I am Back With Wet Foam

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

ok I was able to get one layer of 1708 down on the deck with the epoxy resin. I have been doing lot's of reading the last little while and my biggest concern is waterproofing. Going with layer after layer of 1708 or csm is just adding weight to any boat.

When I took the boat apart the design and strength was not an issue or a concern to me. I am more concerned about waterproofing after I have sufficient material to do the job for strength. I was able to take the hull tab off my boat with a scraper, so I don't believe there was ever a chemical bond there.

I am voicing my opinions on lot's of reading. In the document I attached in the above post it shows that it don't matter what product you use it is not 100% waterproof. So that being said I feel it don't matter how thick you go with anything it is not waterproofing.

I been thinking I have the strength built up and if using polyester I could have used another layer of csm on the deck but going with the epoxy I feel I am strong enough now. So I am going to waterproof everything before I put the carpet down.

I will use gelcoat in the bilge area but under the fuel tank , in the ski locker , along the exposed stringers , top of the deck and along the sides of the hull will be done with ip2000e then covered in carpet. The carpet will protect it from the uv rays. If the carpet stays saturated for a few days I know it is not working against the polyester resin and the IP is not only waterproofing but it is filling in any cracks or voids that I might have missed.

Some might call this overkill but I got the ip2000e for a good price, so it is well worth the protection and alot cheaper then buying other products. Also I have tried selling stuff local and everyone wants it for nothing.

Anyhow this is where I am at and my boat is going to love me for this , what I would call going the extra mile

Happy Turkey Day

Jack

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Just one thing about IP2000 .. Where your respo ! That stuff is nasty nasty man .. I would not even do it in a garage attached to a house. Those fumes are the worst I have the pleasure of dealing with ( I use that stuff a lot too ).

Keep safe.

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Thanks for the heads up YD on that IP...looks like we are having a few nice days in the next couple of weeks. I will pull the boat out the door and use my rollers and roll it on. Will definately be wearing a respo. I was thinking of practising my spraying, but if it is that bad I will wait and practise with the gelcoat in the bilge area when the time comes and be ready for the flip.

Thanks
Jack

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

I would not spray IP2000.

Roll or brush is all I would suggest ..

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Well this is the way whitetail hunting goes up here.We don't have a herd like other parts of the country. Well there is a couple spots in the province of bigger herds but not here. Boy's call me from out west and say they had 55 deer come by the ground blind this evening and 8 bucks and we only set up 2 hrs ago .Then the shows you see on tv from ranches south of the border make it look so easy. I usually get my deer every year, but like I say I pass a few up too. Where I hunt there might be 3-4 doe and 2 bucks , 1 little fellow and a bigger one and then you hope some day an even bigger buck comes in.
Spent the week before season getting a stand ready, spent the last 2 weeks hunting other areas and scouting around. I don't apply to hunt does, I don't just shoot anything these days. I have been hunting serious for about 30 years now. I still have my original 30-30 and am on my second box of shells with 4 left. I used 2 to sight my rifle in and have never shot at a deer twice. So that will tell you how many deer I have harvested. I decided to hit the stand last week and this week. I hit it 2 mornings and was very happy with what I seen. There were 7 doe and a couple hanging back. Could have been a buck there. I hunt right in the woods ,a mixture of woods but dominant is softwood. So my line of sight is very limited, but that is how I like to hunt. I don't believe in feeding deer etc. It takes away from the challenge. I use a call and try to bring them into my line of sight. Anyhow yesterday the coyotes have moved in big time. They are so close the hair stood up on my back. It will probably put an end to my spot but i will invest a couple more mornings out there.

Just thought I would give you all an update as to what I been doing. I decided to take some time out for myself but am going to be getting back at the boat within the next 2 weeks. It is good to get a break bud hard to get back to doing it. Next thing winter will be here and gone and I will be saying where did the time go. On the serious side my goal is to put this boat in the water when the temps are nice and that will be june sometime.

Cheer
Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Well the coyotes have not moved out yet and only one day left of the hunt. So I been reading lot's of threads and had to do something as everyone else is busy. So today I built my sterndrive stand out of an old motorcycle jack that was given to me. Took me a whole 30 minutes but did the trick.

Thought i would post it up as it can give someone some ideas.

