new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

[boater1234]

well i was doing some outboard shopping today and stumbled on a new brand of outboards today thats made in china,they are hidea outboards.They make them up to 15hp.I have seen them a couple of times on you tube running and they look like fine motors.The guy told me that they are a knockoff of the yamaha.He sells all the major brands of motors including yamaha.It so happens he had a brand new 15hp 4stroke yamaha in his shop also,he put the 2 motors side by side and i have to tell you it was very hard to tell them apart as they were almost identical.The only difference was were the water/fuel seperator was/other then that it was a clone of the yamaha.I know the guy very well at the marina who is selling these hidea motors and they are going to become more popular slowly in our neck of the woods because of there pricing and they are very reliable from what he has heard.

Not to many people know about these motors yet.He has had trouble selling them because people really don't know much about them.They can't be that bad as they are very close to the yamaha.If you go down the specs they are almost the same besides the displacement.But if people do remember the older yamaha 15hp 4strokes were at 323cc's as this motor is.He bought 20 motors and has sold 15 of them in a yr which is not to bad i guess.He also sells all the other brands also.He said all the customers who bought them said they were awesome motors for the money.He has one 15hp short shaft left.The price on it is $1900,he offerd it to me for $1700 out the door and it comes with a 2.5yrs of warranty.

Has anyone owned one of these,also what is anyones thoughts on them if anyone has seen them.It is almost impossible to find a brand new 15hp 4stroke with a warranty for $1700.It may be worth the risk.When i tell you also if you put the yamaha and the hidea side by side you could not tell the difference i mean that.The whole motor,the way it's set up,the gear shifter,it just looks identical.The only bad thing i can think of is customer service as i don't know how many marinas here in the usa sell them yet.But he plans on selling them full time so i have a dealer right down the road from me if anything goes wrong.Ok very anxious to hear what people think about these motors.

 

[JimS123]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

I've been very vocal about buying "Made in USA", so everybody knows I'm a bigoted conservative....LOL. Its just too bad that so many Americans embrace low cost Chinese products just because of the price!

I'm an Engineer and I design and build factories. Two years ago the plant engineer where I was working bought some Chinese pumps. He got them brand new for 25 cents on the dollar. They were exact copies of an American pump that had been designed and built by Americans and used here for many years. It was OUR invention. Side by side you could not tell the difference. Even the paint was an exact color match to fool some people (except it was lead paint). It was for a thick fluid being pumped into a tank.

The Chinese pumps couldn't handle the job - in fact they wouldn't pump water downhill! It had a warranty and they would not honor it.

Why don't you go buy one and report back how you like it?

 

[boater1234]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Man jim you just hate anything unless it's made in the usa i have noticed.Well i got news alot of stuff in the usa is made somewere else or the parts are from other places because the other countries will do it for pennies.I have heard rumors that most cars are going to be put together in other countries so they can eliminate cost[just what i have overheard and read,no one really knows how true that is]I really can't tell you how many brands of outboards are really even put together in the usa,it would be a guess for me.But all that aside this is at a marina i know very well and this guy has a huge reputation to keep as he is one of the biggest marinas around here.They are fairly new here in the usa.It's just like the other brand,parsun,they are from another country also.

From what i just read here is there background as it wouldn't let me paste it here.

"Hidea was approved by the international ISO9001 quality system and won many honors by its excellent performance and steady quality such as CE,EPA,and VCA certificates".

This is on their website as i don't know if it means a whole heck of alot,but it must mean something i would guess.They also sell over 50,000 units a year worldwide.They only make between 2.5 to 15hp models.I really don't know much about them as i want to learn more but i'm just quoting what they have said on their website.

 

[JB]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Watch it, gentlemen. Bashing is forbidden here. If you don't have facts to report please leave your prejudices out of your posts.

 

[Silver Heels]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

I was at Fleet Farm today, and saw another Chinese offbrand motor with a "Coleman" decal on the cover, a 5 hp, and priced at $999. I am not going to lie, it looked pretty nice quality-wise. Probably a replacement for that goofy Briggs motor they used to handle. If I was in the market, I might consider it, although I tend to buy used and for the same price, one could buy a nearly new brand name motor. It is sad that next to nothing seems to be manufactured in the good ol' USA anymore, even that goofy Briggs motor I believe is made in Mexico, as are Dodge trucks, and don't get me started on Craftsman tools. My Honda Goldwing, meanwhile was built in Marysville, Ohio. I wish I could say that I only bought domestic products, but they seem to have been surpassed by imports in many ways. Then when I do find a homegrown product I like, I find out that 60% of it was made in Korea. It may look the same as a Yamaha, but it is the quality of the bearings and other critical parts that count. Parts availability may be a problem, and the resale value will be less than that of a name brand.

I recall talking to the mechanic at the Honda cycle dealer several years ago. The market was flooded with inexpensive, off brand scooters and mopeds that were clones of Yamahas but priced significantly less. He said getting parts was a huge problem, even expendables like batteries. My guess is that many of these scooters are now collecting dust due to a simple, yet expensive problem, while their name brand counterparts keep chugging along.

