Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Lets discuss two-stroke outboards...No outboard manufactuer ever recommended use of a synthetic oil for break-in in a pre-mix engine or oil injected engines. With the advent of DFI engines what became recommended changed. DFI engines require a synthetic or semi synthetic oil for reasons of combustion and atomization. Since dino oil screws the systems up, manufacturers have made a trade off in relation to additional wear and tear verus injection system malfunctions. This subject has been beat to death yet again.

 

[moderator1]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker...how were you able to look behind the rings?
And yes, who cares about who works at BRP...I'm talking professional engine rebuilding to exacting standards.
If you truely believe a carbed 2-stroke will not glaze-over trying to break it in with syn, think again.
I think we've been introduced to the man that has done more than anyone else here, and if you're not a tech, how do you substantiate your findings? 250hrs? come on.....I run that in 3 months in one of my 3 rigs...
Maybe you missed the part about running these engines over 6500RPM...they come apart alot more often with dino....that's why we HAVE to run Synthetic.
I'm not going to get in a pi$$ing contest with a consumer who has tried 3 oils in 3 engines.
Use the oil that works for you and allow those that use something else to continue doing so, without being told thier oil is all hype.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Lets discuss two-stroke outboards...No outboard manufactuer ever recommended use of a synthetic oil for break-in in a pre-mix engine or oil injected engines. .

No one reccomended against it either. Liek is aid I have looked in the merc and Yamaha manuals I have. Why do the market syn and semi-Synthetic oils?

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker...how were you able to look behind the rings?
.
If you truely believe a carbed 2-stroke will not glaze-over trying to break it in with syn, think again.
I think we've been introduced to the man that has done more than anyone else here, and if you're not a tech, how do you substantiate your findings? 250hrs? come on.....I run that in 3 months in one of my 3 rigs...
Maybe you missed the part about running these engines over 6500RPM...they come apart alot more often with dino....that's why we HAVE to run Synthetic.
I'm not going to get in a pi$$ing contest with a consumer who has tried 3 oils in 3 engines.
Use the oil that works for you and allow those that use something else to continue doing so, without being told thier oil is all hype.

I was able to inspect the rings through the exhaust. If a ring depsoit issue is present its very easy to see.
As for glaze. I raced snowmobiles and motor cycles in the past. I never rana drop of dyno oil in either. Breakin procedures/loading is whats crucial in preventing glaze, not oil type.
I substaniate my findings by conducting fair tests and observing the 30+ outboards that my company uses on a daily basis. I also tend to research things on my own instead of blindly sescribing to hysteria, old wives tails and crap thats spewed by Amsoil.

 

[tommays]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

I love oil

Ran my 5.5/6/ /33/40/50 jonny on jonny oil for 40 years at WOT so it must be the best


Tommays

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

I love oil

Ran my 5.5/6/ /33/40/50 jonny on jonny oil for 40 years at WOT so it must be the best


Tommays

I run Amsoil! No smoke, my motor gained 500 rpms, made 10 more HP, will last for ever and it doubles as a hair tonic and salad dressing!

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

.[[/u]quote]I was able to inspect the rings through the exhaust. If a ring depsoit issue is present its very easy to see.
[/quote]
Can't be done that way...as I expected.
"Breakin procedures/loading is whats crucial in preventing glaze, not oil type."
.......This is where synthetic kills ya..the oil most certainly DOES cause glazing because it won't break down enough to allow rings to seat. it allows too much ring float.
Like everything else , this doesn't matter except for you, but we sold Yamaha sleds for 14 years and went to Arctic Cat in 1996 and still have that line.. we own 3 of Tim Benders Race sleds, I raced for team Yamaha for 7 years with 5 others in the KS, CO. group and have 4 titles for colorado in sno-cross, we run No2 in the drags, so I really don't need any lessons in sled engines either, as I've likely changed more pistons and jugs in a weekend than most will in their life.
Don't use synthetic for break-in.

 

[JB]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Seems to me that a lot of guys are reporting their actual experiences. Though not statistically valid they are real.

Some other guys are quoting qualified opinions as proven fact and based on credible theory.

Reminds me of a written response I got to a paper I presented years ago on results (statistically valid) of an experimental learning experience I devised. A bone fide guru in adult education told me this: "That may stand up well in practice, JB, but it wont work in theory."

Seems that some guys are reporting results and other guys (bwalker) are explaining that the facts contradict sound theory and wont work.

This is nothing to fight about and call names. It happens a lot. Agree to disagree and call it a day, please.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

.[[/u]quote]I was able to inspect the rings through the exhaust. If a ring depsoit issue is present its very easy to see.

Can't be done that way...as I expected.
"Breakin procedures/loading is whats crucial in preventing glaze, not oil type."
.......This is where synthetic kills ya..the oil most certainly DOES cause glazing because it won't break down enough to allow rings to seat. it allows too much ring float.
Like everything else , this doesn't matter except for you, but we sold Yamaha sleds for 14 years and went to Arctic Cat in 1996 and still have that line.. we own 3 of Tim Benders Race sleds, I raced for team Yamaha for 7 years with 5 others in the KS, CO. group and have 4 titles for colorado in sno-cross, we run No2 in the drags, so I really don't need any lessons in sled engines either, as I've likely changed more pistons and jugs in a weekend than most will in their life.
Don't use synthetic for break-in.



