Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

[milliesdad]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

You do have the correct wires going from coil to poits and coil o ground?

The kill switch wires are disconnected?

Roll tiller handle all the way counter clockwise? (don'gt believe the marking on the handle-thee should be a smiley facet here)

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Pretty sure (see photos - black wire to screw on coil, green wire to points).

Yes, they're disconnected.

Does it matter where the tiller handle is while I'm just checking spark? There's no fuel attached...

 

[bwkre]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

You mentioned that the unit was an awful purple colour & it is difficult to find a good ground. Is the motor repainted as well? I wonder if the previous owner had the stator plate removed when it was painted. If you have a multimeter I would suggest checking continuity from the stator plate to the motor. Clip one meter lead on each piece and rotate the plate to check for loss of continuity. I do not believe there is a direct wire connection between the two and because the plate rotates it is possible to have an intermittent connection. Or try another spark test with a jumper from the motor to the stator base and see if that cures the intermittent loss of spark.

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Quick update: Put it all back together this morning, since I'm leaving town in an hour and I need to take back all the borrowed tools first. Double-checked all the nuts, bolts, screws, etc., made sure I had no leftover parts, connected the fuel line, pumped until the bulb was firm. Made sure high- and low-speed needle valves were backed out one full turn from lightly seated. Made sure motor was in neutral and throttle was all the way CCW (@ Slow). Stood back and hit the button.

Same results as before. Motor turned over, sputtered once, and then nothing. From that point on, it would crank but it never fired again. Tried until the battery was too weak to turn the starter motor.

I'm leaving town in just a bit, and when I get back I'm taking it to the repair shop. I'm frustrated and tired of screwing with it. I've wasted about four weekends now trying to figure it out, and now I'm out of summer so the kids and I can't even enjoy a day on the water (I travel most weekends in the fall). Thanks to all of you for your help, but I think it's time to let a professional have a go at it.

 

[AlTn]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

when you regain your desire and patience for this < you're extremely close ignition wise now > here's what I think I see..Post #70 Pic 1..gap is too wide..Pic 3 coil heel inset a little too much....Post #73 Pic 1..build up on heel needs to be cleaned off < just clean in place as the location looks good >..Pic 2..gap is too wide....as Joe Reeves has said...an .018 feeler should fall out of the gap and an .022 shouldn't fit w/o forcing it between the contacts....carb rebuild and setting should go more quickly ..if you'll just post pics, plenty of folks will share their knowledge and experience with you

 

[ronboonville]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Don't give up yet! have been following your thread. I have suffered the same frustration with my big twin and found a lot of help here. One thing I noticed was the ground wire on the coil. somewhere in a manual, or here I read that ground wire should far from the points, other screw. I also found a hole in one plug wire because of wire not being correctly installed on bottom of plate, check your clamps and plates. I was getting small shock from block when cranking. Does it spin fast when cranking? some times that means no fuel. I found a hole in the hose that runs from the fuel pump to the lower cylinder. Is the roller on the carb linkage in the right posistion? it can move backwards when you take the mag plate off and replace so make sure it is right and you have no binding when rotating plate. It ran before and will run again. stop and start over. I rebuilt my carb but still had some stuff plug up the valve when I pulled it back apart. check all wires on points and coil, make sure nothing is pinched or grounding out. to get mine to fire I squirted a good shot of fuel down the carb throat using a pump type oil can. If the throttle plate is closed the gas won't get past it. Don't give up, like I said, start over. It is hard to find a mechanic that will or can work on your motor. I really think it is a fuel problem. My wife asked me how much I had spent on my motor, when I told her she said isn't that the amount you would have paid someone else to fix? I said yeah, but what about the fun I've had.

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Okay, I'm back with some good news and a few questions. This is going to be brief, because I just typed out a long post complete with video and my computer crashed, and I don't want to do it all again.

Long story short, with a little help I got the motor running again, and it purrs much more smoothly than it did before I started working on it. Pretty much everything I was told here on the forums was helpful in some way; the culprit turned out to be a couple of screws I'd forgotten to tighten up when I was reinstalling the ignition components. The armature plate was wobbling all over the place, causing the timing to be all out of whack even after adjustment.