In conclusion, I guess I have given up on the whole "Buy American!" mentality. But I am not yet ready to buy generic.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

$1700 might be a good price... But,,, what are you going to do in 2, 5, 10 years when you need a part for it? It's a roll of the dice, they might catch on and stick around. They might stop supporting replacement parts after X number of years, they might be a flop and you will be stuck with a "run it until it breaks" outboard. Those are poor odds to me.

Even if they look exactly like a Yamaha on the outside, I really doubt they are a Yamaha on the inside. So running down the Yamaha dealer looking for a Hidea part would probably be useless. I've had a couple copy-cat Chinese products and they "looked" like the real thing on the outside, but when you popped them apart, you could tell the difference.

I'd gamble for $5, $10, maybe even $100

$2000... not me

 

[JimS123]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

When Yamaha entered the US outboard market they basically copied OMC motors and it was done (legally) after many OMC patents had expired. At the time, a comparison of a Yami vs. an Evinrude clearly showed that when they copied it they did it right. Certainly, their products have stood the test of time.

When you go out and buy a product with an American name on it (e.g., Chevy Equinox, GE or Intermatic electrical switch), you might find that the engine or the entire switch was made in Mexico or China. That's a business decision by GM or GE and it apparently doesn't bother a lot of people because they continue to buy the products. I can see the wisdom of the decision - $20 an hour for an American worker vs. $6 a day for a Chinese. But, what sets that apart from the Yamaha story is that the Chinese plants were designed and built by Americans, the workers were tought how to do their jobs by Americans and the American company is ultimately responsible for the quality.

Some say that Chinese quality / technology is at the level that Japanese quality was 40 years ago. Taking something apart and copying it isn't as easy as it sounds. (see my comment above about the pump that I had first hand knowledge of). Last year I read a report on a Chinese knock-off PWC that was a direct copy of a SeaDoo. One was obtained by a Boating Magazine and tested, because they anticipated that the Chinese might try to make inroads into the US market. The report wasn't too pretty!

ISO was the buzzword of the '90's. Today, in some industries its a necessity to be certified because the customers require it (and all your competitors went that way before you....LOL). After having studied the system, and personally directing efforts to certify my company, I can say that it ain't all its cracked up to be. I know of ISO certified companies that manufacture a world class product, and others that make junk. Since its largely "self enforced" some companies clean the place up and dust off the procedure manuals a week before they get inspected, while asleep at the switch the rest of the year.

 

[boater1234]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

The whole thing is the motor is a clone of the yamaha 15hp motor.He can take almost all the parts of the yamaha and interchange them.He did all his homework before he ordered all these motors belive that.He said basically what they did whether it's right or wrong is clone the yamaha.I asked him the same question about that.Were am i going to get parts for it.His response was at any yamaha dealer after the warranty expires.It has a 2.5yr warranty on it.

If you ever looked at a parsun motor they are identical also.I think all these motors are clones of the yamaha.He said he has actually looked at the diagrams of the 2 motors,yamaha,and hidea and almost all the parts were identical except were the small built in water/fuel seperator are.Other then that you can go to any yamaha dealer and get what you need.He took both motors and put them side by side and i'm telling you the honest truth you could never tell which was which if you made the paint the same color.They are built extremely well from what the eye can see.They don't look generic by any means.But like i said thats just from looking at them.His son has the 4hp motor he has been using for 2yrs and it has been perfect with no flaws.He has been wanting to order from these people for a couple of yrs now so he wanted to test a product out for a couple of yrs to see how they hold up.

If there is one thing i know about this guy he does his homework and is not in the business to loose money.We all know boat motors are way over priced no matter what brand they are,so he is trying to make a product that is cheaper for him to buy and sell available to the public.Nothing wrong with that.He has sold close to 15 of these outboards and is the only dealer that is close around here.He has not had one come back yet for any problems and has had great feedback from the outboards.The thing that is very cool about were he is ordering from,they only specialize in small outboards up to 15hp so that gives them time to improve a few motors instead of like 20 or 30 different outboards.I don't know how people feel about foreign products but i do know most of the cars are built pretty well.Who knows maybe this is the wave of the future.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

I personally would take a chance. Molds, dies, forms, tooling etc, could actually be from YAMAHA. Good chance a YAMAHA uses the same parts made in CHINA and get a royality on the chinese built motors. Is something I would have no reason to follow but think some MERCS are from a factory in CHINA. FRED

 

[pine island fred]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Was curious so I just did a search. One site says 40-50- 60 MERCS are assembled in SUZHOU CHINA. Production started in 2005. Could not find a date on the article. Perhaps others are now made there also. FRED