[/quote]
You most certainly can inspect rings through the exhaust port as the deposits that cause ring stick also build up on the piston skirt and crwon land area.
As for a synthetic oil "not breaking down". Thats complete BS. They are designed to break down cleaner! thats one of their main advantages in a two stroke.
Keep on parroting old wives tales.....

Your racing accomplishments while impressive do not mean your right. I have known many racers of some rpute that knew scat about engines or oils. Ditto for dealers. INfact, I would wager most dealers know even less about lubricants than most others. They listen to the crap told them be sales reps and take it as gospel.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

BTW Walleyehead, I hope you never used Yamalube as its a partially synthetic oil. If you did your motrs are probaly glazed beyond belief.....o

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

This ones for walleyehead. I caught it yesterday along with 3 others. A 31",30", 27", and a 24".

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Darn nice fish.......most go a life-time without ever seeing a 30 incher...Nice job.
A 31" walleye in June, here, would weigh in around 15-15.5.....about 16.25 in March.
How much did the 31 weigh?

EDIT: BTW, we never ran Yamalube....Klotz only at that time...but never broke'em in with it...we actually used J/E oil off the shelf for the stand break-in.

 

[KYHunter2]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

PLEASE TELL ME i'M ASLEEP !!!!

Not another oil debate , I havent even read anything yet. LOL

Maybe if there were less oil , posts . The new site would speed up and work right.


LMAO,

KYHunter dd

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Darn nice fish.......most go a life-time without ever seeing a 30 incher...Nice job.
A 31" walleye in June, here, would weigh in around 15-15.5.....about 16.25 in March.
How much did the 31 weigh?

EDIT: BTW, we never ran Yamalube....Klotz only at that time...but never broke'em in with it...we actually used J/E oil off the shelf for the stand break-in.

It weighed 12lb 4 oz. Its actually not a big fish for this particular lake.We have caught them up to 19 lbs.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

PLEASE TELL ME i'M ASLEEP !!!!

Not another oil debate , I havent even read anything yet. LOL

Maybe if there were less oil , posts . The new site would speed up and work right.


LMAO,

KYHunter dd

If you dont like it, dont click on the subject!

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Real nice fish.d

 

[BillP]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Fish camp experience evidently has little to do with the rest of the world when glazing is concerned. Experienced motorheads on every corner of the planet know glazing isn't a "myth" or "BS" with synthetic for break in. If you listen to them there is no debate on sythetic glazing reality. It just depends on the motor mfg whether a concern or not.

One common denominator on glazing is the Nikasil process...that puts certain Kawasakis, BMW mcys and Kohler motors at the top. BMW and Kohler say in writing that synthetic break in won't let the rings seat. I didn't check Kawasaki specs. GM crate engines are not Nikasil and the factory still says don't use synthetic for break in.

 

[KYHunter2]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker,
I just think its hilarious, the same thing argued about over and over .

As far as what I do or don't click on . Thats my option, as well as, what I post or dont post.

If you don't like my comments don't read them , in the future!!!!

I was just having fun !!!

But I've noticed your a might too thin skinned .

LMAO, LMAO ,

Not that I give a flip, one way or the other .

I'll not respond to anything you reply to this.

I quit the senseless argueing when I graduated elementary school.

ddd LMAO ddd

KYHunter

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Fish camp experience evidently has little to do with the rest of the world when glazing is concerned. Experienced motorheads on every corner of the planet know glazing isn't a "myth" or "BS" with synthetic for break in. If you listen to them there is no debate on sythetic glazing reality. It just depends on the motor mfg whether a concern or not.

One common denominator on glazing is the Nikasil process...that puts certain Kawasakis, BMW mcys and Kohler motors at the top. BMW and Kohler say in writing that synthetic break in won't let the rings seat. I didn't check Kawasaki specs. GM crate engines are not Nikasil and the factory still says don't use synthetic for break in.

Am I am not doubting that the same old stuff in regards to synthetics is regurjatated over and over by people who SHOULD know better. The fact of the matter is they do not and the same blanket statements, myths and BS are passed over and over.
Kawasaki does not use nicicsil in theior two strokes, but rather a plating made up of chrome and a few other elements. Definatly not Nicisil. Dito with Kohler as they are mostly cast iron lined.
While this issue is being thrown around the question needs to be asked what exactly is a synthetic? Will a BMW engine properly break in on Castrol synthetic? The reason I ask is because Castrol synthetics are not really synthetics at all, but rather very highly refinded mineral oils. I suppose because its labeled synthetic its automaticly bad?
What synthetics are the problem in regards to breakin? Alkalayted napthalenes, esters of various sorts, PIB's, PAO's? UHVI mineral oils(called syn thetics)? Which ones are the problems? Clear as mud? You bet.
One question that keeps getting side stepped by my detracttors is: if synthetics are bad for break in, cause glazing, etc why do Yamaha, BRP and Merc all sell oils for normal use(including new break in) that contain synthetic base oils? I am not talking about a Kohler, or a BMW!
As for me personaly I believe synthetics are of some value in certain applications but I do not use them in my personal boats or in business as they have several issues that dont jive well with my applications. Mainly price and corrosion protection. I saw this lest I get accused of being a Amsoil zealot!