Grey Spark Plug Scum

[ezeke]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

What is important is the specification in your 1975 135HP OMC service manual: Specifications page 2-2: "Timing ..............20? @ 4300-4600 RPM, in gear"

That setting was generally, and ideally, made in a test tank, using a test wheel.

You can't do anything with that 20? setting without first checking the timing pointer to be sure that it is exact.

I believe that Mr Reeves did mean for his method to be used with your engine and that the 4 degree setting is correct. It is also important to take nothing out of context, which I believe is why he adds these words:

"If you set the engine to its true setting at cranking speed, when running it will advance beyond its limit by 4? which will set up pre-ignition causing guaranteed piston damage! You don't want that to take place."


http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=228183

I would certainly recommend that you correspond directly with Mr. Reeves if you have any doubt. By clicking on his user name you will get the link for a PM (personal message).

In the meantime see entry #16 in the following thread:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=176669&highlight=WOT+Timing

 

[Randyg123]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

I believe that Mr Reeves did mean for his method to be used with your engine and that the 4 degree setting is correct. It is also important to take nothing out of context, which I believe is why he adds these words:

"If you set the engine to its true setting at cranking speed, when running it will advance beyond its limit by 4? which will set up pre-ignition causing guaranteed piston damage! You don't want that to take place."


http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=228183

I would certainly recommend that you correspond directly with Mr. Reeves if you have any doubt. By clicking on his user name you will get the link for a PM (personal message).

In the meantime see entry #16 in the following thread:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=176669&highlight=WOT+Timing

I saw that comment re: the Fast Start issue but I do not believe I have that on my engine. I was hoping that Mr. Reeves would have chimed in by now but I will PM him as you suggested if that is acceptable protocol (not being invited to PM).

 

[ezeke]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

You don't have it (QuikStart A/K/A fast start), but if you did, you would disable it, then follow the instructions.

 

[Randyg123]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

You don't have it (QuikStart A/K/A fast start), but if you did, you would disable it, then follow the instructions.

Good, I didn't think I had it, but I have no idea what has been done to this engine by the previous owner(s).

Well I checked it out again and came up with the same results as last time - 18 degrees. So plus four and that gives 22. Timing has been set at this point as long as I have had the boat (about five years). So something is just not right. I can only retard it about 1.5 more turns.

It seems that even a minor pointer adjustment wouldn't account for this much error. Is there a part or other indication I can look for that would confirm the fast start feature has been "added" to this engine? (If it could). Maybe someone added it to this frankenstein motor.

 

[Benny1963]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

hey hows it going non of the 70s had the fast star feature
the time needs to be 4 degrees less if you are useing joes method
the timer base must be against the stop ,you must have a good battery and starter follow his system to a tee and if you cant get your timeing to specs
then you may have another prob,set your timeing to your manuals specs for your engine minus 4 degrees
as was said a lot of us arent outboard mechs .so you have to take the info and double check with manual and some of the actual techs on here
i just went thru the procedure with my 175 crossflow .
you must set timeing pointer to be sure that it is correct .
before you start unless you are positive it is correct,but to me the only way is to check you pointer alighnment .
i hunted post asked questions and used my manual
there is a great amount of info on the pointer alighment on here
search timeing and go thru all post and you will find lots of info .
includeing some of my questions .hang in there you will get it

 

[ezeke]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

QuikStart is a feature of certain powerpacks from the late eighties up. It was used on loopers and your motor is a crossflow. It receives RPM signals from the ignition and the temperature from a black and white wire coming from a temperature switch in the cylinder head and running to the powerpack.

 

[Randyg123]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

Thanks for all the assistance.
It seems like there is nothing else I can do to this engine.
I was hoping I could figure this out

 

[Randyg123]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

QuikStart is a feature of certain powerpacks from the late eighties up. It was used on loopers and your motor is a crossflow. It receives RPM signals from the ignition and the temperature from a black and white wire coming from a temperature switch in the cylinder head and running to the powerpack.

Thanks, definitely not on my engine. That issue is over for me.
I hate to keep going on this but I am trying to clear up a lot of unknowns in my head.

I am going to make an assumption that my timing is set okay. Why, because that is where it has been for years and from the comments so far, It ain't going to change by itself! And by 'okay', I mean not too advanced that it would cause the pistons to disintegrate or exhaust gasket to blow. Plus all I did was try to retard it as much as possible and that was only about 1.5 turns. Before I messed with it, the motor ran pretty good at WOT. It ran smooth and had good throttle response.