Jack

 

[oops!]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

good job on the drive stand jack....

so where are you know on the boat.......you were about to do the deck.

you were also worried about epoxy with the 1708....
ill just chip in..
(you probly already know this buy for the other guys sakes ill throw this out.)

some basics about poly and epoxy..

polyester resin contains styrene......epoxy resins do not.

chopped strand mat fiberglass is pressed and bound together with a binding agent that needs the styrene to break it down and allow the binding agent to "dissolve"
this in turn allows the chopped strand matt to conform to different shapes and go between layers and bond correctly. as opposed to a rigid piece of cloth.

for this reason you do not use chopped strand mat with epoxy.
epoxy is such a strong glue that it does not need the resin soaking properties that chopped strand mat gives with poly use.

the 1708 is actually 2 types of cloth....one is a woven or "knit" product...the other is a chopped strand matt.
with 1708...the csm is stitched to the weave of the heaver knit.....and not pressed on with the binder.....
so...in short......1708 does not contain the binders that are broken down with styrene. and is totally epoxy compatible.

hope that clears up some confusion for some folks

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

the 1708 is actually 2 types of cloth....one is a woven or "knit" product...the other is a chopped strand matt.
with 1708...the csm is stitched to the weave of the heaver knit.....and not presses on with the binder.....
so...in short......1708 does not contain the binders that are broken down with styrene. and are totally epoxy compatible.

hope that clears up some confusion for some folks

Actually it does not clear Anything ...

Are you suggesting that 1708 does not/is not compatible with PE resin ? LOL ..

Totally epoxy compatible ? .. sure about that ?? in which way and what epoxy..

YD....

Waiting with Baited breath ..

 

[oops!]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Actually it does not clear Anything ...

Are you suggesting that 1708 does not/is not compatible with PE resin ? LOL ..

Totally epoxy compatible ? .. sure about that ?? in which way and what epoxy..

YD....

Waiting with Baited breath ..

hang on there doc......no im not saying that.....im going to go back and re read all of it and see where i have confused you,,,,,and set it straight...if i have confused you,
the rest of the guys are totally hooped.

my point was that 1708 is compatible with both poly and epoxy.....but csm by it self (although it can be used) is not, due to the binders....

 

[oops!]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

i just edited the main post......i know how you hate editing after as it changes the meaning.....but i just changed some grammar to clarify.

not sure why you are confused bud...(possibly a heavy dyslexia day for me...)

but yes......1708 is compatible with epoxy....even though there is still some binder in the csm....it is not enough to ruin the bond to the sub straight. nor weaken the layup to any significant degree.

1708 is also compatible with poly or VE resins.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Hey Oops ,

I was able to do part of my deck . What I decided to do after doing some reading was put down a layer of epoxy on the plywood then put down a layer of epoxy with the 1708 biaxial. I had some epoxy that was going to go to waist so I changed my plans . My biggest concern is waterproofing the areas that contain the foam. I know polyester would do it but I have to use up some stuff I bought before it went to waist .

As you can see in the photos these areas are now sealed.

My plan now is to add cleats to the compartments and get them sealed then I will add the plywood on top of the compartments and seal the deck completely . But with this idea I am concerned about having to many seams in the carpet if I go that root. Original design had the ski locker removable, I am guessing to clean it out because it had carpet in it. The carpet seams were hidden within the ski locker compartment and the fuel tank compartment. The carpet run down the side of the hull complete length of the deck with no seams other then in the compartments. Almost thinking about fairing the deck real good and get rid of the carpet, but then I like the carpet . So I am still debating on which way to go here. I am going to put my pedestals , battery tray and trim pump on plywood that is fiberglassed to the deck too. I don't want any screws going into the foam areas.

I was going to go with plywood running the other way but I got thinking that I would not get a real good seal on the tops of the stringers in the ski locker and gas tank area. I know I could have used PL but I found it does not bond real good to fiberglass. It is a good filler but it alone with distortion of temp changes we have up here in the winter and if dampness is in there it could cause problems.Then I thought about mixing up some PB and lay on top of the stringers first, but I thought about the mess I was up against.

I know it is alot more work my way but I hope I end up with a complete sealed foam compartments in the end with no possible water intrusion at all . My plan is to paint the insides of the compartments with ip2000e for waterproofing these areas. I might even end up doing IP200e on the whole deck after I have it completed.

Again I know this is probably overkill but everything I do is overkill. I still have my first car I bought new . It has been modified with a stroker etc. I even had my first travel trailer I bought, a 1975 citation up until 5 years ago and it is still going strong. People use to call us the flintstones so I had to upgrade hahahahaha, My buds all say to me you always do things to last.

