<br /><br />Do a google search for that PNAC (Project for a New American Century--Rebuilding Americas Defenses)<br /><br />It is something like 127 pages long, in .pdf format, but it is an interesting (if not scary) read. I read it online prior to the war, but it is likely still there somewhere.
 

LadyFish

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

"Did Iraq have WMD's?"<br /><br /><br />YES....one very evil one....Saddam Hussein....and we took him out of power.
 

Bondo

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Originally posted by LadyFish:<br /> "Did Iraq have WMD's?"<br /><br /><br />YES....one very evil one....Saddam Hussein....and we took him out of power.
Ayuh............ Great Point Ladyfish,.........<br /><br />Nobody has Defined WMD,....... <br />1 With a Heartbeat is No Doubt Much More Dangerious than 1 made of Metals,+ Explosives.........
 

gafteci

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Kalian - Real quick. The Weekly Standard is a far right wing magazine own by Rupert Murdoch, who owns FOX News. He lies to us everyday when FOX new says it is "Fair and Balanced"!!!<br /><br />Now the article, which I haven't read all of, but I will later today. I see that the authors are nit-picking at the Night Ridder article, bringing up minor inconsistencies. Please reread the report from the Select Committee Intelligence for the US Senate from the link that I supplied earlier, you will see that the NR article is correct. <br /><br />Who would you believe, a far right magazine owned by Rupert Murdoch or the bipartisan report from the Senate? I know, silly question. You obviously believe your pal Rupert.
 

QC

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

LadyFish said evil. LadyFish said evil . . . <br /><br />Apparently she missed the politically correct version I am trying to use: Really bad stuff done by really bad people . . . I guess in the context she used, simply "really bad" would be more grammatically correct :rolleyes:
 

JB

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Somebody pass the popcorn and get me a beer.
 

Kalian

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Gafteci, it took me less than 15 minutes to google and post a rebutal. I countered the knight ridder left wing comments with a right wing response to make a point. Any left wing post can be countered with it's opposite. We could go on for days like that and acomplish nothing. I could counter your msnbc article on "Select Committee Intelligence" with the obvious bias of the left wing media and their habit of "misreporting" facts and on and on. But that would just insure that this thread would go on and on without acomplishing anything. But I will give you this. It could (and I'm not saying it is,) be that that report is legitimate, (as opposed to politicaly inspired, or "misreported", etc.). If it is, then my response is the same as what I posted as a reply to PW2's post earlier in the thread. I don't want to be a sheep and blindly follow and support my president if he is truly bad for the country, but I don't want to desert him when he needs suport, just because his political opponents managed to manipulate the media and mislead the general public through lies and spin. Unless it is conclusively proven that GWB has bumbled the war, lied to the public for personal gain (as opposed to lied to ensure a strategic move was instituted to preserve our country) I will continue to support GWB and the war. I hope I have been able to express my thoughts acurately here, as I am not very eloquent, something you can surely tell by my posts. I gotta run, I'll check this thread later.
 

rodbolt

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

you go kailian<br /> I to support GWB and his administration for their forthright honesty at every interview and telling us what we need to hear,<br /> were would we be without GWB and his hand picked cadre of superior tactical and strategic planners.<br /> god bless em everyone for killing gods enemies.
 

Kalian

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Geez, so much for being honest. I won't make that mistake again. I shoulda just quoted Rush and been done with it.
 

OBJ

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Outta' beer JB.......Scotch?
 

JB

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Dang! This beer is warm and the popcorn is stale.<br /><br />How about chips and guacamole with Margaritas?
 

Kalian

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Messages
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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

could ya throw some of that scotch in the ring to my corner? I'm tired and outa breath and ready to give up! Gafteci done thrown me a rough one. ;)
 

QC

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Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Originally posted by JB:<br /> How about chips and guacamole with Margaritas?
I'm there, WMD or not!!!
 
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