Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

, rust preventatives were lacking and I've seen snowmobile and outboard crankshafts that were so rusty you could hardly identify them Those days are long gone. Could it be that the manufacturers wanted to sell "their" oil so they mandated that no other will do (at least during break-in). I use both.

I dont know if I would say those days are long gone. Redline two stroke racing oil has a history of corrosion issues. especially when mixed with pump gas. I also had corrosion issues with Klotz snowmobile oil.
A ester based oil does not protect against corrosion as well as a mineral or PIB mineral blend IME.
Fogging is critical for motrs being stored IMO and IME.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

bwalker writes: A ester based oil does not protect against corrosion as well as a mineral or PIB mineral blend IME. Fogging is critical for motrs being stored IMO and IME.
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If so .... this definitly deserves some attention .... especialy for those who use their boat in salt water and live by the ocean humid and salty air.
PS: I am not familiar with the term IMO and IME ??

Have a great day ... (fishing or business or both ... lol) :'(

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

silvertip: I think 4 cycle engine oil VS 2 cycle mix is two different world due to the lubrification system for each.

Cheers

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

walleyehed writes: I seen a powerhead failure in 2004 using HPI, yet they could not prove the cause of the failure, they replaced the powerhead. That in itself gave me the confidence to run the HPI and feel good about it.
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I have never heard of any other brand named oil that would cover such repairs ...

Here's one that's a lot less expensive, and it's acutually certifed to meet TC-W3.

Per Mercury Marine:

"Oils so advanced, they're guaranteed.

We're so confident in our oils we back them with a one-year limited warranty. If any Mercury Precision Lubricants product fails and causes marine engine damage, your entire engine is covered. We'll even pay reasonable labor charges for repairs."

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker, Yes, we use Interceptor in the sleds, not the HPI.
The gent I ride with is a Cat dealer and X-Yamaha Dealer...we used to run Klotz in our drag sleds and sno-cross sleds (which were Yamahas), and when he took the Cat dealership, some of the people we raced with were using Amsoil...Gary switched to that and so did I...

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

bwalker writes: A ester based oil does not protect against corrosion as well as a mineral or PIB mineral blend IME. Fogging is critical for motrs being stored IMO and IME.
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If so .... this definitly deserves some attention .... especialy for those who use their boat in salt water and live by the ocean humid and salty air.

All TC-W3 certified oils must pass a rust test. The test involves submerging reeds in a solution of 1/2 pound sodium chloride and 1 gallon distilled water, and then hanging the material in an accellerated environment. This is worth considering if you plan on using an oil in a marine environment that is not TC-W3 certified.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker, Yes, we use Interceptor in the sleds, not the HPI.
The gent I ride with is a Cat dealer and X-Yamaha Dealer...we used to run Klotz in our drag sleds and sno-cross sleds (which were Yamahas), and when he took the Cat dealership, some of the people we raced with were using Amsoil...Gary switched to that and so did I...

Were in Kansas do you ride sleds?
I have tried several differant snowmobile oils in the last few years including Interceptor. I have been using Citgo Sea and Snow in my 05 Renegade 800 since new. The sled has about 4800 miles on it and it hasnt missed a beat. I clean the valves yearly but it hasnt really needed it yet. This oil cost $7.99 per gallon! Its a JASO FC CERTIFIED semi synthetic and a low smoke/odor oil.
I used Amsoil Interceptor in another sled(XC-800) I owned and couldnt not tell the differance other than the fact it cost 4 times as much.
I forgot to mention that my Doo uses oil like its going out of style. Its oil injected but when you do the math it works out to 20:1. I havent messed with the pump setting as these motors have a history of dieing young and so far mine has lasted longer than two friends that bought them at the same time. Not bad for oil that cost a paltry $7.99 a gallon. BTW I have never fouled a single plug. it still has the original plugs that I put in after break in.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

bwalker writes: A ester based oil does not protect against corrosion as well as a mineral or PIB mineral blend IME. Fogging is critical for motrs being stored IMO and IME.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
If so .... this definitly deserves some attention .... especialy for those who use their boat in salt water and live by the ocean humid and salty air.

All TC-W3 certified oils must pass a rust test. The test involves submerging reeds in a solution of 1/2 pound sodium chloride and 1 gallon distilled water, and then hanging the material in an accellerated environment. This is worth considering if you plan on using an oil in a marine environment that is not TC-W3 certified.

Both the oils I mentioned are non TCW3 certified oils.
That being said you would have thought the calcium and magnesium sulfonates found in a low ash oils(Redline and R-50 are low ash oils) additive package would have raised the TBN and helped with corrosion, but it didnt.
Redline actually corroded the brass in my bikes carb black! I was worried that the corrosion would change the orifice diameter so I put new jets in it and discontinued the use of Redline oil. The funny thing was Redlines head chemist admitted to me that they had a problem, but that it would require a reformulation to fix that they were not willing to do.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

bwalker writes: A ester based oil does not protect against corrosion as well as a mineral or PIB mineral blend IME. Fogging is critical for motrs being stored IMO and IME.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
If so .... this definitly deserves some attention .... especialy for those who use their boat in salt water and live by the ocean humid and salty air.
PS: I am not familiar with the term IMO and IME ??