So we got that fixed, and after a little needle-valve adjustment, she fired right up. She now runs smooth and will actually idle without dying, which is just remarkable to me. Have a couple of questions now, though. First, take a look at the video below. The flywheel seems "wobbly" to me; is that normal, or is something still amiss? I've tightened everything I can find to tighten, and torqued the flywheel nut to 65 ft-lb. Maybe it's normal and I'm just paranoid.

Lastly, take a look at the photo below. That's my water barrel after running the motor for about 5 minutes; note the milky-white color of the water. Is that groovy, or do I have another project to tackle? I've not done anything to the lower unit, other than remove it to replace the water pump impeller.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

The flywheel should run true, did you make sure the taper on the crankshaft was perfectly clean, as well as the taper in the flywheel?
Did you try and remove the flywheel with a puller that grabs the outer ebge of the flywheel?
The water will look funky because of the unburnt oil/fuel mixture that goes through the exhaust. You might want to check the lower unit oil just to make sure there is no water in it.

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

No, I didn't check the crankshaft taper or the flywheel taper...had no idea that was a thing to check. But I'm a pro at disassembling this sucker now, I can have the flywheel off in about five minutes. Used a harmonic balancer puller to pull the flywheel, so I don't think I messed it up getting it off.

Is checking for water in the lower unit a quick project, or an all-day deal? Is it something that needs to be done before we go back to the lake for the day? Everybody is itching to get on the water (since I've spent like 6 weeks now working on the motor) and I hate to tell them it's going to be another week while I work on something else. But I also don't want the thing to sieze up or something while we're across the lake. Getting towed back last time was no fun at all.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Just loosen the drain screw in the lower unit and see if you get any water out of the lower unit or just gear oil.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Or if the gear oil has become an emulsion, often called "milkshake" in these forums.
Means water is getting into gearcase....either because drain screw seals are leaking and need replacing....best case, or some internal seals need replacing. More involved, but still very doable.

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Is this what you mean by "milkshake"?



That's what came out when I opened it up. And it doesn't look anything like what's supposed to go in, unless I bought the wrong kind of "Outboard Gear Lube", which looks a whole lot like motor oil.

So, I say again - is this a "postpone your trip to the lake tomorrow and fix this ASAP" kind of deal, or a "fill it with new lube, enjoy your Labor Day, and fix this afterwards" kind of deal?

 

[Daviet]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Yep, milkshake. I would refill it with fresh oil and make sure to replace the seal washers on the drain/vent screws. Run it and then recheck the condition of the oil.
Hard to say if you can postpone until after labor day, depends how many hours you put on it.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

In the same situation, I replaced the gear oil, AND the drain screw seals, and enjoyed whatever weekend it was....I then checked the gear oil again and ended up replacing the internal seals.
You may be luckier.

Enjoy your Labour Day!

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

We just want to spend a couple of hours playing. It's about a 30-minute ride out to the little "swimmer's island" in the middle of the lake, and a 30-minute ride back. Double that for safety factor and figure 2 hours of run-time. I don't have new seals / O-rings for the drain plugs, so I'll have to make do either with what I've got or what I can find locally in a pinch, until I can get some ordered.

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Stupid question: Do I refill it from the top hole (where it says "Fill With Hypoid Oil") or the bottom hole (where it says "Drain Oil")? I assume the top hole, but I seem to recall reading something somewhere about having to fill from the bottom up.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

No, fill it from the bottom until it comes out the top. Make sure you allow time for all the air to be pushed out of the top hole. If you can't replace the seal washers, remove them and turn them over to try and get a better seal.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

i would just refill the gearcase with new oil, run it for awhile and recheck/change as needed for the weekend. that wobbly flywheel is a concern tho.

 

[adt2]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

Yeah, that wobbly flywheel bothers me too. I pulled it off and cleaned out the keyway and the shaft hole. I also cleaned off the top of the crankshaft. Then I put a very light coat of grease inside the flywheel shaft hole, and reinstalled it.

I haven't started it back up yet, because I'm working on the gear case lube issue.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Motor Still Won't Fire After New Ignition Components and Carb Rebuild

no grease on the flywheel taper or the crank taper, its a dry fit. grease or any other substance can/will cause you major problems. just polish the crank and the flywheel taper with emery cloth, clean any particles off both and reinstall.