Green White Checker

[TilliamWe]

Okay, I am not a die hard fan, and I don't watch every race. But I have watched more than 3 this year. Is it just me or does nearly EVERY race end with a late caution, when one car is running away from the field? NASCAR seems a little too "staged" to me lately.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Green White Checker

Almost like NFL, the winner is decided in the last few seconds of the game/race. Still fun to watch IMO.......SS

 

[skargo]

Re: Green White Checker

Not sure how they staged Scott Speed running into the wall?

Racers get frantic as the laps wind down, it's the nature of racing!

I love the new rule, potentially 3 shots at a green white checker, it sure beats ending under the yellow in my opinion.

 

[achris]

Re: Green White Checker

I don't get nascar.... What is it with just going round in a circle? Do they do any real racing there? You know, on a proper racing course... nascar seems to be 'he who gets the most horsepower on the ground wins'... ie, the man with the deepest pockets, no real skill in driving. Just put a quarter turn of the steering wheel and away we go... Throw in a few corners and these guys will be lost... Bring on V8 Supercar!!!

C.......

 

[kend301]

Re: Green White Checker

I races stock cars for many years , there were many nights when I just told my spotter to let me know when there is 25 to go, ran the race at 85% of what the car could do and saved the car/tires for the last 25 laps. It gets insane on the track once all the "give and take" between drivers is gone. You do not know how many times you give a little to avoid a wreck during the race. As was said last night you can only win on the last lap but you can lose on any lap. The green white checker gives the fans a chance to see the race end under green with a race to the flag. That is what they pay to see. And it can suck for drivers , I lost a 10k to win late model race after leading 197 of 200 laps , late caution (the rule then was last 10 laps under green so caution laps do not count as race laps) , spun the tires on the restart got tapped coming off 2 had to lift to save it and finished 3rd. But the rules are the same for everyone and nothing is staged . Except for the mystery debris caution with about 50 laps to go to tighten up the field

 

[skargo]

Re: Green White Checker

I don't get nascar.... What is it with just going round in a circle? Do they do any real racing there? You know, on a proper racing course... nascar seems to be 'he who gets the most horsepower on the ground wins'... ie, the man with the deepest pockets, no real skill in driving. Just put a quarter turn of the steering wheel and away we go... Throw in a few corners and these guys will be lost... Bring on V8 Supercar!!!

C.......

You couldn't be further from the truth. They are regulated on HP, so no to the deepest pockets.
No real skill in driving???? Then why aren't you and I doing it?

You do realize the race on road courses too, right?

There is WAY more than going in circles LOLOLOL

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Green White Checker

You couldn't be further from the truth. They are regulated on HP, so no to the deepest pockets.
No real skill in driving???? Then why aren't you and I doing it?

You do realize the race on road courses too, right?

There is WAY more than going in circles LOLOLOL

Yeah, for the most part skargo is right on with this one.

I understand that things get frantic near the end of a race. I would understand it more if the second place car or even third placed car wrecked trying to catch the leader who is close. But when a back marker suddenly loses control or some "debris" appears ont he track, I am sorry, that just appears that the "fix is in". And that's who it is, nearly every week, some guy in 20th, 30 seconds behind that wrecks. Some teammate of the guy in second, who is falling farther and farther behind the leader. You guys don't see it that way?

I agree the green-white-checker is MUCH more exciting than ending under caution. But it makes an already irrelevent 480 miles, TOTALLY irrelevent. (My wife was just complaining about that last night, when there were still 250 laps in the race, and the announcers were acting all excited!) And it gives an unfair advantage to drivers that had no chance of winning the race. Kind of like the Chase gives an unfair advantage to the cars that had NO legitimate chance of winning the season long championship. I know JJ has won 4 of those in a row, but you realize that #2 he would have been beaten by Jeff Gordon, right? They don't reward the leader at the end of the regular season enough in the Chase.

For these reasons, the casual fan, like my wife, turn the sport off. NASCAR has got to realize that right?

 

[Jeff-in-PA]

Re: Green White Checker

I don't get nascar.... What is it with just going round in a circle? Do they do any real racing there? You know, on a proper racing course... nascar seems to be 'he who gets the most horsepower on the ground wins'... ie, the man with the deepest pockets, no real skill in driving. Just put a quarter turn of the steering wheel and away we go... Throw in a few corners and these guys will be lost... Bring on V8 Supercar!!!

C.......

If it's so easy, come on over and clean up. Some people are tired of seeing Jimmiw Johnson win all those championships in a row.

It's not a "sunday drive in the park". They are running at the edge all race long.

Wasn't Marcos Ambrose a V8 Supercar champion? He's doing OK but not exactly cleaning everyone's clock.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Green White Checker

PLenty of "real racing" as you put it achris, just in other series'.

Like SCCA, American LeMans, IRL, WKA DIRT, SVRA, AMA, AHRMA, CCS, KIC, IMSA, Rolex Grand AM, MCSSC, NASA Rally Sport, Rally America, USRC, and CORR.

 

[QC]

Re: Green White Checker

My spin(out) on this . . .

Not sure how they staged Scott Speed running into the wall?

Exactamente!! One of the reasons I like NASCAR so much is the role of the sponsor. Do any of you actually believe that Sponsors putting up $10M to $50M would tolerate staged finishes? Despite the assumed funny business because of the dollars floating around personally I believe that sponsors keep this sport honest.

I don't get nascar.... What is it with just going round in a circle?

