How much would you invest in this Johnson - EDIT: Pictures added?

[Campylobacter]

I'm going to guess this is the first of many posts here. Sorry for its length.

I just purchased a 1991 Johnson J40TLE. It came on a pontoon boat I am restoring, with no guarantees about its condition. The guy only had the boat for 6 months and gave up trying to get it restored. The one thing he did do was take off the VRO.

Today I decided to give the motor and check to see if it was worth anything. I got it running, but only very briefly as there was no water coming out the tell tale hole so I shut it down. (after disconnecting the buzzer, long story for a different thread)

I removed the lower unit and checked the impeller, it look good but not great so I kept going. Did a compression test, got 140 on the top cylinder, 130 on the bottom. Then I took off the carbs and did a mild cleaning. Put everything back together and tried to start it again, no go. I try to trouble shoot, and I am pretty sure the guy removed the fuel pump when he took off the VRO. I cannot find a fuel pump at all, just a fuel filter where the pump should be, then the line goes straight to a 3 way splitter that feeds the carb and the electric choke.

A couple questions: (I'm a noob that learned everything I know about 2 stroke outboards TODAY)

1. Could I have got this thing started (albeit briefly) without a fuel pump?
2. If I can find the pump in the bucket of stuff he gave me, can you use a VRO fuel pump without the oil as a gas pump?
3. Any other tests I should do before I decide if this motor is any good? and finally
4. How much would you invest in an unknown condition 23 year old motor (I was encouraged by the compression, but still unsure).

Thanks in advance.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

1) if the fuel bowl is full of fuel, it will start with no fuel pump until it runs the fuel down too low in the bowl.
2) I don't know.
3) Do you mean how much would I invest in the motor FURTHER? Maybe a couple of hundred to get the fuel system working and a water pump impeller and see how she ran, then go from there. The compression is worrysome being 10psi different, but it should still run good if there are no rings broken or other problems. I would remove the intake bypass covers if it has them and take a peak at the pistons/rings. If no bypass covers, the exhaust cover can be removed and you can see the pistons. HOWEVER, there is the risk of breaking the bolts off when removing exhaust covers. If no major piston scuffing or broken rings, I'd not be too worried about investing a few dollars to get the fuel system working properly. THe 23 yrs. doesn't scare me--it's the bungled fuel/oiling system that would make me a little nervous.
JMO,
JBJ

 

[racerone]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

No bypass covers and no exhaust covers on this motor !--------Pump can be used for " fuel only " on this motor.

 

[Campylobacter]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Do you mean how much would I invest in the motor FURTHER?

The motor was basically a freebee, I was buying the pontoon regardless of the motor. In addition to the Impeller and fuel pump, it need a the "air silencer" (the part that that bolts to the front of the carbs ), because he lost that. I'd still be in it for only about $200.

The compression is worrysome being 10psi different, but it should still run good if there are no rings broken or other problems.... THe 23 yrs. doesn't scare me--it's the bungled fuel/oiling system that would make me a little nervous.

I've always heard that +/- 10% was OK. And the bungled fuel system is very recent. The guy took it off because "he didn't trust it" and never got it on the water after.

 

[Campylobacter]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

No bypass covers and no exhaust covers on this motor !--------Pump can be used for " fuel only " on this motor.

Any idea about the 10 PSI difference and how bad that might be without being able to "take a look"?

Pump can be used for " fuel only " on this motor.

I think he gave me the old pump (I have to go to the lake to get it) with the oil tank and other items he had removed from the pontoon. Hopefully he didn't bungle it so much I can't get it to work.

 

[boobie]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Gather up all the parts you can and then get back to us.

 

[175se]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

if the pump was removed plug ,check the bottom front port (left) side to see if there is a small brass plug or else you it might surprise you with the noise. that is where the pump is driven from.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

The 10 psi difference could be no biggie at all and it may be fine---as you've heard, 10% difference is considered acceptable.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Guess another question would be, what's it worth to you as a running engine? Would you use it or put it up for resale?
In this area where I'm at it could be worth $500.00 - $1200.00 in running condition, market is pretty wide open. Even nonrunning it's still worth a few hundred as a parts engine.

 

[Campylobacter]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Got back from the lake today, here are the pictures of what the guy took off

Here are some pics of the motor where I think the pump should go:

 

[Campylobacter]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Guess another question would be, what's it worth to you as a running engine? Would you use it or put it up for resale?

I would use it, and if I didn't I would likely buy motor for 1-2 thousand for the pontoon I'm restoring. So if I could be fairly certain I can get it running and reliable I would spend the cash. I just don't want to spend a lot on this motor and then have it be a dog or unreliable.

 

[175se]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson?

no that's not where it goes, look on the pump see those 3 rubber things sticking out, I believe they go to the back of the air box the pix is where a regular pump would go.

 

[racerone]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson - EDIT: Pictures added?

The last 2 pictures show where the non mixing fuel pump would mount.--A cheaper ( better ? ) unit.--------------Just order a pump for a 48 hp motor or the commercial model of your 2 cylinder motor.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson - EDIT: Pictures added?

Campy, I have 3 of these 2 cylinder engines in my garage right now. They are fine engines and were in production for many years with minor changes over those years but basically unchanged.

I would keep it also so it may be worth while to go and find an OEM repair/service manual. They are quite detailed and cover everything you will ever need. I have good luck finding them on ebay.

As for this one, 1st I'd get that VRO fuel pump back on it and see if it pumps fuel. Leave the oil side of the pump disconnected at the electrical plug and plug the oil line so it wont suck air. Then hopefully it will fire and run. From there you can get a better assessment of what it will need and how much it's going to cost. I'd also recheck that compression, if still unchanged fog a bit of oil on the low one and see if it goes up.

 

[Campylobacter]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson - EDIT: Pictures added?

I would keep it also so it may be worth while to go and find an OEM repair/service manual.

I ordered a service manual on Ebay, I guess I'm all in on this motor

As for this one, 1st I'd get that VRO fuel pump back on it and see if it pumps fuel. Leave the oil side of the pump disconnected at the electrical plug and plug the oil line so it wont suck air.

I also ordered a "normal" fuel pump, before I read your post. I've read they are more reliable anyway?

I'd also recheck that compression, if still unchanged fog a bit of oil on the low one and see if it goes up.

How troubling is the difference on the two cylinders?

 

[itsaboattime]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson - EDIT: Pictures added?

As stated before, fog it with a little oil and see if the numbers come up. If I were you I'd do a decarb after I got the fuel pump on and heard it run. Actually I'd pull the head and inspect the water jacket, cylinders and pistons. Just for peace of mind. I'd look for scoring and clean as much carbon out as I could. Head gaskets are relatively inexpensive.
But I would only invest the time after I got the fuel pump on and got it to start.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: How much would you invest in this Johnson - EDIT: Pictures added?

The 10 lbs isn't a huge difference but may be enough to show concern. If it was 15lbs then even more so and would look into it closer. At this point it could just be a stuck ring or even a bad head gasket. Could also just be a poor reading.

I add that last comment because of what I found on a 1987 Johnson 50hp. In that instance I picked up the engine used and it was supposed to have a bad cylinder in it. I basically bought it for the Power Tilt'n Trim it had on it. So I got it home and began fooling around with it and out of couriosity I did a compression test on it and amazingly both cylinders come up even at 145lbs! The head was already marked in paint marker as 140 top and 120 on the bottom.

I'll find out more about this one as soon as it warms up enough to get back out into the garage.