keel soft spot

[juicebox]

i have an old bayliner admiralty 1977. i picked this two years ago knowing that it had some damage to the keel. this boat doesn't take on much water. i've had it out on erie many times. i want to address this soft spot this year. where the keel sits on the foward most roller it presses in about an inch to inch and a half. i want to do this as cheap as possible. it doesn't have to be pretty. my thoughts are to cut a hole in the deck grind down inside a little, clean with acetone, and use 4 layers of biax with epoxy on the inside. clean and grind down the outside and go with two layers of biax and epoxy. maybe then just hit with some bottom paint and be done. Does anyone think this will be sufficient? if not, any opinions or help would be appreciated. i also plan on adjusting the bunks on the trailer so there is not as much pressure on the roller. thanks.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: keel soft spot

If its been leaking for a while you may find more work to do than just patching the hole. The foam is probably waterlogged and there may be some rotten wood in there too.

If want it to cost less, then use polyester resin instead of epoxy.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: keel soft spot

I'm afraid that might be the tip of the iceberg. You might be dealing with some severe cancer in there. Based on your post ..... you are planning what we consider a band aid repair and many of us really advise against it.

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot

i know that this is a band aid repair, especially if i find what i hope i don't find after i cut the hole in the deck. If the damage is localized will the epoxy hold for a couple years? i can't afford a big investment right now, but in a couple years it might be a different story. thanks for the responses.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: keel soft spot

i know that this is a band aid repair, especially if i find what i hope i don't find after i cut the hole in the deck. If the damage is localized will the epoxy hold for a couple years? i can't afford a big investment right now, but in a couple years it might be a different story. thanks for the responses.

I dont think anyone here can answer this question...

I saw the pic and the first thing on my mind was Wholy crap !!

There is no "patch" that can be recommended that I know of.. you have to inspect and find out whats really going on here man..

Looks to be a bump that hit somewhere..you have to look inside if you can and give us some more pics.

I/We cant reallly tell you how to Fix this unless we have more info..but it looks kinda..erm... .. not right..

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: keel soft spot

i know that this is a band aid repair, especially if i find what i hope i don't find after i cut the hole in the deck. If the damage is localized will the epoxy hold for a couple years? i can't afford a big investment right now, but in a couple years it might be a different story. thanks for the responses.

It doesn't need to be a band-aid repair and the actual glass work will cost the same whether you do a good job or a bad one, so just do it right the first time. As for the rest of the work that "may" need to be done, nobody will know until you cut the access hole.

You keep saying epoxy, you don't need to use epoxy if you don't want to, the repair will be successful either way.

 

[sqbtr]

Re: keel soft spot

I had similar damage to my little bay.

I finally determined it was caused by improper loading throughout it's life. Roller sitting on the strake. As previously stated it doesn't take any more to do the job right. Rip it apart and post some more pics.

Plenty of knowledgable people here to help

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot

will post more pics when i cut the hole. thanks guys. will a 2'x2' hole be enough room to work through?

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot

o.k with the weather warming a bit i'm thinking it's time to get the boat off the trailer and up on some blocks. i've never done this before, but it seems straight foward enough. i've got a pretty good idea of what needs to be done. if any of you could post some links with pictures for doing this that would be great. i have plenty of 4x4's for shoring it up and plan on topping these with whatever shims i may need to keep her steady. for the keel in the front i'll use some 2x10 to cut a nice v. been looking at west systems epoxy, man that stuff is expensive. thanks for all the help guys.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: keel soft spot

Check U.S. Composites for your epoxy. http://www.uscomposites.com/

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot

i looked at the us composites website, thanks ezmobee. i decided to just back the boat up on the trailer about three feet, that will get the area i need to work on clear. the area i need to work on is near the helm, but was wondering how big of a hole to cut in the deck. also was wondering if i need to watch for framing members under the deck, i dont want to cut into these accidentally. thanks guys. oh i was also wondering about adding a motor mount. i have an old volvo aq125b that just hangs. i figured i would add a 4x4 into the bilge and install a motor mount just to help the transom out some. my deck is connected to the transom and i think that has helped this boat over the years. my transom is not in the best of shape but i'm thinking that a motor mount can keep her going till i find a aluminum starcraft that i can restore. i've been looking ..

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: keel soft spot

Need some updated pics of the damaged area .

YD.

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot

cutting a hole in the deck tomorrow we'll see what we have. just got a shipment from u.s. composites. i ordered 1708 biax 38 and 50 width the 50 was to get a couple pieces. 2 yrd 38, 1 yrd 50. 2 yrd 12 inch tape,2 yrds 8 inch tape, 3 yrd 6 inch, and 2 yrd 4 inch. i bought about 3/4 a gallon of epoxy and a pound of 1/2 chopped strand fiber. i drew the progressive patches out on paper and i'm thinking two layers of tape on the bottom of the boat and 6 layers of tape and biax on the inside of the boat. the last patch i'm thinking will be about 2ft. by 3ft. on the inside. what should my layup schedule be with biax and tape? the actual damage is about 1x1 ft. atleast i'm guessing it's that big.i'm going to feather out the iside about 8 inches all around the hole, and the feather the outside about the same to start.