"Circles" guarantee a better experience for fans and also TV. At any time, at most tracks, a fan can see all of the cars. Ovals also provide for more passing, and fenders provide for more rubbing and close contact, and incidentally more room for logos. This wasn't obvious to me when I first got into it. But the fact is you need fans, TV and Sponsors to make a Racing series go. NASCAR offers better opportunities for all three.

nascar seems to be 'he who gets the most horsepower on the ground wins'

They are regulated on HP, so no to the deepest pockets.

This is where I will disagree with skargo. Yes, there are "limits" (intake air restrictor plate) on Daytona and Talladega tracks, but the only other real limits to power are pre-determined rear end ratio (limits RPM), pushrod design and some other stuff. Other than that they can do what they want with them. With that said, horsepower definitely matters, but most drivers would ask for better handling I think. I have seen lap times go up more than once when a car loses a cylinder . . .

Wasn't Marcos Ambrose a V8 Supercar champion? He's doing OK but not exactly cleaning everyone's clock.

I am a Marcos fan and think he is doing an amazing job considering how difficult racing ovals is and how different it is from road courses. Ask any previous road course expert, Montoya, both Gordons, Mears, Ron Fellows, Boris Said etc. etc. etc where the toughest competition and toughest racing job is

 

[DJ]

Re: Green White Checker

Oh boy! Here we go, another NASCAR debate.

Personaly, I don't watch ANYTHING professional.

There is a whole lot more excitement and fun in watching ametuer anything.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Green White Checker

My spin(out) on this . . .


Exactamente!! One of the reasons I like NASCAR so much is the role of the sponsor. Do any of you actually believe that Sponsors putting up $10M to $50M would tolerate staged finishes? Despite the assumed funny business because of the dollars floating around personally I believe that sponsors keep this sport honest...

Ever heard the line, "no such thing as bad press"? If the Red Bull car is gonna finish 20th, with no camera time, it's not a horrible thing to have it hit the wall, and get camera time. Besides, the sponsor's check has already been cashed. And if it's just a minor brush, which some of these late race caustions seem to be, the car is easily repaired, just the same as it was going to be for the next race, anyway. So I am gonna respectfully disagree that all these late wrecks are completely unintentional.

NASCAR mandates rear end ratios and max RPMS? I did not know that. Sounds like F1 territory.

 

[QC]

Re: Green White Checker

They mandate rear end ratios, I think it is only two per track. That in effect limits the RPM "band" they can work with by not allowing a higher numeric ratio you can't show up with a 1000 more RPM and do anything wit it . . . The idea was to keep costs down by limiting RPM gains that kept climbing and require higher buck pieces.

Intentionally running into the wall for press time would be a driver/team decision, not NASCAR's . . . And even though the Sponsor check is cashed you do want them back next season. Here might be a better example. Jeff Gordon and JJ are 1 & 2. Rick Hendrick gets on the radio and says "Jimmy, you need to let Jeff win this one as I want both of you in the chase". What's Lowe's gonna say? My point being that if NASCAR or owners were doing things that changed the outcome in favor of one car or the other, don't you think the people that lay out the biggest chunks O' change might take their money elsewhere?

 

[QC]

Re: Green White Checker

From Wikipedia (consider the source, but NASCAR does not publish this stuff):

Gear Rule

Among the major series, NASCAR will enforce restrictions on the gear ratios teams may use at certain race tracks. NASCAR will provide teams a choice of possible differential gear ratios, while the highest transmission gear must be a 1:1 ratio and no other gear may be higher than 1.28:1. Overdrive gears are not permitted.[22] The purpose of the rule is to lower the maximum RPM of the engines during races thus lowering the cost of building race engines.[23] This is in contrast with other series such the IRL IndyCar Series or V8 Supercar which limit engine speed electronically.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Green White Checker

Bring on V8 Supercar!!!

Racing Ford Falcons.....Ha!!!

 

[skargo]

Re: Green White Checker

I've been a fan for 30+ years and while I don't agree with all the changes, most have been good, and beneficial to driver safety, it's terrible to watch your favorite driver die.

 

[DJ]

Re: Green White Checker

It's kind of like watching Golf or MLB. Eight minutes of action JAM Packed into four hours. When you boil it down, you watched two hours of commercials.

I've got better ways to spend four hours.

 

[skargo]

Re: Green White Checker

It's kind of like watching Golf or MLB. Eight minutes of action JAM Packed into four hours. When you boil it down, you watched two hours of commercials.

I've got better ways to spend four hours.

They have this new invention called DVR, check it out sometimes. Commercials, what are they?

 

[Jeff-in-PA]

Re: Green White Checker

.........


I am a Marcos fan and think he is doing an amazing job considering how difficult racing ovals is and how different it is from road courses. Ask any previous road course expert, Montoya, both Gordons, Mears, Ron Fellows, Boris Said etc. etc. etc where the toughest competition and toughest racing job is

I like Marcos too. I think he's enjoying himself entirely too much.

You've mentioned some very good road racers that ( some ) had only moderate success. Just more proof how close the competition is now.

Check out qualifying times from 15 years ago. There would be quite a few seconds from the pole sitter to halfway back in the pack. Now it's thousands of a second between first and tenth on the short tracks.

 

[DJ]

Re: Green White Checker

They have this new invention called DVR, check it out sometimes. Commercials, what are they?

Let me see if I have this right.

I pay a cable bill which used to be COMMERCIAL FREE to watch commercials. Now I have to buy a DVR to skip the commercials?

Nah, I'd rather go sit on the bleachers of a high school game or the local dirt track and enjoy myself.