Do these work???

[QC]

Re: Do these work???

The lake he is planning to run on is at 6800 ft. It may need that wingy thingy to simply plane although there are better alternatives. HeloMech, assuming you know helo's, I am sure you'll get the altitude concern. Where was the boat before? BTW, guys, this is a hijack. Generally we should be onto another thread here . . .

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Do these work???

After having dealt with a few boats with these installed to correct a 'slow to plane' condition, I pretty figure that so long as your willing to deal with some loss of top speed, and possibly some nasty hard cornering characteristics and the added load applied to your steering pin or outdrive, then they do serve a function. This no doubt is far more noticeable on boats which are on the underpowered side. Both smart tabs and hydrofoil fins both scrub off top speed, and aren't much different in that aspect. My biggest concern is the handling affect that a hydrofoil can create, I've seen some boats develop downright dangerous problems with the hydrofoil installed. Not to say that a good drive can't adapt to this, but it is a trade off.

In my opinion, for most concerns of getting on plane, smart tabs are the better choice, but I for one don't like them for smaller boats since they offer no tension adjustability.
From my experience, the hydrofoils work better on flatter bottom hulls, those with less deadrise when it comes to handling. The point I dislike the most about these 'fins' is the added load they put on your swivel pin and bushings as well as the transom.

 

[Hitech]

Re: Do these work???

Both smart tabs and hydrofoil fins both scrub off top speed, and aren't much different in that aspect.

Smart Tabs do NOT decrease top speed. They INCREASE it. The are very different in all but one aspect. They both provide lift to get on plane. Other than that, they have little in common.

 

[180shabah]

Re: Do these work???

...Both smart tabs and hydrofoil fins both scrub off top speed....

Not true, when smart tabs are setup properly they will not reduce top speed. In most cases, as mentioned above, they increase top speed slightly, by alowing you to get a little more hull out of the water without porpoising

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Do these work???

I get tired of rehashing misconceptions.

?if? needed in the first place, and set up correctly, neither product will reduce top speed, create handling issues, add a great deal of stress to the transom or motor, cause warts or infertility.

The big exception is on an I/O, there's little room for adjustments with a fin, so the type and style of fin may make a big difference. After that the owner needs to determine if the possible negative affects (if any) out weigh the benefits (if any).

 

[pinkham89]

Re: Do these work???

After having dealt with a few boats with these installed to correct a 'slow to plane' condition, I pretty figure that so long as your willing to deal with some loss of top speed, and possibly some nasty hard cornering characteristics and the added load applied to your steering pin or outdrive, then they do serve a function. This no doubt is far more noticeable on boats which are on the underpowered side. Both smart tabs and hydrofoil fins both scrub off top speed, and aren't much different in that aspect. My biggest concern is the handling affect that a hydrofoil can create, I've seen some boats develop downright dangerous problems with the hydrofoil installed. Not to say that a good drive can't adapt to this, but it is a trade off.

In my opinion, for most concerns of getting on plane, smart tabs are the better choice, but I for one don't like them for smaller boats since they offer no tension adjustability.
From my experience, the hydrofoils work better on flatter bottom hulls, those with less deadrise when it comes to handling. The point I dislike the most about these 'fins' is the added load they put on your swivel pin and bushings as well as the transom.

just throwing it out there.... what exactly do you mean by "downright dangerous problems"?

i generally use my boat for either fishing or the occasional cruise but was hoping to do a little tubing this summer. would there be any benifit to using a foil over the tabs? or vice versa?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Do these work???

just throwing it out there.... what exactly do you mean by "downright dangerous problems"?

i generally use my boat for either fishing or the occasional cruise but was hoping to do a little tubing this summer. would there be any benifit to using a foil over the tabs? or vice versa?

Buy tabs.

 

[n2ostroker]

Re: Do these work???

The foil that was on my boat when I got it made it downright dangerous.... If the water had any movement it would pull the boat over to the side when up on plane. Kinda like a motorcycle leans in turns or when you lean against the wind. The boat would do that against whatever current was coming at you. You could forget about cruising down a busy lake at any speed... I took it off and all the bad problems were gone. Then I threw it as far as I could..... The only problem was the boat picked up speed and then I had a touch of chine walk. Redistributed weight and fixed 99% of the problems with chine walk. By the way this was a 20' Thompson Cuddy with a 355 i/o. Took the boat out 2 days ago with some added winter power and was running 63-64mph as calm as could be.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Do these work???

Either product when set up incorrectly can create nasty handling problems at speed, people understand tabs better and normally know how to correct the problem without a great deal of help.

People think fins are supposed to do the same job, but have no idea of what to do when it doesn't work like it said on the package. I don't think I've even looked at the info they come with in a decade or two, so I don't know if the say anything about set up at all. I know they claim to cure just about every boating problem that exists though.

Every boat and hull combination is different and then factor in how people use the boat, all these variables make it very difficult to make blanket statements about whether, or how well either product will work.

The good thing about tabs is that when used correctly there are very few negative affects, far fewer boats would need a fin and they get used incorrectly in almost every application.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Do these work???

The foil that was on my boat when I got it made it downright dangerous.... If the water had any movement it would pull the boat over to the side when up on plane. Kinda like a motorcycle leans in turns or when you lean against the wind. The boat would do that against whatever current was coming at you. You could forget about cruising down a busy lake at any speed... I took it off and all the bad problems were gone. Then I threw it as far as I could..... The only problem was the boat picked up speed and then I had a touch of chine walk. Redistributed weight and fixed 99% of the problems with chine walk. By the way this was a 20' Thompson Cuddy with a 355 i/o. Took the boat out 2 days ago with some added winter power and was running 63-64mph as calm as could be.

