Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Is breaking in an outboard motor a question of running hours ? or number of gas tanks used ?

Any opinions ?

Tx

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Amsoil, Redline, Kohler, GM...they don't know squat!?? Right? C'mon.

Well, your mouth actually works. Whadda deal.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Running time at certain engine RPMs.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

avalonprogroup: Running time at certain engine RPMs.
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which would be ?? time ?

Tx

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

It depends on the MFG, but they usually have in depth instructions inside your owners manual.
IMO and IME In 10 hours of run time your motors is broke in as its getting.
With the Yamahas we run commercialy, no break in schedule is followed beyond mixing the first tank of gas at 25:1 per Yami's instructions. The motors take approximatly two tanks to fully break in when operated in a normal way.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker: IMO and IME In 10 hours of run time your motors is broke in as its getting
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It's the Force 15hp kicker. Seems I overated when I wrote it had around 50 hours. turns out it had anywhere from 2 to 5 hours on it. In which case if so, I did not break it in properly if it needed so, since I ran it on synthetic a normal 50:1 ratio and just used it as if it was already broken in.

I am making up by using Walmart tech 2000 which I beleve is quite similar to quicksilver, and obviously the motor is tuning in, running smoother and smoother as hours and gas tank goes by. I am now reaching 10 to 12 hours of mixed trolling and Wot it seems to run better and better each time I use it.

Unfortunatly not knowing the facts at the time, I did not run double oil for the first tank.

Cheers & tx for your infos

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

...just to let you folks know the results of Amsoil's Interceptor use on my 1992 350L 2 stroke Polaris Quad I had mentionned earlier. On start up, it hardly smokes at all compared to a little blue cloud with the regular 2 stroke oil. Also, when engine is warm, you can't hardly smell anything and there is no visible smoke. I'm very pleased with these results. I can't really say if it gives any better acceleration as the quad was never "slow" by any stretch. It does seem to start up smoother and respond better on start up when cold.

All to say, I think I'm going to try some Amsoil on my 15hp 2 stroke Evinrudes next.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

cobra 3.0 writes: All to say, I think I'm going to try some Amsoil on my 15hp 2 stroke Evinrudes next
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I guess you read my previous post regarding the amazing results I had with trying Amsoil HPI with my Johnson 9.9. Since you will try that oil in your 15 hp Evinrude I am very curious to read if you will have the same results as me. Keep me (us) posted.

Cheers 8)

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

It depends on the MFG, but they usually have in depth instructions inside your owners manual.
IMO and IME In 10 hours of run time your motors is broke in as its getting.
With the Yamahas we run commercialy, no break in schedule is followed beyond mixing the first tank of gas at 25:1 per Yami's instructions. The motors take approximatly two tanks to fully break in when operated in a normal way.

If you think 10hrs completes break-in, why do we see a steady increase in RPM on the bigger yammys clear through 40, even 50 hours on some....?

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Goouuud ... over 1100 hits on this forum ... never thought this subject would raise such curiosity. !!!!

Guess a lot of us are oil concerned huh ! LOL

The devil made me do it .... :devil:

Cheers to Y'awl

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx

8)8)8)

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker: The site is all about 4 cycle engines. I dont recall reading anything about 2 cycle outboards out there ???

May I ask your opinion Ben ... As I wrote to you lately I have switched to regular 2 cylcle oil in my 15hp Force since I have found that it hardly had been used. Had used synthetic for first tank.

Now with Walmart tech 2000 2 cycle oil I noticed the water coming out of the pump outlet is warmer than when I used synthetiec oil. Would you know what can explain that ??

Tx

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period.

You're getting by ONLYby technicality....
The same reason the newest technology DFI's and the E-Tec require no break-in.
The original question had to do with an older outboard, and the fact remains, synthetic SHOULD NOTbe used in those engines for break-in, period.
Now, if this turns into another attempt at steering away from clear facts, it will become useless and deleted.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

walleyehed writes: :The original question had to do with an older outboard, and the fact remains, synthetic SHOULD NOTbe used in those engines for break-in, period.
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I think I have partialy confirmed your statement in previous post. I started this forum by comparing results with 2 different outboards using Amsoil HPI oil.
My outboard, a 1997 Force 15hp is (was) just about unused when I got it. It had a manufacturing defect that kept it from starting (had it fixed) I imediatly used synthetic oil with it on the first tank of gaz and was disatistified with the results compared to those with my broken in Johnson 9hp

On second tank of gaz, after reading all comments, I went back to using regular tc-w3 oil (tech-2000) and the engine imediatly started showing some improvements, so I presume it needed breaking in and my observation is that the job was being done better with regular oil.

