I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

[fuzzeywiggler]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

Question one. I left the lip where the plywood started and I?m thinking of cutting it 90 degrees to the deck (leaving it up and down). Then I?ll be able to run my ply up to it and have it held in place with that lip (it?s good and solid) until I get the glass done. Should I do this or is it better to grind it all away and start fresh?

The best option would be to fully grind it so you can seal the new deck. You have to grind them anyway to scuff them up so you might as well take them fully down.

Question 2. I have "a lot" of aluminum stock that I?m thinking of using for stingers. One type is 2? x 4? that could be used for the main stringer. The other is u shaped I could use for the others.

I don't see a huge advantage of using the aluminum because it would take a huge amount of glass to get the center stringer in there and I doubt it would bond very well (mechanically).

The other reason that manufacturers use wood is to have something for the deck screws and other fasteners to hold onto.

Personally im against it but see what others say before you decide.

Great work on the grinding you have the majority of it outa the way!!!

Fuzzy

 

[Stoutcat]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

Hi Rick,

Been meaning to reply, but got pulled away.

My .02$ on some of your questions...

* First, if you haven't been there already, check out fiberglassics.co and theclassicboathouse.com. I like the latter better. Their gallery is amazing. I was looking in there, and I'd almost say that your boat is an early to mid 1960s craft. By '69 the lines were starting to take on that more streamlined, sleek look. Anyway, it's fun to look at all the old boats.

* Making stringers out of green wood? Hmmm... I don't know if I'd go that route. The general idea is to encase the stringers in glass and goo... If you entomb them in poly and glass, not only will the wood shrink and move during drying (probably exacerbated by the heat of the exothermic poly cure) thus breaking the bond between poly and wood, but also trapping expelled water... Perhaps premature rot.

* As for using maple for stringers... Maple probably rates a grade of "C" in rot resistance. It's brutally strong and hard, and when properly smothered in glass and goo, should give you 20 years of service.

* You asked about recreating the stringer layout. I'd take two things into consideration. First, the boat hasn't totally fallen apart yet, so there must have been some merit to the original design. But secondly, the boat ain't as young as she used to be. She's got some weaknesses, and if you think you need to beef stuff up, I'd say do it.

* For the deck... I'd follow TD's lead here... AC or Marine ply. I've built with both and will go with marine every time now.

* Concerning the lip. My advice would be to do whatever it takes to eliminate dead air space between the edge of the deck and the side of the boat. Dead air space in a marine environment equates to trapped moisture, and trapped moisture takes no prisoners.

* Concerning the aluminum stringers... Great question. On a small boat, you can probably "stitch" the stringers into place by drilling the holes you mentioned every 6" and letting the poly ooze through the holes. That in conjunction with a thorough glass encapsulation would probably make it secure. But I wouldn't go that route... I'd use something like West System G/Flex to basically "weld" the alum stock in place. Either way, you could then poly goo/glass wood on top of the aluminum and secure the deck to that... I don't know... That just seems like a prescription for problems.

Anyway... hope this helps!

Alan

 

[jcsftwre]

More input on aluminum stringers... & More questions & a few facts.

More input on aluminum stringers... & More questions & a few facts.

"* Concerning the aluminum stringers... Great question. On a small boat, you can probably "stitch" the stringers into place by drilling the holes you mentioned every 6" and letting the poly ooze through the holes. That in conjunction with a thorough glass encapsulation would probably make it secure. But I wouldn't go that route... I'd use something like West System G/Flex to basically "weld" the alum stock in place. Either way, you could then poly goo/glass wood on top of the aluminum and secure the deck to that... I don't know... That just seems like a prescription for problems."


I'm wanting to talk this one to an end, please.

"If" I use the aluminum stringer?..

Let me explain these things. They are used in building pole barns and are supports for doors and siding. They can be screwed into very easy with aluminum screws that have a rubber washer and an aluminum cap on them. The screws are the same ones used on medal roofing for the barns and don?t leak for about 10 to 15 years if done right. I will be glassing the deck and countersinking the screws (if I do it this way) then glassing over the top to stop water from getting in. I also have several thousand screws.

The stringers could be glued in using Polyurethane Construction Adhesive (I think, what do you think?) or done the way I spoke about drilling the holes (a lot of them) and letting the reason and chopped up fiberglass go though the holes (to make the bond) and spill back over to the bottom of the boat. Also I then could run a few layers of glass the length of the stringers overlapping the stringers and the boat bottom.