Have a great day ... (fishing or business or both ... lol) :'(

IMO = In my oppinion and IME= in my expiereance.
When it comes to ester based oils corrosion protection its pretty clear why some have issue with corrosion. Some esters are pretty unstable in the presence of water. That means that a premium is placed on the additive package containing adequate anti corrosion components. I believe this is the reason that 100% ester based tcw3 oils are pretty rare. The only one I am aware of is Pennzoil, and there is some doubt as to if it is indeed a 100% ester based oil.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker, I live in NW Kansas... we are at 3600ft elevation and have an average snow-fall of around 40" a year, although last season we had over 60", so we don't ride much here but spend alot of time in Colorado, as we are only 2-1/2 hours from the Rockies... We run mainly at Grand Lake, but frequent Buena Vista, Rabbit Ears near Steamboat, and hit the 3-man Cross-country races at Red River, NM. every year.
It's common when people think of Kansas, to find it hard to believe the weather we have in the far western part.
Look at a weather map sometime and note the change in topography in the western part of KS...
I'll have to see if I can find the Citgo around here.

Doc, thanks for the info on the Merc oil.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

As much as I appreciated using Amsoil Injector in my 1981 Johnson 9.9 ... I dont find the same result with my newer 1997 Force 15hp.<br /><br />This engine has probably less than 50 hours on it and may not be broken in properly yet ... (?)<br /><br />And if that is the case would it be possible that it would need regular mfg oil instead of Synth ? At least for a while.<br /><br />But then again ... what is mfg oil for a discontinued Force outboard ? LOL<br /><br />Cheers to y'awl,

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

As much as I appreciated using Amsoil Injector in my 1981 Johnson 9.9 ... I dont find the same result with my newer 1997 Force 15hp.<br /><br />This engine has probably less than 50 hours on it and may not be broken in properly yet ... (?)<br /><br />And if that is the case would it be possible that it would need regular mfg oil instead of Synth ? At least for a while.<br /><br />But then again ... what is mfg oil for a discontinued Force outboard ? LOL<br /><br />Cheers to y'awl,

Try Mercury Premium plus or Yamalube 2m. Both are very good from what I have seen.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Bwalker, I live in NW Kansas... we are at 3600ft elevation and have an average snow-fall of around 40" a year, although last season we had over 60", so we don't ride much here but spend alot of time in Colorado, as we are only 2-1/2 hours from the Rockies... We run mainly at Grand Lake, but frequent Buena Vista, Rabbit Ears near Steamboat, and hit the 3-man Cross-country races at Red River, NM. every year.
It's common when people think of Kansas, to find it hard to believe the weather we have in the far western part.
Look at a weather map sometime and note the change in topography in the western part of KS...
I'll have to see if I can find the Citgo around here.

Doc, thanks for the info on the Merc oil.

I always think of Kansas as flat and dry. Heck I live at fairly high elevation for the midwest and i am not at 3600. Of course I live in the Lake Superior snowbelt/ UP of MI so we get alot more snow than 40". I remeber one year where we got about 8 times that amount!

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Yea, we don't have near the sledding conditions you have, so we travel to enjoy that hobby....expensive hobby at that...
We are actually very flat here, but we are on a platue that starts in the frontrange area of Denver, and continues east for about 180 miles..
When we do get those 20"+ snows, it's usually with some wind so it is very hard snow, and you can go for 30-50 miles in about any direction you want...it's actually very good riding conditions when we get those...

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

Gentlemen: Thank you for the conversation (writing) I think it has been an interesting exchange of ideas, of knowledge, and of experiences.

I dont know if there is more to be said,

Thank you, 8)

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

I am just gald some myths got put to bed.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

I've been told by a diesel mechanic of 30 years to use regular oil in engines during break in, and then use synthetic for the remainder of the engine's life to maximize lifespan.

I know that my uncle put Slick 50 in his Chevy before it was broken in, and it has since always smoked blue. It only had a few thousand miles on it when he did it, and he regrets it.

Sythetic is so good that it prevents proper break in. That's what I was told by a mechanic. Whether it's true or not I dont know, but I do know it makes sense.

I also have no idea how what I said rolls over into outboards. I was just passing on info! LOL

 

[Bwalker]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

I've been told by a diesel mechanic of 30 years to use regular oil in engines during break in, and then use synthetic for the remainder of the engine's life to maximize lifespan.

I know that my uncle put Slick 50 in his Chevy before it was broken in, and it has since always smoked blue. It only had a few thousand miles on it when he did it, and he regrets it.

Sythetic is so good that it prevents proper break in. That's what I was told by a mechanic. Whether it's true or not I dont know, but I do know it makes sense.

I also have no idea how what I said rolls over into outboards. I was just passing on info! LOL

The problem with diesels and break in is that they really need high loading to break in. The theory not to use synthetics in diesels during break in is based on this fact and the fact that synthetics are attributed to protecting metal to metal contact better. This latter point is for the most part false as film strength has a direct corellation with viscosity.
As for the comment about synthetics preventing break in. me thinks your mechanic should stick to turning wrenches...d

Slick 50?LOL.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

bwalker writes: As for the comment about synthetics preventing break in. me thinks your mechanic should stick to turning wrenches...">
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Not that I completely share your opinion on that ... but it was nicely said .... LOL LOL

Back on oil .... (g) ... I have tried several bran oil in that there Force 15hp motor in order to eliminate the smoke after trolliing for a while ... like 20 min or so ... giving it trottle will bring a rather big cloud of smoke out of the exhaust and the motor will run shaky for a while. Now I dont get this using the Johnson 9.9hp. Would this mean the oil does not get burned properly ? if so ... what's the cure ? (beside buying another bran 15hp that is)

Are there bran or types of oil that burn easier than others ? if so which one ?

Tx

 

[pecheux]

Re: Mfg oil vs Synthetic for breaking in

follow ... or should I use higher grade gasoline for cleaner and perhaps hotter combustion ?

Just a thought ...