So that leaves the more likely candidate (go with the obvious). The problems I am now having with the grey crud on a plug must be linked to what I have done over these past few weeks. So here is a question based on that assumption, if the timing is truly set at about 3-4 degrees advanced (and has been that way for at least five years), could the engine have survived in this "advanced-timing" condition? What if someone changed the carburation or linkage to compensate? Or would the poor ignition coils (I replaced all four) have kept the engine from self-destructing? And now that I have replaced the coils and set everything where it should be (minus the timing), the engine is NOW displaying symptoms of the advanced timing problem.

With the plugs out, I have looked into the cylinders at the piston and don't really see much difference in them. Of course, it is just a small area I am viewing. I can still read the part numbers that line up with the plug holes but the surfaces do look like 120-grit sandpaper. If I did heat one up enough to get aluminum on the plug, wouldn't that cylinder look different?

Another question, how do the two carbs feed the engine? Top to #2 and #1 and bottom to #4 and #3, or is the incoming air/fuel from both carbs going to the same space?


I know I've posted a lot of questions. Just trying to learn what I can Forgive my ingorance.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

Top to #2 and #1 and bottom to #4 and #3

.......... Yes.


Just out of curiosity, have you checked the WOT timing while on the water? Have you verified the correct placement of your timing pointer?

 

[Benny1963]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

as the outdoors man said you might verify you wot timeing under load at wot
simply back you boat in at the launch strapped down sink your lower good fire it up make sure your getting a good stream from taletell.
make sure your parking break is on and run your motor in gear up to wot and shootit with timeing light .to tell if you have a lean cyl just shoot some premix into each side of the carb checking the holes to see if one is lean
if you spray the carb hole and it stumbles you are good if you spray the hole and it raises the idle you have a lean situation on that carb on that cyl
the outboard mech that does mine when i dont will not static time it
he puts it in a tank on trailer and sets it .
i set mine up by joe reeves method after verifying timeing pointer
but i will still take it to the river on trailer and check wot timeing .
good luck sounds like a strong motor ,check it on the water

 

[F_R]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

Sounds like you have pretty much beat the timing issue to death by now. But not answered the question: What is the wet gray scum? I immediatly said in my mind, "thats water". Are you still getting it, or was that a false alarm? If you are getting water in there it will totally destroy the powerhead. Likely cause is exhaust cover gaskets or worse yet, metal eaten away somewhere in there. Happens often in salt water. Takes longer in fresh water.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

I agree wholeheartedly with FR. If you continue to run the outboard while constantly observing the grey "matter" on the plugs, you'll be observing it soon from the inside out. All the timing pointer setting and WOT timing setting is useless in regards to fixing that issue. And it will soon self destruct. Can you post some photo's of the grey "matter" IF you are still experiencing it?

 

[Randyg123]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

I have not run the motor since I noticed the grey scum. Tow problems were offered to me when I reported it. 1) water 2) aluminum. If it was water, then most likely a head gasket. Check the compression and that was good so that points to aluminum.

I have been afraid to run the motor now, fearing I will toast it in just a few minutes. So I have done nothing but visual and recheck the WOT (dry). If it is okay to run it a little bit, I'll get it out today and do some wet testing.

Can you really run the boat at WOT while still on your trailer. Seems like it could buck off or do something that would end up on "America's Funniest Home Movies"

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

Randy, here's a quote from ezeke earlier in your thread........

You might also get a gray-white looking substance from oil and water mixing in the cylinder if the cylinder(s) did not fire.

Normally, water in the cylinders turns to steam if there is good fire, that cleans the spark plugs and leaves them looking good. (Your's are not. They are wet looking as per your previous postings. Check your fire.)

The compression test may let you know if there is a blown head gasket, but will not tell you if the exhaust gasket is leaking.

* Have you verified that you are indeed getting good fire? Jumping a 7/16's gap in open air with a spark tester?

* Have you replaced the exhaust gasket? Head gasket?

If you are concerned about the grey "matter", which I'm certain you are, replace the suggested items, verify you are getting good spark, and yes.... you can check the WOT timing on the ramp as suggested above. Just be sure to use some common sense when attempting this. Nobody here wants to read about some boater who ran his boat up into the back of his truck...... ...... Just leave the rig tied to the trailer and make a quick check of the WOT timing with the help from a friend. If the above mentioned suggestions don't take care of your grey "matter" on the plugs, you might consider removing the head and making a visual inspection of the cylinder walls, pistons, and rings to verify you have no internal damage present prior to further troubleshooting.