The biggest reason I am thinking about this is cost! Because I have little to no money (not kidding at all I live off of my military disability checks) but I have either the aluminum or I have the white maple to use for the stringers. I am buying the fiberglass and anything else from my money I have to buy food with and eating what I canned this summer from the garden and what I hunt. (Good thing I live alone, no others to worry about feeding)

I would like to hear more input please. Good or bad either way but please keep the bad to why I should not do it. This way I can use your input to help me make an informed decision.

Thanks a lot, Rick

After a lot more searches on the net for aluminum stringers I think I will scratch that thought and use the white maple wraped in FG. I found more negatives than posative on the aluminum. like poor holding between the FG and the aluminum. :redface:

 

[Stoutcat]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

Hi Rick,

I hear ya loud and clear on the money... But before you give up on the aluminum... How about bedding it with something like PL Premium construction adhesive. A bunch of the wood boat guys use this and they love it. It might be faster and easier than maple, and cheaper too... (Besides, around here anyways, maple sells for good money.)

Hang in there buddy, and thanks for your service.

Alan

 

[redfury]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

With the price of scrap, you won't get much for the aluminum right now anyway, but with the contour of the hull, I don't know if aluminum would be the best choice either.

Honestly, not that much water should get into the boat where you need to service it like you mentioned unless you leave it out in the rain, uncovered, on the lake, for a day. You'd probably have a dead battery from the bilge running all the time.

Construction adhesive would work really well though to bed them in...I'd agree with that.

One other thing to think about with the aluminum is galvanic corrosion. You probably wouldn't experience much of this, but depending on how your boat is set up, you could potentially have a problem with it.

Personally, I'd stick with the maple. If you have dried wood and then seal it with resin before you glass it in, I can't see where you'd have problems down the road. Just make sure that you seal up the holes where you drill into and fasten anything to any of the wood you use and you'll find that it will take A LOT to get water in there and start causing problems.

Most boats like yours and mine were built to last for a while, not forever, and built as fast as possible, so voids in the glass are inevitable, and then the rot. Then the guy rigging the boat and drilling holes in the transom back then just did that and bolted on the motor...bye-bye transom.

 

[fishdog4449]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

hey that boat looks familiar
seriously that boat was a blast though. i would make sure you double check EVERYTHING for rot, the chryslers weren't exactly built like a rock. the floor and transom on mine were a complete mess.
I had a 25 on that boat and it hit 25mph or so, id shop around for a johnnyrude 40 or 50 and she'll fly!!

 

[jcsftwre]

Aluminum stringers and flat boat bottom

Aluminum stringers and flat boat bottom

About the bottom of the boat and if I use Aluminum stringers. Remarkably enough the bottom is straight and flat at least for the stringers on each side. If you look at the photo they outside two run flat the whole way.

Now about the main stringer in the middle, when I lay a piece down that it lays ?mostly flat the whole way.
I have three hole along this line that needs to be fixed also and when I do so I was thinking of doing it was FG (of course) and build up the v in the bottom to meet the aluminum. I would need to fill the v ranging from nothing in the rear of the boat to about 1 ? inch thick in the front of the boat. Sort of like a standoff for the aluminum.

If I can use the aluminum for the stringers then I can use the white maple for things like the dashboard and any other woodwork I want to make it look nice. I would need to seal it very well but I have polyurethane in my shop to do this.

 

[J. Mark]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

I want to throw my 2 cents in about aluminum for stringers.

I think it is a bad idea. Aluminum oxidizes quickly and will not bond to the fiberglass no matter how it is encapulated. It may be held down, but it will not be a single structural unit. Furthermore, aluminum fatigues from being flexed. It offers very little in the way of hull support. It night make a fair screwing surface to mount a floor, but it won't make a strong flexible stringer.

Maple would be better. You say you have access to cut green wood and that you have more time than money. Why not cut some green wood from a more rot resistant species (like douglas fir if available or white oak) and let it dry for a while?)

I know money is tight, so I will not suggest going out and spending it carelessly, but good exterior grade plywood would make very good stringers and it would likely take only two sheets.

If I had access to nice maple either rough cut or planed and cleaned up, I would be glad to turn loose of some cash for it (I think it runs about 7 bucks or more a board foot) I'd pay in a heart beat for maple if I was in your area. Why not go on craigslist and try and sell or trade maple for a better choice.

