Did Iraq have WMD?

[gafteci]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Sorry, Kalain, your argument doesn’t float. What I presented to you was an article from Night Ridder News Service. It is the countries 2nd largest newspaper publisher. It is mainly owned by Private Capital Management LP and Southeastern Asset Management Inc. Both companies that are only interested in MONEY, not politics! You on the other hand have an article from The Weekly Standard, which, as I’ve stated before, is owned by Rupert Murdoch!! You know Robert Murdoch, he’s the ‘Fair and Balanced’ news person, unlike NR New Service. Show me where NR is Liberal, and not just one article or from The Weekly Standard or other right wing sources. Show me a consistent bias. I will show you tons of articles where NR bashed Democrats and Liberals.<br /><br />So far, every time I put links on this forum, I’ve tried to put on middle of the road links, though I could have put on left wing sites. The only time I did otherwise is when I put a post by David Corn and I stated that he was a Liberal. I did not try to fool anyone. I did not try to slip anything by the other members of iboats. I might be arrogant (somewhat ) about my positions, but I put forth the facts as clear and concise as I can and back them up with middle of the road links. <br /><br />I also gave you a link to the report from the Select Committee Intelligence for the US Senate (I’m getting tired of cutting and pasting that ). For you to say that it came from a Liberal source is just plain wrong. First of all MSNBC is not Liberal and I can go into that on another post. But, what they posted wasn’t something that a reporter made up, but the exact report, unaltered!!! Please tell me how that is considered Liberal, especially when the Congress that created the report was controlled by Republicans?!?!?! <br /><br />I’m happy that you support our President. I really am….. O.K., I’m not. To blindly follow someone who refuses to tell the truth isn’t the smartest thing to do. There is just too much evidence that he has lied to the American people. I’ve given you links to the lies in this post and so has PW2. Just today I heard that Richard Cheney said again that there were ties to OBL and Saddam, something that GWB has denied!?!!! They can’t even get their story straight!! <br /><br />I can give you more info on Stephen B. Hayes, the person who wrote the article for The Weekly Standard. It comes from Media Matters , a “progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.” <br />I know that you will not want to read what they have to say about him, but if you do, you will see that they give you the entire article (or link to it) or quote that they are talking about and not just one sentence or bits of a sentence. That way you can see the whole context in which it was said or written.<br /><br />Here’s the info on Stephen B. Hayes: Media Matters - S. Hayes <br /><br />Enjoy or not, but it is the truth!!<br /><br /><br />Peace and Love

 

[ob]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

It's gotta be the absolute truth.Because you read it.Right?And the two companies that own NR news are not interested in politics, just making money is really very funny.Any publishing company that is second largest is smart enough to know that what got them to be second largest was printing what the consumer likes to read.<br /><br />I once read an article about three guys that were taken for a ride in a flying saucer.Their story has yet to be unmistakenly debunked.I think I read it in the Enquirer.<br /><br />Just popped from fresh corn.With salt and butter.

 

[gafteci]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

ob - you really didn't add anything to this post. You just spouted off some nonsense without backing it up. <br /><br />I continually hear from the right wing that the reason Talk Radio and Fox News is doing so well is that the American people are tired of all Liberal crap in the Media. That is just the opposite of what you just said. I am very, very confused (again)!!!

 

[ob]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

I agree.Fox news does lean to the right.That's why I mostly watch it.Well......... that and Laurie Due(sp?)Edit . Just googled it.Dhue. Now if you'll just realize that not just Fox news and others lean their own way ,you can have some of my popcorn.<br /><br />And just to be fair and balanced,let the readers decide on who contirbuted the most the the thread.

 

[gafteci]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

NO!!! I'll decide!! And.... And... you're a poopyhead!

 

[gafteci]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Just kidding! Really, I am.

 

[ob]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Originally posted by gafteci:<br /> NO!!! I'll decide!! And.... And... you're a poopyhead!

I can handle that.Poopyhead ain't so bad.

 

[gafteci]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Here's a cool site I found. I'm assuming it's left leaning but I haven't looked into it. I was actually looking for a different study when I found this:<br /> Liberal Media?

 

[KRS]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

rgr Kalian

 

[tuahcodem]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

kalian no and ob r.i.p.