One more gaz tank and I ll go back to synthetic to see what happens and will keep you all posted.

Cheers to y'awl (lol)

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

I worked for an accredited laboratory that tested and certified outboard oils.

When any NMMA TC-W3 candidate outboard oil is tested and certified (using standardized tests in actual outboard engines), that oil is also used for break-in on the new test engine powerhead. This includes any candidate synthetic oils.

The synthetic oil either passes or fails the certification process, which includes evaluating and measuring piston skirt varnish, undercrown deposits, crownland deposits, second land deposits, ring sticking, compression, etc.

Break-in is part of that test. Break-in on the candidate oil is approximately a short 2 to 2-1/2 hours. At that point the engine is considered ready to perform the endurance testing and other tests.

Obviously a synthetic oil can not become NMMA TC-W3 certified if it can not be used as the break-in oil. In my years of experience, I do not recall a candidate synthetic or semi-synthetic 2-stroke outboard oil that could not be used as the break-in oil (ie: a failed test because of inadequate break-in).

Synthetic 2-stroke outboard oils are not so "slippery" as to not allow proper break-in. In fact, some non-synthetic candidate 2-stroke oils showed less wear after break-in.

I admire Bwalker for sticking to his guns on this. There is a lot of misinformation out there that conflicts with actual results. How the engine is "broken-in" (RPM, load, time, cooling, fuel, etc.) are much more important than the oil used. In my experience, I see no problem in using a synthetic oil for breaking-in an outboard, at least until the manufacturers say you shouldn't.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

bwalker: May I ask your opinion Ben ... As I wrote to you lately I have switched to regular 2 cylcle oil in my 15hp Force since I have found that it hardly had been used. Had used synthetic for first tank. Now with Walmart tech 2000 2 cycle oil I noticed the water coming out of the pump outlet is warmer than when I used synthetiec oil. Would you know what can explain that ??
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TheOilDoc: obviously you have some backgroung. I already questioned Ben Walker in a previous post ... may I ask you the same question ? (read previous lines)

Also may I ask one more question ? Amsoil HPI does not say tc-w3 certified on the can .. it says tc-w3 compatible .. now does this mean this oil would not have passed the test at the laboratory you worked at ??

Tx (hey this is getting interesting) :devil:

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

I respect your knowledge, OilDoc, and I can say I don't know about the TC-W3 time period, but when it was BIA, synthetics were not recommended for break-in.
And, as for using, or not using synthetic for break-in, in relation to TC-W3, most of the manufacturers TOP oils are not TC-W3 rated, so where does that leave us?

I think I'll use the "Rodbolt" approach and say everyone use synthetic for break-in.....we need more work in the shop anyway. No, I'm not talking new design....I'm talking low-time, older conventional 2-strokes and rebuilt carbed 2-strokes.
Why do they use nothing BUT synthetic for racing outboards???? If film strength is better with some dino oils, there really is no place for synthetic....
No need to answer the question...I don't work in an oil lab, but I do run hard in the field, and I work on alot of engines....you guys use what you want..I know what works in my equipment and what happens when "X" brand is used in others.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Dont baffle them with facts, Oil doc.
Pecheux, Small carb equiped outboards run diffrently depending on the water temp, ambiant air temp etc. Since carb tuning is fixed they have no way of compensation for changes in conditions. As a result performance changes from day to day.
Walleyehead, Why is it so hard to admit that my points are valid? OIlDoc has backed me up and i think he has a wee bit more knowledge onthe subject than yourself.
old wives tails die hard......

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

oin

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

pecheux, many things could be causing you to feel a temperature increase in the water outlet. Oil type or brand is not one of them...at least not a factor that could be measured by the feel of the hand, or even with basic temperature measuring equipment.

Only oils meeting or exceeding the NMMA's TC-W3® requirements will be labeled as such. Each container will carry the TC-W3® oil certification mark and the oil's NMMA TC-W3® registration number. Almost all reputable oils, even those from small manufacturers, carry this certification and perform accordingly. An oil not carrying the certification only indicates that the oil is not certifed, and there is no way for the customer to know if it actually meets the NMMA's TC-W3's requirements. I would be careful of marketing gimmicks skirting whether or not they actually "meet" TC-W3. The term "compatible" has nothing to do with actually meeting TC-W3, and I would not recommend using a non-TC-W3 certified oil where one is specified by the manufacturer of the outboard.