I see you are a vet, so I will go ahead and say this

Thank you for your service to our country!

 

[jcsftwre]

No work today on the boat.

No work today on the boat.

Fuzzeywiggler,
I?m going to take your advice on cutting the lip off all of the way. You made a very good point when you said I need to grind it clean anyway and also about making sure there is no voids in it.

I still am going around on the stingers and what to use, but I have time before I have to make that choice and other work to do on the boat until then.

Today there was no work on the boat I had a doctor appointment with a new doc. Between getting to the appointment, three hours there, one and a half at the doctors and the three hour drive home it?s too late to do any work now. So I have the night off to rest and will get up at 5 am to start getting ready to work on it then.

I?ll post tomorrow what I get done,
Rick

 

[colobiker]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

jcsftwre,

welcome.. 1st. I want to thank you for your service to this country.
2nd, I want to tell you what an inspiration you are. Being a vet in your situation, you find a way to make things happen and get stuff done.. you are obviously a very patient and knowledgable individual.

your boat is going to be beautiful, I will be following it closely.


I went to the web site where your photos are posted. couldnt see any.. maybe its a setting on my computer..


lest of luck to you.

 

[jcsftwre]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

jcsftwre,

welcome.. 1st. I want to thank you for your service to this country.
2nd, I want to tell you what an inspiration you are. Being a vet in your situation, you find a way to make things happen and get stuff done.. you are obviously a very patient and knowledgable individual.

your boat is going to be beautiful, I will be following it closely.


I went to the web site where your photos are posted. couldnt see any.. maybe its a setting on my computer..


lest of luck to you.

Thank you for your appreciation and I thank the rest of the men for theirs extended to me also.

It does mean a lot to Vets to hear that from people.

As I do, be sure to thank the young men and women of the military that are serving our great country right now. Even if your stance is against the war these fine people are just following orders and right now are living a nightmare that will continue the rest of their lives. I would like to see them come home very soon and in one peice!

But for some already they gave the Ultimate sacrifice. ?all gave some but some gave all!?

Please take the time and HONOR these men by going to this link and reading this ?Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers Facts? http://www.keneva.com/TombOfTheUnknownSoldierFacts.htm

You will find it very interesting!

I changed the link to my on line photos and hope it works now try this one http://sports.webshots.com/album/568497146cJBuEm?vhost=sports I?m hoping that will work for you.


Edit: Sorry about my commentary.

 

[jqwhaler]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

1st time poster. What if you hit the alum. stringer parts with some zinc chromate primer, like what is used on outboard lower units before the finish coats? I don't know how this would affect the fg bond, (hey if its bad, its bad, but should take care of the corrosion anyway.) You can get it in spray cans for about 9 bucks here at iboats. http://www.iboats.com/MOELLER_ZINC_PRIMERS/dm/*******.175436796--list_time.1226417070--**********.674925274--view_id.366646
Hopefully that link worked. Anyway, just trying to think out of the box a bit, it seems everyone prefers the wood stringers because of the bond, but if you can solve that bond issue with the alum, and you're worried about corrosion, this might be the way to go.

jq

 

[colobiker]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

the wood bonds to the fiberglass that bonds to the boat.
making them all 1 structural member. (when fiberglass is properly installed)

metal (aluminum, steel) do not bond to fiberglass. you would need a mechanical means (bolt, screw) to bond them to the floor. obviously putting a bolt or screw (making a hole) in a boat is counter intuitive...

there might be chemical means to attach aluminum to the fiberglass, but it should be throughly tested.. ..

use a quality ply (as has been spoken of previously) and go that route.

there is no substute for doing repairs correctly. especially if your life or sombody elses hangs in the balance..

put it this way.. if you use the aluminum and do the best job you possibliy can.. it might work and you will have no problems.. then in 3 years you decide to sell the boat because you found a bigger/faster/ nicer one.. you sell it to a young family.. they take your old boat out to play in the water.. say the alumium decides to seperate at that point in time and the boat breaks apart.. sinking and harming all on board.. your gonna feel pretty bad about the accident.. and it all could have been avoided..

its is perfectly acceptable to risk your own life. it becomes irresponsible to risk the lives of others.

you might even go so far to say.. ok.. I will use the aluminum, and only I will use the boat, and when I am done with it, I will destroy it so no one can get harmed.... and if it cracks up, and I get hurt.. then thats ok... what about those who are charged with trying to save you from your sinking boat?
by not doing it correctly, your taking their lives in your hands as well..


sorry for the rant. I am a firm believer it the mantra "if your going to do something, do it correctly or not at all".. Part of being a responsible human being is not only taking your responsibilitiy, but also taking responsibility for those around you...

it may take a little more time, it may take a little more $$ but in the end.. you will have a better boat, one that you can happily sell to sombody knowing full well that the work you did was top notch and much better than it came from the factory...