This is the kind of response you get from many people. The fin was used to fix problems that didn't exist, somebody thought it was a bolt on and go product that would cure non existant issues and make all of life better. They don't, there is a narrow range of things it can help with and these are even more limited on an I/O.

 

[pinkham89]

Re: Do these work???

Ok. Well im running an old ('72??) 50 hp jonny o/b on the rear of a 14' steury runabout, so the motor seems sized proportionate to my use.... the only other thing i could think of was when i got the boat i ran right to a lake and tried her...... just as the previous owner set it up. I put the hydrofoil on it and started accelerating only to have the bow just about dunk under.... i ended up trimming the motor up 2 bolt holes with the fin and it seems to ride nice and flat. Would it be worth my time to take the fin off and see if the re-trim helped my wide open handling problems?


side note. without the fin and the motor trimmed waaay too far down with a buddy (who outweighs me by a good 100 or so) the boat had a tendancy to lean to my side at speed and on corners i'd gradually turn the wheel and it wouldn't respond to my turning.... and then all of a sudden she'd snap over hard and I'd have to correct. Is that just chinewalking or do y'all think somehing else might be the culprit? (and i do know without driving her it's hard for an outsider to say)

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Do these work???

If the bow is being pushed down by the trim angle, or too much weight is up front, then yes it can get scary at speed just like you found out.

Pull the fin off and see what happens, there's no other way to tell if its of any value.

 

[joey46987]

Re: Do these work???

I have a 16ft Creek Craft Sweet 16 with a 40hp Tohatsu. I was interested in putting tabs on my boat. Would it really be necessary to have them even in a flat bottom boat?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Do these work???

Although the discussion is about these products, its better to start your own thread with this question. It can be difficult to answer multiple question from different members and keep track of it all, they get lost and nobody knows what's being answered, or where to look for it.

 

[makbat]

Re: Do these work???

Hi,

I was reading the post about Hydrofoils on boats...i have a question maybe someone can help me.

I have regal 2150 LSc with volvo 4.3, the planing is slow when you have 4 people in the boat (when i`m alone in the boat its very nicer)
I was searching the net and i come up with http://www.rocketflap.com
non hidraulic flaps, but for my bad luck thay have stoped the production for some reasons,could you reffer to me some other brand for non-hidraylic flaps, and what is your opinion on those kind of flaps.

Thank you.

 

[OnTheWaterNow]

Re: Do these work???

I put a fin on my boat and love it planes twice to three times faster.I have better top end and better hole shot. No problem with handleing at all.Now my boat is a tri haul and is not under powered by any means

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Do these work???

Just to weigh in -- our 17 foot SeaRay 3.0 I/O we bought used came with one of those hydrofoil things attached by the previous owner. It was an unusual one in that it had a significant dihedral to the design (fins slope upwards on either side) as opposed to sticking straight out. It also had downward-facing winglets at either outer edge about two inches long. We ran the boat with that thing on for ten years with no handling issues throughout a wide range of steering inputs at all speeds.

So, keeping to the "if it ain't broke" principle I left it on. Top speed seemed reasonable for the power available. Hole shot similarly reasonable considering the smallish motor. I did notice once on plane I could throttle right back and stay up there which was useful for tubing with small kids -- perhaps it helped there.

As for it being "ugly" -- I never gave it much thought. More functional-looking if anything. Like putting winglets on a B737. Obviously not part of Boeing's original 1960s design vision, but if they help aerodynamics...what the hey. At least it was black like the rest of the alpha drive on the back.

Now I do kind of wish I had removed it for some trials. Perhaps I was giving up a few mph top end without realizing. I've got no such add-ons for the Yamaha on the Scout and no compelling reason to start experimenting. Although the Scout hull is much more prone to porposing than the SeaRay, that just needs a little more attention to trim settings than I needed in the past. Although just between you and me...sometimes a flat-out WOT run across glassy water trimmed up a bit too far is kinda fun...

 

[StevenT]

Re: Do these work???

Matbat

Checkout Smart Tabs. I've heard nothing but good about Smart Tabs. http://www.nauticusinc.com/

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Do these work???

......Would it be worth my time to take the fin off and see if the re-trim helped my wide open handling problems?......

Get or borrow a GPS and try it - YES it is worth it to try it without the foil. My boat is a 14' 'glass, 40hp suzuki. The trolling plate I have is supposed to double as a "'foil" but I can tell you for a fact that it tows tubes a lot less readily with the plate on, and in WOT with no tube it runs 28-ish with the plate on, and 32-ish without the plate- which is marketed as improving top speed

Other than a few bass guys, the 'foils in use that I know of personally may change the handling of a boat, but in most circumstances they are expected to compensate for a "problem" which is best addressed in another way, like adequate HP or proper trim or a different prop or removing excess weight/people.

So I would say, "yes!" try yours with and without and make up your mind if it works for you.

 

[grego]

Re: Do these work???

IMHO! Gotta love the aiplane issue! "SORRY!!!" when landing and you want to slow down, you use flaps to bleed off speed, you lower two trim tabs, built for one purpose!!! slowing to a managable landing speed. IF YOU! use flaps on takeoff, you will have a handfull getting off the ground and may NOT make the end of runway. Lots of power needed to counteract drag from flaps or trim tabs Only makes sence!