The stand I just bolted the plywood to the top of the stand. Took the top off and did it on the bench and bolted it back together after.Then I cut out the edge of the 4x4 to lay flat over the bolts then I leg bolted the 4x4 from underneath with some leg bolts.

Thanks for chiming in and giving some advice.

Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

I was so long writing the post and out taking a couple pictures I see thee was a couple posts made heheheh. I am slow at stuff.
Hey Yd welcome back. Have you been doing a little RR time?

Jack

 

[oops!]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

i understand wanting to use up the epoxy were you have it....it wont make a difference as to bonding to gellcoat or other....so no worries.....in fact...if you have mire...you could bond the transom to the hull skin with it....and then water proof the transom outer with the rest.

lol.....how did you like using it?,,,,did the long cure times bother you?

as far as the carpet......i like carpets in boats.....good on the feet....i don't wear shoes in the boat.....neither does the admiral. so carpet suits me just fine.....just build what is under it so it wont hurt any thing !

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Actually I heated the garage up to 85 with the furnace after I was done. It took about 5 hrs to set up completely. I have to say I enjoyed working with it. It is not a good product for someone doing repairs on a daily basis and trying to keep costs down . I don't work for long periods of time on the boat because the body just can't handle it. So after working for a few hrs I was ready to quit for the day.

That is where I stand with the carpet too, it just adds that little bit of comfort on the feet.

I been thinking of at least to seal the key hole with it .

Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Well winter has set in we got pretty near a foot of snow today, hunting is over and now is time to get ready to get some work done. I have a furnace in the garage but wanted to add a little more heat for setting up time and also a back up just in case my furnace fails me.

I just thought I would post up a heater I found for 89.00 shipping included. It is just the size I need for my shop. 30,000 btu for up to 700 sq ft or 6500 cubic feet. They are brand new and you will not find a lower price anywhere. I will post a pic of it here. I found them on ebay folks , so if you need one have a look.



After I get this picked up in week or so I might be able to get a little work done before the festive season, but if i don't it will be right after.


PS: There are safety precautions to take when running these even in an unfinished shop but I am not going to go into detail it is for you too find out what needs to be done. Maybe leave a window cracked or better yet turn it on when you are done your work and leave the building

Jack

 

[mxcobra]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

great thread answered so many of my ???
I am having the same problem with the pl the resin wants to peel it up!
Only seems so be solid if incased with csm>>>

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Thanks for checking out my thread mxcobra and am glad I could answer some of your questions. I run a few tests with the Pl and basically found the same thing. It is a great filler. I actually had it react with the csm in a few spots. I would never use it again just because of the possibilities of it reacting and compromising what ever I am working on. Might as well mix up the PB as you know it is going to work. It is a great wood bonding product but not good for fiberglass bonding . I even took the time to take an old pieces of fiberglass I took off the boat and used pl to bond it to a piece of plywood. It actually sat in clamp position for a week ...One good smack with the rubber maul..it completely delaminated. Not what I wanted to see. I have used this product in woodworking over the years. I have used it in building hardwood stair cases putting down hardwood treads and I tell you if you have to pull a tread up you will literally rip the wood apart. It bonds real well with wood. During the rest of my project I might try and document a little better to help others out. mxcobra if you have any questions anytime just ask, if I can help you I will.

thanks again

Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Uphostery Glue

Uphostery Glue

Well I have been taking some other parts of the upholstery apart and trying to figure out a design for the sun deck over the motor. I am going to change it up a little in reference to colour.

After taking some of the side panels apart I noticed they had some of the edges of the vinyl glued to the foam. Might be a shape technique , I do not know or could be overspray from gluing down the foam.
My biggest question is what type of glue do you upholster guys use to glue the foam down to the plywood plus use it on the vinyl edges. Reading again I have found some glues do not work good on vinyl because of the oils.

Thanks for any info

Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Foam Requirments "How Much Do I Need"

Foam Requirments "How Much Do I Need"

Actually just wanted to make a post on foam requirments . I have read alot about it and see lot's of discussions. I found a good guide and wanted to save it in my thread so I do not have to search for it again. Check it out . Part 2 gives good examples of what we are trying to achieve. I divided it up into 3 parts just so I could upload it.

hope this helps others out

Jack

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Foam Requirments "How Much Do I Need"

Re: Foam Requirments "How Much Do I Need"

All my upholstery research led me to this product...

3M™ Super 77™ Multipurpose Adhesive