 

[QC]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

I can't get past the first line of the summary. Blah blah "conservative economic agendas", as opposed to "liberal economic agendas" The almighty buck has no political affiliation.<br /><br />Try this:<br /> Media Bias

 

[gafteci]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Good morning, QC – It’s time to make the donuts, or in my case, donuts holes! <br /><br />It’s too bad that you didn’t read the link that I posted, it really does make sense.<br /><br />But, sorry to say, your link doesn’t. I’ve seen this “study” before and I know that it has been refuted. <br /><br />Here what was said by the “spokesman for The Wall Street Journal's publisher, Dow Jones & Company, in response to Groseclose and Milyo's study.”<br /><br /> http://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=10808 <br /><br />The Wall Street Journal is hardly a bastion of the Left, so I’m sure that you will believe what they have to say. <br /><br />I got the following from Media Matters (Liberal):<br /><br />

None of the outlets that reported on the study mentioned that the authors have previously received funding from the three premier conservative think tanks in the United States: the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research (AEI), The Heritage Foundation, and the Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace. Groseclose was a Hoover Institution 2000-2001 national fellow; Milyo, according to his CV (pdf), received a $40,500 grant from AEI; and, according to The Philanthropy Roundtable, Groseclose and Milyo were named by Heritage as Salvatori fellows in 1997. In 1996, Groseclose and Milyo co-authored a piece for the right-wing magazine The American Spectator, titled "Lost Shepherd," criticizing the then-recently defeated member of Congress Karen Shepherd (D-UT) and defending her successor, Enid Greene (R-UT); when the piece was published, Greene was in the midst of a campaign contribution scandal and later agreed to pay a civil penalty after the Federal Election Commission found (pdf) that she violated campaign finance laws.

And some more from Media Matters:<br /><br />

Any quantitative study of this sort must take a complex idea -- in this case, "bias" -- and operationalize it into something that can be measured. But given its rather odd operationalization of "bias," it is perhaps unsurprising that the study's scheme leads to some categorizations no observer -- on the right or the left -- could take seriously, including the following:<br />• National Rifle Association of America (NRA) scored a 45.9, making it "conservative" -- but just barely. <br />• RAND Corporation, a nonprofit research organization (motto: "OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS. EFFECTIVE SOLUTIONS.") with strong ties to the Defense Department, scored a 60.4, making it a "liberal" group. <br />• Council on Foreign Relations, whose tagline is "A Nonpartisan Resource for Information and Analysis" (its current president is a former Bush administration official; its board includes prominent Democrats and Republicans from the foreign policy establishment) scored a 60.2, making it a "liberal" group. <br />• American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), bête noire of the right, scored a 49.8, putting it just on the "conservative" side of the ledger. <br />• Center for Responsive Politics, a group whose primary purpose is the maintenance of databases on political contributions, scored a 66.9, making it highly "liberal." <br />• Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a defense policy think tank whose board of directors is currently chaired by former Representative Dave McCurdy (D-OK), scored a 33.9, making it more "conservative" than AEI and than the National Taxpayers Union.<br />

Sorry, QC, but I think that about sums up this so called “Media Bias” study. Now, could you please go back and read the link I posted on media bias and then try to refute it? I really want to know how you would dispute it. Maybe this could be a new thread?? <br /><br />Thanks.

 

[QC]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Yes, new thread. You start. I stand by my first response. Ownership having "conservative economic agendas" makes that report immediately biased. The other one at least tries to use an objective, mathematical approach. Starting with an assumption that you must be conservative to want to make money is absurd and naive at best, more like entirely stupid . . .<br /><br />BTW, I don't use or read most C & P stuff. These discussions are mostly about our opinions. I have also described myself as one big ball of inconsistency, so donut holes have always been a favorite of mine . . .

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

I think at this point in order to make any sense when discussing Bush (W), we need to define which W we're talking about.<br /><br />Is it the 'Cheney-Rove-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz' Bush that led us into Iraq or the 'Condaleeza Rice-Karen Hughes' Bush that seems to have emerged now that the war hasn't played out as predicted by the neo-cons?<br /><br />Bush has always said a leader doesn't need to know all of the details, he just needs to have the right people under him who do. Am I the only one who sees a marked difference in the president that would indicate he has shifted from the first set of people as trusted advisors to the second?

 

[JB]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

LL, you are so obsessed with "proving" the President did wrong that you can't see anything that can't be interpreted to fit your obsession.<br /><br />Now, who took my Margarita and we need some more guacamole.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Originally posted by JB:<br /> LL, you are so obsessed with "proving" the President did wrong that you can't see anything that can't be interpreted to fit your obsession.<br /><br />Now, who took my Margarita and we need some more guacamole.

