liberator 211 rework

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 8, 2005
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Re: liberator 211 rework

Yeah, I can hardly wait too!

I have a few pictures but not much more than what I posted of the engine compartment and a few of the engine installation.. I have a huge shop to work in so I did it all myself.

I even had the boat off the trailer in the shop so I could replace the bunks on the trailer!


What engine and drive did yours have installed before?
 

tlynch99

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 24, 2008
Messages
179
Re: liberator 211 rework

That is great you have such a large space. I think I could get the boat in my Garage so that would be good. Currently I have a 97 350 with an alpha I drive. I belive it's a Gen II drive, as that is what would have gone with the 97. Origionally it was a 85 350 with alpha I.

Here are some threads with pictures of my boat:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=440404

Engine / Compartment. I have been working to clean everything up. I am planning on putting a new carpet in, probobly in Feb once I finish remodling my kitchen.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=445464
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
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Re: liberator 211 rework

Rick,

Awesome job, do you have any other pictures of your process start to finish? I have been contemplating removing my engine just to basically clean up the bilge area like you did, but the engine is in fine working order, so I don't "REALLY" need to pull it. I have an 211 that has an 97 350 in it. I belive the previous owner repowered it. I bought it at the end of last season, so I have only been out in it twice. Cant wait for May....



You know, it's so easy to remove the engine that if you want to clean up the engine compartment, it might be worth it so you can carefully inspect the engine mounts and ensure that the cutout is well sealed against water intrusion. Both the cutout and transom drain on mine were allowing water into the transom.

The 86-88 211 Libs were cool boats...

What sort of top speed performance did you get with it? (speed/RPM/prop pitch, drive ratio)
 

tlynch99

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 24, 2008
Messages
179
Re: liberator 211 rework

When you say cutout what area are you talking about? Unfortunatly I haven't had the chance to really take it out and put it through it's paces as far as top speed/RPM etc. My previous boat had a 70hp outboard on it, the first time I went out in the liberator was an eye opening experience. I was basically like holy crap this thing is fast, and didn't go above 3/4 throttle. I was also in a small lake which didn't help. I notice you have tabs on yours, do you like those / make a big difference?
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: liberator 211 rework

The transom mount cutout. transom plate, gimbal etc....

Of course, if there's no leaks, there's shouldn't have been any water intrusion unless the boat filled with water from rain etc....... FourWinns didn't seal that area at all. also, the transom drain area would absolutely let water into the bottom of the transom so it's worth looking in there if you have the engine out.


Your 211 will be a little faster than your previous boat. (50+ MPH) but it might be a little doggy out of the hole. Mine was a REAL dog out of the when it had the original 460 King Cobra installed. (It just ROCKETS out of the hole now with the Bravo III!!)

It's a tad slower now..... 60MPH before with the 460 @5000RPM and 57 now up against the rev limiter @ 4700RPM

The TABs make a difference (when all the way down) in planing speed and bow lift at 18-22 mph. you can also straighten out the roll with a fat-fat-fatty sitting on one side of the boat. but anytime the tabs contact water at high speed, they slow you down due to the additional drag.

I normally run them all the way UP and ask people to move around to level the boat at planing speeds.....I run them all the way down for wake boarding...... and trim the drive for a HUGE wake!!! The Bravo III is OUTSTANDING for this!! I just LOVE that thing!!!


The boat is heavy.

With the Big-Block it's even heavier. I think my dream engine would be an aluminum 400 Small block--stroked with aluminum heads and aluminum manifolds and stainless steel risers. That would probably remove 300lbs from the back of the boat!!!!
 

tlynch99

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 24, 2008
Messages
179
Re: liberator 211 rework

Ohh transom cutout that makes sense. I did notice a small amount of water in the bilge when I had it out for the first time, but I couldn't tell if was the boat sitting outside for a week of rain before I could get it inside. Ya it was quite the feeling going 30+ when my old boat would barely do 30. I did notice with 6 adults onboard it was a little slow getting out of the hole, and had quite a bit of bow rise.

I also like the fact that someone before me, lowered the through hull exhaust to below the waterline when not on plane. Where I boat is on the CT river and there are a lot of houses near marinias etc... so coming into one of them early / late time of day, I didn't want to be a nuisance. BUT once you are plane that sound is great!

I am going to start replacing my carpet and a soft spot I have in one area under the bench seat in the back. I took the seat out and feel about a 1ft area that will need to be dealt with. My plan is to cut out the bad area, replace it with sealed plywood and then put some 1708 mat down and epoxy it in...
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: liberator 211 rework

If you have the power, you want to come out of the hole with the drive-IN...............not all the way in, but not where it runs most efficiently at plane.

