Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

[Gus Nelson]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

I'm a new guy here and still learning about outboard engines. The one thing I noticed in this thread is that the original poster said he had good pressure on the squeeze bulb. He should have the 2 line pressure tank unless it has been converted. Or did i miss that somewhere?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

As stated above, flywheel torque is not really a guessing game. 60 ft/lbs is what it should be.

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Flywheel key appears to be intact, unless I don't know what I'm looking at.



So, to recap: Compression=good, spark=good, flywheel nut=intact (and soon to be torqued correctly)...that leaves what? Fuel delivery system? I think my next step, unless I hear different, is to pull the carb back off and clean/blow everything out, then re-install and try again. Maybe I got some crud in there.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

I think you are correct, pull the carb and recheck it. Make sure the choke plate closes completely. When you cleaned the carb the first time did you remove the core plug on top of the passages in there?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Even with carb issues, introducing a fuel/oil mixture into the cylinder should ignite with adequate compression and spark.

Something else is being missed here.

Is this a tiller or non tiller?

Is the motor on a boat, or in a test barrel?

What is your starting procedure?

How is it wired, to a key switch, push button, killl circuit, etc....

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Tiller steer, motor is on a boat but being tested in a barrel pushed up against the transom. Electric starter is wired to a push-button switch mounted by an enterprising previous owner to the front of the motor. To start it, I fill the barrel to overflowing (a couple of inches higher than the water intake above the anti-ventilation plate), pump the fuel line bulb until it's firm, and hit the starter button.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

I didn't see what plugs you are running and what are they gapped to?

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Can't remember the exact model, but they're the recommended Champion plugs (J6C maybe?) gapped to 0.030". Tested them for continuity last night and both seem good.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

OK, here are the facts.
Compression 120 on both cylinders.
Spark will jump a 1/4" air gap and is bright blue.
Correct spark plugs and gapped properly.
Will not start if fuel is squirted directly into the carb.
By the rules, it should start or at least run until the fuel yousprayed into the carb is used up.
This one is going to take some serious thinking, and it's late. Will have to think on it tomarrow and get back into the frey.

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

That's all correct. I appreciate everybody taking the time to participate here. I'm going to remove the carb and clean it again; it was covered with paint when I removed it, and I soaked/scrubbed it until all the paint came off and it was bare metal again. There's easily a chance I've got some crud down in there somewhere. I'll spray out all the little openings and what-not and try again.

 

[lindy46]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

I'd make sure the spark plus are sparking. Remove them, leave the wires on, ground them to the motor, and see if they're sparking. Make sure there is NO gas in the cylinders or screw some extra plugs in the holes - you don't want a fire.

 

[AlTn]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

I'm with Lindy...since you'll have the carb removed, test for continuing strong spark, say for 15 to 20 secs...both plugs removed and ground the nontested plugwire...shouldn't have a fuel spray out the plug holes issue w/o the carb in place

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

I took the flywheel off last night and checked for a sheared flywheel key - no dice there, the key is in good shape. Tonight, I took off the carb and partially disassembled it. I blew into the fuel inlet with the carb upside-down (no go - needle seems to be seated) and right-side up (could blow through it fine)...which I think means the inlet is not clogged and the float valve assembly is functioning correctly.

I'll disassemble and clean the rest of the carb tomorrow night, and re-install it the following night. (Frankly, my urgency level has gone way down since, as of this weekend, I am effectively out of summer in which to use the boat and motor due to travel and other commitments.) While I've got the carb off, I'll re-install the starter motor and test for spark again.

I'm thinking it almost HAS to be fuel delivery issue.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Tiller steer, motor is on a boat but being tested in a barrel pushed up against the transom. Electric starter is wired to a push-button switch mounted by an enterprising previous owner to the front of the motor. To start it, I fill the barrel to overflowing (a couple of inches higher than the water intake above the anti-ventilation plate), pump the fuel line bulb until it's firm, and hit the starter button.

Ill assume you are putting the tiller to the extreme left, or CCW, the START position, in neutral and with choke?

Have you tried manually starting?

Could you post a few pics of the whole setup, we may be able to spot what is wrong, or a video of you trying to start it?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

I double-checked the whole thread and couldn't see this mentioned, so I will.

Just for fun (and maybe more ) reverse the plug leads.
Easy to mix them and that would certainly stop it from starting.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Hopefully the troubleshooting doesnt go to the extreme of opening up the powerhead. I have seen components installed incorrectly, such as pistons in backwards. THAT took some troubleshooting!

Also magnets will still grab a screwdriver?

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Actually, the Fast/Slow/Start plate is long-gone from my tiller handle...so I have no idea where the start position is. Motor is in neutral; I generally don't mess with the choke. Seems I read somewhere it needs to be pulled out ("closed") until the motor fires, then it can be pushed back in ("opened") because the motor is ready to run...but frankly I haven't needed it before, and now that I seem to need it, it doesn't seem to help.

I have not (and don't intend to) try manually starting this thing. There's a pull-start rope there, but I consider that more of a decoration than what you'd call an actual alternative starting method. I like my shoulders and elbows just the way they are, thank you very much. One of the main reasons I bought this thing was the electric start.

When I get it all put back together, I'll take some "reassembled" photos and a video of the startup attempt and post here. With a little luck it'll be this week.

EDIT: Part of my issue with the tiller handle deal is that it "sproings" back no matter which way (or how far) I turn it, and the gears at the elbow don't really mesh all that well. I have a new tiller arm assembly on the way that will hopefully fix most of that. In the meantime, I can't work the starter and the choke and the low-speed adjustment and the throttle-twist-grip (actually a screwdriver in a hole now, since the grip broke and the screw sheared last weekend) all at once. I am probably doing so many things wrong that it's comical to you guys.

What I really need is a guy in the north Houston area that will trade some mechanic labor for cold beer...

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Im pretty sure it is something simple you are missing.

If you were closer I would come over, but Texas is a tad far for me, lol. Ive had many people bring motors over from this site.

So you have had it running at one time?

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Oh, yeah, I've had it running. We had the maiden voyage of Buoy Scout, the Macomber 15 skiff we've been building, about three or four weekends ago now. Motor started right up and ran okay, but it never seemed to "top out." Didn't seem like it would go to WOT, and it wouldn't come close to planing the 15' skiff with two adults and a 9-year-old.

So, spent a week fiddling and adjusting and tried again, this time with two adults and two kids. According to GPS, we hit a scalding 9mph. Made it about halfway across the lake and she sputtered and died, stranding us for a couple hours. Finally had to flag somebody down to tow us back to the dock.

Since then, I've done a new water pump impeller, plus the carb rebuild and replaced the coils/points/condensers/plugs/plug wires. I've gapped the points, but I can't set the timing because I can find no timing marks on the flywheel. Plus I don't know what I'm doing...

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

The timing is fixed, and not adjustable. The hash marks are for adjusting the points using a timing fixture, which you likely dont have.

Just set the points to 020 with a feeler gauge when the points are riding on the widest part of the cam. Then clean with acetone. Fingerprints limit spark.