<br />JB, methinks you may have that backwards . My post doesn't address whether I believe the president was wrong, rather an observation that I believe there has been a marked change in his whole persona w.r.t. the war and that it may be correlated with a switch in those that seem to be his closest advisors. <br /><br />I fail to see anything inflamatory against Bush in my post. I did say "the...Bush that led us into Iraq". I think most people would agree that Bush led us into Iraq, although obvously there is great disagreement in this forum as to whether it was the correct move or not. <br /><br />I also said that "...the war hasn't played out as predicted by the neo-cons". I doubt that we'd find much disagreement about that either. And nowhere did I imply that he was to blame for it not turning out as expected...<br /><br />My post was only about my perception that his whole persona w.r.t the war has changed, and that I think it may be correlated with a switch in the advisors he most trusts.<br /><br />Is it possible that you anticipated an attack on Bush and that anticipation colored your reading of my post? <br /><br />ps: drinking orange juice slush right now, but a little bit too early to add vodka to it. Got a couple of those mugs with the jell in the middle that you put in the freezer from the Dollar store. Freeze the mug first, add a drink, let it sit in the freezer for 10-15 minutes, and voila, a perfect frozen whatever you put in the mug, without watering it down with ice.<br /><br />Unfortunately my culinary skills aren't up to making guacamole (the only vegetables I buy are frozen).

 

[12Footer]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

<br />Sadamn from the courtroom;; "erum....no, that was a chlorine leak...yes. that's right.<br />she um---snuck into a water treatment plant, and um, got gassed by accident. that's the ticket.. <br /><br />treatment plant. yeah.<br /><br />what treatment plant? oh ...um...it was a new one that --- got--- bombed.yeah, that's what happened! danged bush and his cowboys leveled it, see."<br />

 

[JB]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Just a general rant about the compulsive attacks on GWB, LL. I guess I should have directed it at PW2 or txswinner or Haut Medoc.<br /><br />Ran out of Tequila and got grumpy.<br /><br />Okay, break out the 12 year old single malt and the marzepan. Where are my Cuban cigars?

 

[jimonica]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Okay, I know I'm getting in on this a little late.<br />But, I put the wife and kids up in a hotel for two days, while I resurfaced my floors. Fun! <br /><br />I thought we had this discussion before on WMD. I don't think anyone doubted that Saddam had chemical or biological weapons. We sold them to him! Any second year chemistry major with a little know how can develop a biological or a chemical WMD. If a person wanted to, they could get the instruction off the internet to make mustard gas from the chemicals under their sink!<br />I can't emphasise this enough, NUCLEAR, NUCLEAR, NUCLEAR! It was the nuclear weapons that pushed all of congress on board in giving Bush the authority to invade Iraq. Like gafteci said he needed to the nuclear threat to scare the American people to go along with the war.<br /><br />And since we all seem to have amnesia, lets go down all the charges on the nuclear weapons that proved to be false. Aluminum tubes, yellow cake uranium, smoking gun turns into a mushroom cloud and 45 minutes from a strike. At the very least no known basis for those statements and at the worst flat out lies.<br />

 

[jimonica]

Re: Did Iraq have WMD?

Great links gafteci, <br /><br />I really liked the statement about The Fairness Doctrine. <br /><br /> "The Fairness Doctrine was designed to prevent one-sided bias in the media by requiring broadcasters to air opposing views. It once enjoyed the broad support of both liberals and conservatives. But now that the media have become increasingly owned and controlled by corporations, conservatives defiantly oppose the Fairness Doctrine. This is probably the best proof that the media's bias is conservative, not liberal."<br /><br />I once asked some of our conservative friends on iboats, "If the media was really that liberal, why wouldn't the Republicans be clamoring for reinstatement of The Fairness Doctrine? And why was it under the Reagan administration that The Fairness Doctrine was revoked? As you might guess, I couldn't get a response. Kind of like its the Republicans that are fighting tooth and nail against a paper trail on the electronic voting machines. hummmmmm..... <br /><br /><br />BTW, does anyone think that it was just a coincidence that roughly the same time The Fairness Doctrine was revoked that right wing talk radio took off and it wasn't too much longer after that the Republicans took over congress after 40 years in Democrat controll?