Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

[Bubba1235]

I am curious, when I read Craigslist I see docks/slips forsale at (gulp) $60K and up, and up, and up some more.

What exactly is being sold?

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

What you are probably seeing is actual private docks for sale. It's not uncommon around here for people to spend $50K and up for fancy new multi-well docks with swim platforms. Some are even fancier featuring a second story seating/entertaining area above the boats. I know a guy that just spent $20k on a 12x32 covered rough water dock with a 8x32 swim platform...used! The docks around this lake are definately something to be seen and many must deal with some pretty rough water.

-RW

 

[Bondo]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

Ayuh,.... Think of buying a Condo,....
You're buying a Dockage, run by an association...

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

Bond-0 - No offense here, but I really don't think it's the same thing. I'm talking about actual private docks at private residences. Lake of the Ozarks is NOT a DNR lake, it was developed by the company now known as AmerenUE when they dammed the Osage River to build a hydroelectric dam. This is the largest non-flood control lake in the country and nearly all of the surrounding shoreline is privately owned. The lake levels are held to a consistent range thanks to another dam further up the Osage and this allows development right up to the waterfront. There are thousands of private docks at private residences at this lake. For example, the house I'm renting right now has a little over 100' of shoreline with a private dock just like I described in my first post.

-RW

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

Here's a few links to some pics of a few of the private docks on this lake...

http://www.ozarkvillagedocks.com/images/residential1_big.jpg

http://www.stokesdock.com/gallery.php

http://www.dockworks.net/customdocks.html

http://www.dbdocks.com/images/docks/index.htm

 

[OldePharte]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

I am curious, when I read Craigslist I see docks/slips forsale at (gulp) $60K and up, and up, and up some more.

What exactly is being sold?

A link would have been helpful.

There are some marinas that will sell slips and for the $60k, you are buying a hole in the water. And at that price, it must be a big hole. You'll pay extra for electric, water, and pump outs. That and the marina is not responsible for damages to your boat should the dock collapse, break loose, etc. Mainly because of the December '07 (?) snow storm.

And yes, one can pay big $$$ for a private dock, one can also pay a lot less. Look up Dock Realty. They mainly sell used docks.

Things could get interesting at some condos. New secondary market financing rules state that any slip in the condo marina can not be used as a part of the property valuation for loan purposes. This means that one can not roll the cost of the marina slip into the cost mortgage as the slip is considered to be personal property. The same may also be applied to private residences as well.

On a personal note, there is a dock for sale two coves over that is for sale for $80,000. Nice, big dock, that should be able to handle the cruiser wakes. Now, if I could just win the lottery.

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

Bubba- Agreed on the materials in the dock. A big part of what you pay for when you buy a private dock is the builder expertise in navigating the AmerenUE part. Only dock builders certified by AmerenUE can build and place docks on this lake and there is a pretty involved permitting process required by AmerenUE to place a new/larger dock. Unless you want to spend a lot of your own time and effort doing all the permitting stuff, it's a lot easier to just pay someone who knows the ins and outs. If you're really interested, here's a link to Ameren that talks about permitting, requirements and limits.

http://www.ameren.com/LakeOzarks/ADC_BoatDocksandPermits.asp

-RW

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

OldePharte- What cove are you in? We are right off the main channel between the 9 and 10 MM (about 9.5) next to BayPoint condos.
You want to see some cruiser wakes...hang out on our dock on a holiday weekend ! I watched someone get tossed/fall off our neighbors dock over memorial day weekend when they weren't paying attention to the incoming wake.

-RW

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

I hope Grand never gets as bad as Lake of the Ozarks in terms of shoreline development. It's nothing but docks lining the shoreline all the way around, so muh of the nice scenery is lost.

 

[OldePharte]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

OldePharte- What cove are you in? We are right off the main channel between the 9 and 10 MM (about 9.5) next to BayPoint condos.
You want to see some cruiser wakes...hang out on our dock on a holiday weekend ! I watched someone get tossed/fall off our neighbors dock over memorial day weekend when they weren't paying attention to the incoming wake.

-RW

We are across from the Shawnee Bend Access. Between Ozark Bar B Q and Lone Oak Resort.

