Looking to buy, need some advice

[belleview3]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

I'm sure there are more experiencede Merc guys around here, but I understand the MPI is the Multi Point Ignition package in their catalyzed exhaust Emission Control Technology ECT system. This was part of the EPA engine standards improvements. Basically, it develops 225 hp instead of the 190 hp standard 4.3 and has lower emissions. But I'm just a Volvo guy, so I could be wrong.
Trim, the boat looks great and most of the boats in the 180 range around our area have laid carpet instead of the inserts. My last boat had laid carpet that lasted 15 years.
Good luck Grand Laker.

 

[Trim]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Ok. Jkust said the carpet would be fine if you don't let it get wet but how do you keep boat carpet dry? And when it does get wet how do you dry it if you can't remove it to keep it from causing rot or mold?

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

What does MPI mean?

I really just meant fuel injection. Carbs are fine and all but no way I'm having one if I'm dropping that much coin on a new(er) boat.

 

[Trim]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

ezmobee, can you explain what you mean? Why would you not spend that much on a carbed motor? Are they not as well built or what?

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

ezmobee, can you explain what you mean? Why would you not spend that much on a carbed motor? Are they not as well built or what?

I hate to elaborate because I'm going to catch heck from the carb guys. They are built fine and can certainly be quite reliable. However, fuel injection starts immediately every time. Any issue I've ever had with my boat motors has always been carb related. I have a 1990 Chevy pickup with primitive throttle body fuel injection. Starts up immediately every time. Sure FI is not necessary but I just feel it's an extremely worthwhile upgrade that I wouldn't consider not having in a newer boat. Just like I wouldn't consider a new car without air conditioning.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

The Carbed vs. MPI thing really depends on your comfort level with working on stuff when it does not run. If you always take it somewhere then it won't matter. If you work on it yourself then the carbed engines are cheaper to fix yourself usually. On MPI there are a lot of electronic components that need special equipment to diagnose. The MPI fuel systems are more complex "mechanically" also with higher pressure pumps and all. On carbed engines there is just the one lower pressure (less expensive) pump. With MPI when all is well they are a fantastic improvement. When they need work it is the opposite.

I just went thru a boat search and when an engine was the 4.3 190hp, or even the 3.0 135hp carbed, I gave it one more plus on my list, but that's me. I did not want to end up with a nice used boat coming up lame with MPI fuel issues like needing new high pressure fuel pumps fixed, just my take on it. I am not anti-tech but I am just SO comfortable with carbs that I prefer them in a used type situation. Brand new? COOL!!! Let the dealer worry about it...


ezmobee, I know what you mean on the "older" TBI units. I had an '89 Ramcharger 318 with TBI and it started exactly the same in -10 degrees or 100 degrees. Ran great, 150k+ miles.

 

[Philster]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Fuel injection (MPI, EFI, TBI, DI etc) vs. Carbs

Regardless of how well some carbed engines run, they ain't as good as fuel-injected engines, and if you were to prove that premise wrong, well, it doesn't matter as case for carbs is made moot by resale value. Fuel injection for the win. Ergo, no matter how one posits that carbed is fine, carbed can't beat fuel injection from top to bottom when all things are considered.

Buying new = buy fuel injection.

 

[jkust]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Ok. Jkust said the carpet would be fine if you don't let it get wet but how do you keep boat carpet dry? And when it does get wet how do you dry it if you can't remove it to keep it from causing rot or mold?

Well, the answer is it takes more determined upkeep. One of my boats is a 1984 bowrider that believe it or not we bought new. Of course it has glue down carpet over wood. It's still in pristine shape and it's 100% original. Not fake, imbelished, internet poster pristine but actually pristine. When you do water sports it gets saturated and so you need to balance letting it dry before you cover it with keeping the sun off of it. Plus then here in MN it spent almost all of it's years stored outside and so we had to fashion a wood frame boat cover with tarps to make sure no snow ever made its way in. My point being, it never got moldy or smelly but it took a bit more time and energy to make so it didn't become another rotted floor statistic.

As for MPI engines, the Multi Port Fuel injection came about right around the 2002 model year. MPI is not to be confused with the earlier fuel injection systems you will see on pre 2002 I/O's. MPI has between 30 and 35 more hp than the regular carb 4.3 depending if it is a Volvo or a Mercuriser and a 1.62 lower unit gear ratio instead of the carbed engine's accompanying 1.81:1 ratio. I have the carbed version on my sig boat and I went almost to the ends of the earth to find an MPI but never found one new or used in my model of Chaparral at least until after I bought it. It was a significantly expensive option that most folks simply live without. You get maybe 3 to 4mph more with that extra hp but what I really dislike about the carb are two things. The first being when I start my boat at a ramp, I have to sit there for at least a few minutes before I can back away and make way for the next boat just like old pre-fuel injected cars. We generally don't have a courtesy dock to move over to. MPI allows you to quikly back away like a modern car without dying. For background sake my sig boat runs as intended. The other difference is the instant throttle response MPI give you over carbed. There are a few more technological issues as well like the ability to add Smartcraft guages and the easier winterizing due to the simpler blue plug removal center point access. In 2008 you really started to see a lot more MPI engines and so if in 2012 I was buying a 2008 small bowrider, I'd be pretty insistant on MPI. The other thing to remember though is at least in MN if you can't service your boat yourself, and you need a shop to do it, you can spend a majority of your very, very, short boating season waiting in line for service where carbs are much more diy. Carbed I/O's are essentially outlawed by the EPA now but the manufacturers are allowed to use their remaining stock which presumably is large. Someone else will surely know more about the EPA than me but they are a thing of the past.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Another advantage to Injection is that the motor samples exhaust gasses for the amount of unburned fuel, it can then adjust the amount of fuel going into the motor to compensate, think about it this way, if you drive your fuel injected car to Colorado your going into less air and so your car will need less fuel in order to maintain efficient operation, of course you will lose power so you add right foot but the motor adjusts itself rather then manually changing jets within the carb to obtain the correct fuel to air mixture. If you trailer your boat like I do having a Injected motor is pretty important since I know I can go from 7000' here at home to Grand Lake Oklahoma (800' ASL roughly) and I don't need to change anything in the motor, if I had a carbed motor I would be looking at a pretty serious Jet change.