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot




cut a square hole in the deck today. used a circular saw set about a quarter inch to cut through the fiberglass only. next reset the saw depth to cut through the plywood. when i pulled it out there is about two inches of foam sprayed to the bottom, i'm assuming for sound. anyway the plywood was dry as a bone. there are some foam popcorns of course. there is another layer of plywood about 8 to 10 inches below the first. i think i'm going to use a rotozip on this one, don't see how i can work a circular saw in my hole. does this sound about right guys. by the way the second layer of plywood is hard as a rock also. i've been working all weekend as the weather has been great here in ohio, finally. i'm going to try to get the second hole cut today and i'll take more pictures.you can see the lower plywood layer in my first pic.

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot




o.k. so i cut the second hole, this plywood was a little wet on the bottom, but not rotten. the foam, oooooh the foam, on the other hand had quite a bit of water in it along with a little bit of a gas smell. its was a fun two hours cleaning all the foam out. i cleaned all the foam from between the two bulkheads, about a three foot span. if you notice in the picture the two tools; they represent how long the crack in the keel is. about 8 inches. as i said there was some water so i soaked it up with a rag. gonna grind it down tomorrow, thinking about 8 inches all the way around the crack. will update with more pics tomorrow.

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot

bump

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: keel soft spot

Ok you bumped, but NO pics????

 

[sqbtr]

Re: keel soft spot

Looks like somebody already tried to patch it. I didn't have any roving at all in my '76.

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot



was at it for awhile again today, got a little accomplished before my woman made me take her and the kids to the phone store because she lost her phone. spent alot of today grinding the bottom of the boat. i took a break from that and hooked a chain around my buddies boat, a rope through the tie down loops on the back of my boat, and connected the two with a come along and tried to crank the boat back about 10 inches. i blocked up the tires with some firewood and started cranking to no avail, well atleast i didn't feel that safe with rope, chain and steel cable all with pressure on them at the same time, so i did it the easy way. i jumped in my truck and drove the trailer out from under the boat a little at a time. worked out pretty good for me and nothing broke, so i'm happy. i needed to back the boat up on the trailer so i could grind out the rest of my repair area. i still didn't feel like grinding again yet so i then built the cradle you see. all the lumber that you see and more at my house i got last year from home depot for 5.00 and some change. the stack was about 4 ft. high in different lengths. they had used it for racks in the garden center. its all pressure treated, so i consider myself lucky on the deal. my neighbor stopped by and laughed at the cradle and said "that's not going anywhere". it might be overkill, but i'd rather be safe than sorry. i haven't built the front props yet, but thought it would be nice to be able to move the trailer freely back and for a little when i'm laying up the bottom of the boat. then i went back to grinding on the bottom, still have a little more to do. i think i got most of the dead glass out, but the light was fading a little, so we'll see tomorrow if it doesn't rain. haven't started grinding the inside yet, but will keep updating as i go. if you see in the one pic, there is a pick up for an old live well. they just capped it off in the bilge, but i think i'm gonna patch that while i'm doing the rest. after i get all this ground down i'm gonna have a few questions about the layup, so hopefully one of you guys can help. thanks guys.


almost forgot to ask. how does everyone like the p.o. old repair? what the hell is that stuff? kind of pinkish. and you can kind of see the crack on the outside by the roller wheel. i ground out about 4 inches past it both ways, i think most of what i'm in now is good glass.

 

[juicebox]

Re: keel soft spot

ground the inside of the boat today. i'm having some serious problems with the stick on sanding pads from lowes. i clean the rubber with acetone really well to make sure there is no glue residue or dust, then i take a minute or two to make sure the new pad is sticking all the way around. i sometimes get about two minutes before the pad starts to come off, sometimes more. they pop up in one spot, then tear in that spot and then just fly off. anyone have an idea that might help me out? its pretty annoying. i didn't totally fishing grinding inside, need about another half hour or so, but the storms were coming and i needed to clean up. i opened up the hole a lttle more tapering it down to a sharp edge on the inside of the boat. i'd say the hole is three inches by 12 inches now. i'm wondering how to start the layup. should my first layer be cloth tape, and then 1708 with the chopped side down onto the tape? the hole is tapered on both the bottom and the top, so i need to build up both sides. does anyone think i should do the layup on a table and stick it all on at once. if so how many layers should i do at once? how hot does epoxy get? its from us composites. thin epoxy and 3to1 hardener. is it feasible to do both the top and bottom right after one another. i know this is a lot of questions guys but i want it to be right the first time. i'd prefer to do the whole layup at once so it all cures as one. if that's possible. should i start on the inside to get the form right? maybe let it gel a little and then start the layup on the bottom? i'm a fiberglass virgin that's been studying post after post, and now i'm itching not only to get this repair done so i can be out on the water with the rest of you, but also literally. thanks everyone