The sad part is that we are 800 feet from the main channel, in a No Wake cove and still get rocked. Now, if I could convince the State to establish right-hand running on the lake, we would get very few big wakes

Boat dock building is very labor intensive. That and the costs for the encapsulated foam (high costs due to limited distribution), galvanizing (must be trucked both ways), lack of lake access points to build, transportation costs once on the water to customer location, etc. Ameren permits aren't that difficult to get.

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

OldePharte, I'm sure, is more correct about his statement regarding permits from Ameren...to be honest, I've been told it's a PITA with submitting drawings etc and I've always had someone else dealing with it, so I don't know from personal experience.

No doubt building the dock is labor intensive...and these things have to hold up to some killer wakes on busy weekends. Maybe your laid off buddy from your other thread should move down here and start up a dock business building docks for a reasonable price instead of building boats.

The more I think about it, I bet the high price is more driven by business/labor costs. All of these dock companies have atleast 1 barge for transport, welding equipment, a team of actual dock building guys, and I suspect a crazy insurance payment! I've got a neighbor a couple of doors down that used to build docks for a living...next time I see him out, I'm gonna ask where the $$$ goes. I'm sure he can shed a little light on the situation.

I suppose the second main reason for the high cost...people are willing to pay it for quality docks! I can't even remember how many lesser built docks collapsed under the weight of ice during a recent winter...causing a huge amount of damage to the boats being stored under them. There was hundreds of thousands if not into the millions of dollars of damage across the lake.

-RW

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

I hope Grand never gets as bad as Lake of the Ozarks in terms of shoreline development. It's nothing but docks lining the shoreline all the way around, so muh of the nice scenery is lost.

All of the development around LOTO makes it what it is. This lake is HUGE and there is still plenty of undeveloped shoreline that makes for beautiful scenery...if you know where to go...especially during the week. A lot of people get a bad taste for the lake, because they come down on a weekend (or even worse a holiday weekend) and spend all of their time going between Horny Toad Bar/Restaurant and Party Cove on the main channel. There is no doubt that the entire area there is very developed and will probably make you nervous on anything less than about a 30' boat. However, if you head past all of that toward Truman dam, or venture up to the north shore and explore the Gravois arm there is plenty of calm water and beautiful scenery to be had. There is also the Grand Glaize arm which is nearly surrounded by a State Park with almost no development...you just have to get past Party Cove, which is absolute mayhem, to get to the nice part of Glaize.

I'm sure OldePharte could also share, but may not want to, other out of the way places that are scenic and calm.

-RW

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

It would be really interesting to hear what your friend says about where the cost is. I really am curious at this point.

Rolly is an old timer...he's been on this lake since the 50's. He's in his 80's now and he could probably still kick my 32 yr old arse. If anyone can share some info, it'll be him. I'll chat with him in the next few days and let you know what he says.

-RW

 

[OldePharte]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

Out of the way places - You alluded to most of them. Ha Ha Tonka down the Niangua arm is very peaceful area. This state park includes the ruins of an old hotel built from local limestone. It was built before the lake was formed.

Typically, once you get past about the 38 mile mark, the lake takes on more of a "river" look and ya got close to 60 miles of main channel to travel to the end of the lake. And yes, there is development there as well, but not as much and not as crowded. And the state just completed a new public access ramp at about the 67 mm.

Gravois Arm is pretty much all developed, but the traffic is less. The Glaize arm can also be a great get away area, but it is a popular area for water sports. Whiteman AFB has a recreation area halfway down the arm, so a lot of fliers go boating from there.

I will agree that development has lead to a huge loss of "scenery." RANT ON - What I hate is the clear cutting for development. Too bad the P&Z folks can't stop this. I also hate the building of "Florida-style" homes. For those in Florida, they look good, but should stay in the sunny south. They look good in any Caribbean island. Not in Missouri. All those muilti-million dollar homes look garish. I do own 200 feet of lake front. 100 is for the house and the remaining 100 feet is left for nature and it's creatures. RANT OFF

Being at the 10.8 mile mark, we are in the middle of the action, and it can be extremely rough. Hence the new triple tube pontoon. Living across from a public access ramp, we watch all manner of boats being launched. 52 foot, closed cockpit, triple 1075hp powered go fast to 15 foot old runabouts. Even watched some poor schlep launch a drag boat. He was towed back in later the same day after sinking. The local Towboat/US operator now has 3 boats and probably could use a couple more.