If your not looking to trailer your boat (like I do there just isn't many big lakes in Colorado) I think Injection is more for convenience, because you can have a Carbed motor run every bit as well as an injected motor but it takes a bit of work.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

LippCJ7j, the altitude is DEFINITELY a factor in the decision between Carbed and Injected, with Injected holding the cards at altitude.

 

[jkust]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

LippCJ7j, the altitude is DEFINITELY a factor in the decision between Carbed and Injected, with Injected holding the cards at altitude.

In MN at 800 ft, that benefit rarely crosses our minds. Now on the other hand on our snowmobiles, it is very common to trailer to higher altitude states and so every sledder thinks about that when making the efi or carb selection.

 

[Trim]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Good to know the pros and cons of each motor.

Got another boat for you guys to look at. Hope you all dont mind=)

http://www.deansrv.com/inventory/196951/Used-2009--Rinker-MTX210.aspx

The guy doesnt know much about the boat. It was traded in for an RV and his boss told him to sale and get rid of it since they are not in the boat business. 50 hours on the boat, snap in carpet, Mercruiser Alpha 1 5.0. Opinions?

 

[jkust]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Good to know the pros and cons of each motor.

Got another boat for you guys to look at. Hope you all dont mind=)

http://www.deansrv.com/inventory/196951/Used-2009--Rinker-MTX210.aspx

The guy doesnt know much about the boat. It was traded in for an RV and his boss told him to sale and get rid of it since they are not in the boat business. 50 hours on the boat, snap in carpet, Mercruiser Alpha 1 5.0. Opinions?

I don't care for the look of deck boats but they offer a much more usable bow area. I dislike the look of the hull but that is obviously pure personal preference. Also not a big fan of Rinker as a ho-hum boat maker but it has the MPI 5.0, however I'd expect nothing less from a 2009 over 20 feet.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

I don't care for the look of deck boats but they offer a much more usable bow area. I dislike the look of the hull but that is obviously pure personal preference. Also not a big fan of Rinker as a ho-hum boat maker but it has the MPI 5.0, however I'd expect nothing less from a 2009 over 20 feet.

That's actually kind of a hybrid hull. It's not what I would consider a deckboat, mainly due to the interior layout. That being said, there seems to be a ton of room up front, and with only 50hrs, it's just now broken in! I think if he could get it for $20K or less, it'd probably be a decent deal. Would be a pretty good boat for use on almost all Oklahoma lakes, with the only downfall being Grand Lake weekends on the busy side of the lake as that hull isn't the best for chopping through 30' cruiser wakes/chop. There isn't much that is good at those kinds of waters short of an offshore powerboat or another cruiser, lol. It's priced right for what a Rinker is, a decent mid-tier boat.

The other item about MPI vs. carbs is the bilge fuel fumes. It's not a major factor, but the MPI does keep everything contained so that it reduces chances of a bilge explosion due to a flooded carb, backfire, etc.

 

[Philster]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

I think we call that style of Rinker a sport deck. I think it offers a good enough V to get the job done and it seems like a nice overall package.

I feee safe to say it is probably a stable, reliable setup without knowing more about the hull handling details via a water test -- I have no mental notes that these are unstable boats prone to any bad behaviors. I can think of a few that do.

Eyeballing it says she should offer a decent balance of floating stability with ability to cut through chop. I agree that Rinker is solid middle-tier boat, but they tend to get a slightly higher score for style and eye appeal.

 

[Trim]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

After hearing what you guys had to say about this boat and the shape of the hull, will it get the job done for skiing, wakeboarding, and tubing?

 

[Philster]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Yes. All day and night, but... Wakeboarding is always best off a tower.... you do know that, right?

 

[Trim]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Yes sir I do. Would definitely have to get one if this boat becomes my choice.

 

[Trim]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

Is there a way to tell how much HP a motor has by looking at it, is it labeled somewhere? All they knew was it was a 5.0.

 

[Philster]

Re: Looking to buy, need some advice

There are only so many marine configurations. Know them before you go.

V8 Fuel injected #'s for newer engines:

5.0 -- 260 HP.
5.7 -- 300 HP
7.4 -- 330 (and a bunch more torque than the small blocks above)
8.1 -- 375*
8.1 HO -- 415, 425, 430 (depends on engine year)*


*Same for the 8.2, more or less.

V6 fuel-injected choice:

4.3 liters (which is a 5.7 V8 with two cylinders lopped off) = 220 HP