You cannot go by the (trim) gage because

#1. it will change with load and the position of the load (where every one sits) and,
#2. it will change with speed.
#3. The adjustments will need to be made by feel, RPM, and speed.

I usually end up "bumping" the UP button multiple times once it's up on a plane and making slight adjustments when I get to the throttle setting I'm going to run at. The gage is not accurate enough to return to the same place so I do it every time I come up on a plane.

Experiment with trim settings at a constant speed/RPM.

You can easily tell if it's too "high" or "low" and the bow position (too high or "plowing" etc)


You probably have a 1.5:1 drive ratio. (you'll need to determine it by the way....I.E.... 15 engine revolutions to 10 prop revs......or 1.5 engine:1.0 prop etc......)

Depending on what model engine you have, 5.7L 5.7LX, At WOT (Wide Open Throttle) it should turn 4200-4600 RPM or 4400-4800 RPM respectively.

Ideally, you want to "Prop" (pitch) the drive so the engine turns at the highest RPM (4600/4800 ) @WOT when loaded at the weight you will operate regularly.

I.E, throw 4 regular sized adults in the boat and run it wide open and see if it turns 4600/4800. Then note the speed. You won't be running at WOT all the time but all marine engines have a WOT rating to determine prop pitch, drive ratio etc.

You probably have a 17-19 pitch prop on it now?

You can use a Prop Slip Calculator to get an idea what the boat should do. Use 12-15% slip for a single drive single prop planing type run-a-bout.......
 

tlynch99

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 24, 2008
Messages
179
Re: liberator 211 rework

I will have to play around with trim a bit more as my previous boat did not have it. I did play around with it a bit on the first time out. I trimmed all the way in, before throttling up to get on plane. I have a 5.7 LX, as I have a 4 barrel carb. That is the difference right 5.7L 2 barrel, 5.7LX 4 barrel. I do believe I have a 1.5:1 drive ratio, on my alpha I. I need to take the prop off and see if I can find any markings on it. I am looking forward to spending some time with the boat next month, and can't wait for all this damn snow to go away. :)
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: liberator 211 rework

If you don't have a stainless steel prop on it you might also try one. They will improve performance of a boat our size.

Also, if the previous owner cannot tell you when he changed the raw water pump impeller you should do it. And if he did tell you don't believe him and change it anyway!! You will eliminate a potential source of future problems by doing it. Same thing with the drive oil. Unless it was changed before you got it, it should be changed. You should also check the bellows, gimbal bearing and alignment. (these are all yearly things in the Merc owners manual) If you have a drive oil monitor, ensure that it's clear and flowing oil easily.

Use Mercury HP gear oil (the synthetic stuff)
 

tlynch99

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 24, 2008
Messages
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Re: liberator 211 rework

I believe the prop I have is stainless steel it is in very good condition and doesn't feel like aluminum. I do not know when the raw water pump was changed so that is on the list of things to do before april, as well as the drive oil. I have noticed there is some play in the drive side to side, while the steering wheel stays fixed. I have looked online a bit and found that I may have either a worn out gymbal bearing or a worn shaft thing that connects some stuff in the gymbal bearing (very descriptive I know). I have the manual for both engine and outdrive and have been wading through them...

Another thing I know I want to replace is the cabin hatch. Have any ideas where to get a new on of those?
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: liberator 211 rework

cabin hatch.
?

Do you mean the glass hatch in the middle of the deck in front? Is the glass broken?

They're available in many sizes and shapes. They're not cheap. I fixed the hinge support on mine when I discovered that the whole unit is over $400 for a good one with safety glass.

Also check your engine (rear) hatch hinges. FW used cheepy (way too) short bent-leaf 0.050" aluminum hinges. I made a new one using a 72" aluminum hinge and a same length piece of extruded aluminum angle, pop-riveted to it. I installed it with stainless steel hardware. The previous hinges corrode and break easily from people walking on the engine cover.
 

tlynch99

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: liberator 211 rework

Yes, sorry I do mean the glass hatch in the middle of the deck in front. I think all of the hinges are broken on mine. The glass is still in good shape, so maybe I will try to find a way to fix it. Good suggestion on the hinge support on the rear hatch. I do need to strengthen mine.
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: liberator 211 rework

Looks like those hatches have gotten a bit more expensive!!

Here's one from Overtons.....$750:eek:

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?r=view&i=38548&cID=SHOPPING

View attachment 80609


I cannot remember the dimensions of our hatch. The above one is 20"x20"

The 18"X18" is over $700 and the 12"x12" is over $500..


If I needed to replace mine, I would probably get the Taylor Made Ultra like the one above.