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

I really got fed up with the big 3 auto manufacturers and went to Honda about 6 Years ago for our mini van and my car. I got sick and tired of rebuilding transmissions and other annoying parts that seem to break at a very high rate of failure. I have heard that they have really stepped it up over the last few years..maybe they did. I have had similar experiences with boat motors also..the Yamahas/Hondas just seem to do better. This is just my opinion.. I do drive a F-250 crew cab power stroke diesel...but that is only because Honda does not make anything to compete with it. I love America but in some things it just seems they cannot compete well..maybe its the Unions..maybe its the CEOs..blame who you will but toyota and Honda seem to have whipped them in the car and light truck market. Go to any 3rd world country..you will see toyota trucks and honda/toyota cars..rarely will you see a Chevy or Ford unless it is a 3/4 or bigger. O yea I do have a 1967 Pontiac GTO, now thats when they made real cars.

 

[Outsider]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Production started in 2005.

Well, that certainly explains why there are so many 'black anchors'. I'll wait to see what Consumer Reports has to say before blowing the piggy on chop-suey ...

 

[jbjennings]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

I have heard of many Chinese "clones" and although I haven't tested their outboards, I've had some experience with several other examples of their machinery. It has without exception been total junk. The japanese make good equipment. The Chinese don't. I don't know why, but their welds don't hold, their engines don't hold up, their tie rods and such have slop in them BRAND NEW. The parts support on CHinese stuff is absolutely horrible, as is getting them to honor their warranties. The U.S. distributors even have a habit of changing the name on the stuff to try and get away from the reputation of it. The Chinese stuff LOOKS good from a distance, but a knowledgeable close inspection will start revealing poor machining, substandard metal, etc, etc.. IF one doubts this, they should simply find some product brand name made in China like UTV's, ATV's, and such and do a quick google search about problems with the brand name. IT will be quite obvious what they're selling. The metal they build stuff out of is almost unbelievably low in quality.
Maybe these Hideous outboards are great, but I wouldn't bet on it. $2000 ain't exactly cheap, either.

Notice some of the mercs are ASSEMBLED in CHina. Big difference in made in china and assembled in china.

Heck, my girlfriend drove a Yugo in college and it was a reliable vehicle. I've gotten good stuff from almost everywhere but never from China. It's not bias, it's just experience.
JMO,
JBJ

 

[jrs_diesel]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Was curious so I just did a search. One site says 40-50- 60 MERCS are assembled in SUZHOU CHINA. Production started in 2005. Could not find a date on the article. Perhaps others are now made there also. FRED

Tohatsu makes all Mercury engines 30 HP and below for the U.S. market (and Nissans as well). Tohatsu is based in Japan, not sure where the parts are made.

 

[boater1234]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Well i guess we will have to see what happens.Like i said in the last yr he has sold 15 of them with no problems,maybe the china men got these right.You never know.The people in china are smarter then you give them credit for.Were do you think all the fireworks in the world come from,china.They are all made from hand to.There is billions of fireworks a yr purchased in the u.s without something going wrong with the pieces.The reason most bad things about fireworks are on tv is because you have some idiots that get drunk and do something stupid to themselves,or you have some parents who just give their kids stuff to blow up and they get hurt.

So not everything they make is junk.That i can say for sure as i'm a pyro junkie and have never had any problems in over 20yrs of buying the hard core stuff.I'm sure these motors will plain out nicely.The parsuns have become very popular here in the u.s and they seem to be identical also to the yamaha.Only time will tell.I'm sure there is a lot of junk that they make.I'm not saying i will buy one now but i'm entertaining it.There isn't to many places you can find a brand new 15hp 4stroke outboard for the price of $1700 with a 30 month warranty.Who knows i may be able to talk him down a little more.They have been producing them for yrs and sending them to many countries with little to no problems so i have read in a few articles.Well the vertict is out on them so we will see what happens over time.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

There is billions of fireworks a yr purchased in the u.s without something going wrong with the pieces.

LOL,,, That's a weird comparison. Their fireworks are good, so their outboards must be good too...

I sure hope their outboards don't BLOW UP like the fireworks

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Wherever whatever is manufactured it is only as good as,

1. The materials it is made from.
2. The tolerances it was built to.
3. The inspection of each stage of assembly.
4. The care and maintenance of whatever it is by the purchaser.

Matters not where the particular item is manufactured.
My 2 cents

 

[RRitt]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

My luck with Chinese stuff has been poor. It simply does not last as long. I think it is a combination of materials, experience, and machine tolerance. Many times all I want is disposable or one time use and Chinese stuff is great. Every once in a while it will surprise me and last for more than a year but mostly there has been some oversight or subpar material that causes the whole thing to break within a few months or year. However, my luck with stuff from Hong Kong has been very good. I'm not sure if Hong Kong stuff is now considered Chinese or not.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Tohatsu makes all Mercury engines 30 HP and below for the U.S. market (and Nissans as well). Tohatsu is based in Japan, not sure where the parts are made.

Japan

 

[jrs_diesel]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Thanks for clarifying TG