Having said all that, I am trying to move down to the lake. Why? "cause we have fun. One can go out and eat most every kind of cuisine by boat. One resort (Bear Bottom) offers free boat-in movies. Just anchor out, tune the radio and watch. Water sports areas available, fishing for everything from spoonbill to muskee, want to raft with friends - no problem. Like to golf - courses from Palmer, Nicklaus, to Wieskopf, etc. Shopping - a very large outlet mall is handy, even for us old folks. Camping - you bet. Hiking, biking - yep that too. With shoreline rivaling that of California, there is a lot to do and places to get away from it all.

Of course one has to fight the 60 foot cruiser wakes to enjoy it all.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

All of the development around LOTO makes it what it is. This lake is HUGE and there is still plenty of undeveloped shoreline that makes for beautiful scenery...if you know where to go...especially during the week. A lot of people get a bad taste for the lake, because they come down on a weekend (or even worse a holiday weekend) and spend all of their time going between Horny Toad Bar/Restaurant and Party Cove on the main channel. There is no doubt that the entire area there is very developed and will probably make you nervous on anything less than about a 30' boat. However, if you head past all of that toward Truman dam, or venture up to the north shore and explore the Gravois arm there is plenty of calm water and beautiful scenery to be had. There is also the Grand Glaize arm which is nearly surrounded by a State Park with almost no development...you just have to get past Party Cove, which is absolute mayhem, to get to the nice part of Glaize.

I'm sure OldePharte could also share, but may not want to, other out of the way places that are scenic and calm.

-RW

Well Lake of the Ozarks is only slightly bigger than Grand with the same type of boats (50ft cruisers, triple screw Cigarette boats, and 15 foot john boats), so I was just commenting that I hope Grand can keep from being just like that where they clear cut every piece of shoreline to build million dollar homes making the entire lake like Party Cove (yes we have one too).

 

[OldePharte]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

And, when was the last time the area had to be evacuated due to a hurricane?

No hurricanes, just an occasional tornado.

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

I finally sat down with Rolly for a bit to ask him about why docks cost so much. Here are his comments slightly paraphrased...

Docks didn't always used to be so expensive. To handle the increasingly rough waters due to the number of big boats, the docks have had to be built much stronger. Builders used to use 1/8" angle steel, but moved up to 3/16". The uprights are also larger and closer together. Unencapsulated foam was cheaper, but now everyone has to use encapsulated foam and they are using thicker blocks to handle the heavier framing and wake. Lastly is the decking, they used to use wood, but now everyone uses concrete. All of these things add up to more $$$.


So there you go...comments from a man that knows more than I.

Haulnazz- I hope your lake stays as you like. Personally I think we are really lucky here to have both extremes. There is LOTO with all of its development, and not too far away is Truman lake which is also a good sized lake with next to no development. If one were so inclined, they could fish Truman in the morning with nothing around and be in the middle of the mayhem at Party Cove by afternoon...of course I don't think you'd be using the same boat for both.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

Yeah, I hear ya. I don't prefer the concrete at all, many of the docks on Grand are now using that composite lumber that never rots or needs replacing. It's much easier on the feet (and knees should you fall). Just think of how expensive lumber is now compared to what it used to be. It cost us a couple grand to re-deck our dock/ramp a year or two ago on a two-slip covered dock with non-treated wood! (we cannot use treated wood on Grand)

 

[DaNinja]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

We are looking at buying my neighbor's dock. I think it'll be less than 10K for a two well dock that needs a bit of TLC. Her dock is unused and mine can get into issues when the water level is dropped. With a dual well, I may bring the Texas Belle up there for the summer.

 

[OldePharte]

Re: Lake Of Ozark folks, can you explain something?

We are looking at buying my neighbor's dock. I think it'll be less than 10K for a two well dock that needs a bit of TLC. Her dock is unused and mine can get into issues when the water level is dropped. With a dual well, I may bring the Texas Belle up there for the summer.

I assume that you are up to speed on what Ameren requires?