The 261 LIB has 2 of them!!

Who ever said boats were cheap???
 

tlynch99

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 24, 2008
Messages
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Re: liberator 211 rework

That is a nice hatch, but man that is a crazy price... I remember a couple of months ago there was a 241 hull only on Long Island for sale for $500, no trailer. I should have found a way to buy that and get it back to my place... just as a parts boat if nothing less. Had no engines and "needed" some work...
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: liberator 211 rework

The 241 is a pretty nice boat!

They're wider and of course longer. They were available with 1 or 2 engines/drives.

I toyed with the idea of finding a 261 with small blocks/Mercruiser drives.

That would be the boat to put tricked, aluminum 400 small block engines and Bravo III's in huh?


I don't know if I'd want a twin though. Imagine how much gas it would burn!
 

tlynch99

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: liberator 211 rework

Ya I have never seen a 241 in person but from the pictures they appear to be a nice size. Not that I am saying I have only been out in my Libby twice and already want a bigger one. I do think a 241 with a 383 stroker would be a awesome combo....

Twins would burn a ton of gas...
 

numpux2020

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
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Re: liberator 211 rework

glad to see some other libby owners out there ...i have that same exact 211...i see u removed all your fuel hoses too though i did not remove my gimbal mount but after seeing your photos i will and the drain too...that looks good grey i did mine white...is that an epoxy...cant wait to post photos of the new motor...vortec heads...alu intake...new risers..i will post soon still at the builders
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: liberator 211 rework

and the drain too.
I actually used a hole saw that was a few inches larger diameter than the actual hole


I drilled from the inside up to but NOT through the glass/gel-coat on the outside I also drilled some other holes at thebottom of the transom to the left and right so I could get air in there...

I used a small fan to suck air out of the hole for about 3 months in a dry shop. This dried the bottom of the transom nicely.

Then I put a couple of pieces of glass cloth on the inside to completely cover the hole large enough to also cover the gimbal mount cutout. I basically reglassed the entire inside to seal up all the holes and leaks due to the poor glass job by FW.

I had quite a large hole in the bottom of the transom at the drain and there was about 1/4-1/2" gap between the bottom of the transom wood and the glass/resin outside shell.

Then I filled it all in using MAS epoxy mixed with milled fiberglass until it ran out of the small holes I drilled up higher left and right. This way I ensured that the epoxy/grass mix filled the area below the transom in addition to the large hole I made where the drain was.

When I re-drilled the hole for the drain, I drilled through a solid glass epoxy area. No leaks now.

To install the 454 where the OMC 460 was, I had to ensure that the engine mount blocks were sound. (not soft due to rot)

I filled the 460 engine mount holes in with the same glass/epoxy mix and put clothover the mounts so I would have a solid mas to drill new mounting holes in.

The 454 engine mounts were not in the same place as the 460 mounts.
 

numpux2020

Seaman Apprentice
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Oct 20, 2008
Messages
37
Re: liberator 211 rework

awsome job....got my fingers crossed when i open mine up....i am guessing that u already had four inch thru hull tips or did it have three inch...that is where i am at with mine...it originally has three and i want to open it up to four considering i am buying new risers....i have concerns about the 3 " 15degree risers and the 4" 07 degree and will my transom holes be close to hitting original holes....i am not sure if anyone else has done this and how their angles ran????guess i will b letting u know thanks in advance...sweet boat dude
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: liberator 211 rework

awsome job....got my fingers crossed when i open mine up....i am guessing that u already had four inch thru hull tips or did it have three inch...that is where i am at with mine...it originally has three and i want to open it up to four considering i am buying new risers....i have concerns about the 3 " 15degree risers and the 4" 07 degree and will my transom holes be close to hitting original holes....i am not sure if anyone else has done this and how their angles ran????guess i will b letting u know thanks in advance...sweet boat dude



Yes, I had (and still have installed) 4" Thru-hulls. They're not connected to anything though.

I had Capts Call on the 460 but never ran it thru-hull because everyone in the boat complained. It didn't do anything for performance so I didn't install the Capts-Call when I put the 454 in.

I might re-install it if I can find a decent (and cheap) set of stainless steel exhaust tips like the following.
%21CCjm2z%21%21Wk%7E$%28KGrHqJ,%21lgEz+2LF49pBNLgzb,Tt%21%7E%7E0_12.JPG


The above are NOT cheap though. On ebay they want over $800 for them. I don't know what's so special about them except they're used on $100,000+ boats!!
http://www.corsaperf.com/mbrochure.htm



If you want dimensions, the following page has some info that might help http://www.corsaperf.com/mbrochure.htm
 
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