 

[jcsftwre]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

Colobiker,
You have a good point. I also was wondering what would happen if I hit a rock or log? The aluminum would not move but the fiberglass would. At least wood has give to it and bounces back. This has been my biggest worry.

 

[jqwhaler]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

And there you have it. Suppose you should skip the aluminum stringers...

 

[colobiker]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

thats a good point as well.. aluminum is actually quite flexible as well. but with metal.. you deform it, its not going to bounce back.. like fiberglass/wood will.. so if you hit that log or rock.. and the hull deflects causing the aluminum to bend and come loose from the hull, your gonna have big problems.. at least with the wood it will deflect and "bounce back" you still might have to fix some things, but it wont be like ripping out the floor to fix a bent or broken stringer that was never completely bonded to the hull.

look at OOp's thread.. he did some test's smacking fiberglass with a hammer.. while these were not scientific tests.. it gives you an idea what fiberglass can do.. for grins.. take a peice of wood coated and bonded to fiberglass and a peice of aluminum.. covered with fiberglass as well.. smack them both with a hammer.. and post the results.. i am sure every one would like to see it..

if I had the time, i would love to set up some scientific tests on different materials used for stringer.. wood (ply and dimensional) aluminum, steel and some plastic lumber.. maybe even lay up a fiberglass stringer for the test as well.... measure loading, delfection, etc.. have it be a completely scientific test.. and post results. the we can all see how different materials perform under the exact same conditions... even a submersion test, to see if any take on water, and then repeat some tests after submersion.. to see the effect... could be interesting.. but very time consuming..

 

[Flying Brian]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

Hy there glad you our back home. My son just got back he was in Iraq and Saudi Arabia for 3 years he is in the Air Force and i am very glad he is home. I am doing a 69 Chrysler Courier 229 it looks like your coming a long very well. Good luck on your project. Brian

 

[jcsftwre]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

Hy there glad you our back home. My son just got back he was in Iraq and Saudi Arabia for 3 years he is in the Air Force and i am very glad he is home. I am doing a 69 Chrysler Courier 229 it looks like your coming a long very well. Good luck on your project. Brian

I don?t want to take credit where it is not due. My time in was from 1980 to 1984 I was in D. Co. 1st Eng. Btln. 1st Inf. Div. Forward. I had done my time in the Fulda gap doing boarder guard attached to the 1st of the 81st field artillery.

Back then the field artillery was atomic, tactical nukes, I ran around along the side of Pershing I?s and Pursing II nuclear missiles.

Just try to imagine these as field artillery!

I served during a time better forgotten about, and to most is.
Back when the USA did not know just how close we came to nuclear war many, many times! Some of the things I was evolved in are still classified. Some of the things I know about this missile even the ?button pushers? don?t know about them.
So if you ever look up this defense system on the net know that what you read is for civilian eyes to read, and is not close to there real capability.

However I do want to say that I am proud of your son for what he is doing for us. Thank him for me!


Rick

 

[Stoutcat]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

Hi,

Keeping a sharp eye on the bottom line, in-place testing probably would be the way to go... (Aluminum comes in different flavors as does polyester/epoxy/adhesive.) Suppose you cut small pieces (1/2") of aluminum and try different adhesives. Ultimately, it will be up to you to decide what is safe for you and others. You might also consider an aluminum/wood composite stringer system.

I still think that a few sheets of AC ply would be the best and most proven route, but if we can be creative and save some $$$, that would be great!

Alan

 

[Matrex]

Re: I would like to introduce myself, and talk about my rebuild.

You might be surprised how easy it is to legally scrounge materials like plywood at a building sites in your area. A fella I know built half his cottage by simply asking contractors for stuff as houses in a subdivision were closed in. Sometimes builders would rather give it away than pack it up, drag it away and store it. Ask around, explain your situation and I bet you can get a couple of half sheets for free.