I have been afraid to run the motor now, fearing I will toast it in just a few minutes.

There's really no other way to troubleshoot. No fear, if the grey matter is indeed aluminum, it's likely toasted already. Like others here, I don't think it is. If you had internal damage the compression test would likely have pointed this out. However, water in the cylinders is a definite recipe for disaster and needs to be repaired ASAP. Are you running the outboard in a salt water envioronment? Has it been used in salt water often? Some photo's might be helpful to others in diagnosing your issues. Replace the plugs and check them for the grey matter after your testing.

 

[Benny1963]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

ae they have said i was talking about the timeing but i also blew a head gasket due to overheat , got so mhot it warped i changed head gasket surfaced head and changed exhaust gasket cleared up the water prob bur on mine i had overheated it[ bad] cost me two cyls. and a wrist pin bearing
also ,
they are right as long as water is present the damage from that would take
top priority , i changed my head gaskets and ex gaskets for about 30
bucks
good luck

 

[Randyg123]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

............
* Have you verified that you are indeed getting good fire? Jumping a 7/16's gap in open air with a spark tester?

* Have you replaced the exhaust gasket? Head gasket?...................

There's really no other way to troubleshoot. No fear, if the grey matter is indeed aluminum, it's likely toasted already. Like others here, I don't think it is. If you had internal damage the compression test would likely have pointed this out. However, water in the cylinders is a definite recipe for disaster and needs to be repaired ASAP. Are you running the outboard in a salt water envioronment? Has it been used in salt water often?

First, thanks to all for your assistance. I wanted to do some more troubleshooting to determine if the grey matter was a freak occurance or not. I feared further testing would turn a bad situation into a really bad situation. It appears that putting the boat in the water and running it around a bit may be okay thing to do. I don't want to keep putting $$$ into a dead horse (yuck, that was a bad metaphore).

I got the boat when my father-in-law passed away about six years back. He lived in B'ham, Alabama. I'm in Tulsa so I doubt this old bass boat has seen much saltwater.

Spark good on all four, even tested them at 1/2" and 9/16" by accident. Silly me, I did these gaps first becasue I couldn't remember if mine were supposed to be 1/2 or 9/16 so I did both. Started at 9/16 and got spark on two of them and partially one one, zero on the fourth. Then I dropped the gap down to 1/2 and got good spark on all four. Then re-read the manual (still using Clymer's at that time) and saw it was supposed to be 7/16.
Of course, 7/16" showed good spark on all.

Have not changed the exhaust gasket since this ordeal started. I have done nothing mechanical yet.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

I'd suggest you use the Clymer to start a good fire this coming winter. They cover too many models to be of much use. Purchase an OEM manual. You'll be absolutely glad you did. No comparison.

 

[Randyg123]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

I'd suggest you use the Clymer to start a good fire this coming winter. They cover too many models to be of much use. Purchase an OEM manual. You'll be absolutely glad you did. No comparison.

Thanks, I already picked up an OEM on eBay a few weeks back. That's when I was able to finally do a link-n-sync and find out about the timing issue. Ignorance was bliss The Clymer was definitely confusing and had some major booboos. But the OEM takes for granted that I know what the heck I'm doing.....Big Mistake, hah

Hopefully I've got all my honey-dos done and will be out of here in an hour or so to see if I am still getting the grey stuff. I may check the WOT on the triler, just depends on how everything else goes.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: Grey Spark Plug Scum

If possible, and your still getting the scum, take some photo's of exactly what your seeing and post them here for others to see. This would be very helpful for other members.

Here's a question for more knowledgable members here........ Is the link and sync for his 1975 Johnson 135 at all like that of my 1979 Evinrude 140? If it is the same I can offer him some great reading, directly from R. Johnson, that he will benefit greatly from. The information is much easier to follow than that of the manual, concerning the throttle syncronization. All the jabbering in the OEM manual about "top embossed marks" and what-not really confused me too, until I got this from Mr. Johnson. I will not post the information unless others can verify the settings are the same.

 

[Randyg123]

It's raining and pouring!!!

It's raining and pouring!!!

When it rains...it pours

Wish I could get you the answers you need on the plugs. I was just out getting the boat hooked up and notice one of the trailer tires blew a chunk of tread off. The spare is not even the same size (never noticed that) so I am not sure if I will bother even putting it on and driving it to the water (about 50 miles roundtrip).

It just never ends!