new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

[boater1234]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

I don't understand what you said by i need to get this out of my system[i'm lost on that one]I never said i wanted to buy an off brand outboard.What i wanted to know is what people thought of this particular brand of motors made in china.I wanted to know if it was worth the risk.By what everyone is saying here it's not as they say most of the stuff china makes is hit and miss.To me that is not worth taking the risk when for a few hundred more i can get a known brand.

Also what i meant about rare is on craigslist.I have seen very few outboard motors in the box for sale by a owner so that does make it rare to find.People may have some motors in their house like you say but that is not on craigslist for sale.Trust me i go on craigslist every day all day and there is never any brand new outboards for sale unless a marina is advertising them.This is the first outboard i have ever found in 3yrs of looking on craigslist in this hp range that someone owned and never started it,now i have seen ads were people say they were never started and i have checked them out as they don't realize you can smell gas no matter what from an outboard and they try to sell it as never started,that is as dishonest as it gets.Now this motor has never had a drop of gas in it as i have checked it out and not a drop.There was not even any oil in the motor as i opened the oil plug and notta.The carb is gas free,so was the filter.

I would like to try the 4stroke merc but that kills it's value and makes it used.Also i can't rent any store as i'm broke as a joke.I'm trying to do this with very limited money.I can't ever get ahead because something always happens when i make a few bucks,car or truck breaks down or right now this is how i pay my bills as me and my wife are on unemployment,they pay squat,notta.I'm trying to get some help with money as if i can all i would need is a small amount and i could blast this thing off as there is tons of money to be made in this business,i have done the math and it makes me sick how much i could make with very little to work with.But that is the way life is and i will one day have it going as i'm on a 5yr plan to build this business from nothing.It gets very frustrating but i can't quit as i want my family to never hurt for anything in the future especially my little girl.I grew up poor and it sucks trust that.By the grace of God i will make it happen one day.


Also almost all my motors i find from owners,i do alot of traveling to find them that most people don't want to do.Like i said one day it will happen.

 

[boater1234]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Hey jim one of the biggest reasons i would not want this merc is the way the tilt is set up.They redesigned the tilt on these to a auto ratcheting system.It is a night and day difference between the merc i have now and the new design.The one i have was made at the end of 08 so it says on the motor.They must have redesigned the tilt soon after.The merc i have has the pin you have to move up and down plus it only goes in 3 positions as the new merc/tohatsus/nissans 9.9 15 and 20 have a 6 way auto ratcheting system that makes it so much easier and way more user friendly.This one is a little heavier then the new ones at 120lbs compared to 114lbs,so not to much.But not having that ratcheting system is a deal breaker for me.

I don't care how strong someone is it is still a pain to have to stop everytime and move the pin up and down instead of using a pinless system,i personally think that is the most intelligent thing i have ever seen on a outboard that is very heavy to lift.This system will save someones back just because you constantly don't have to bend over and move a pin.It is awesome as all you do is lift it to were you want and it automatically locks into place.To get the tilt to go all the way down to the run position you have to lift the motor all the up and then it will release to drop into the water.

Another feature i really like on the mercs is the front tensioner to kep the motor from going side to side to fast.I think the merc/tohatsu/nissan line of smaller outboards up to 20hp imo is so user friendly because of all the features.The oil filter is a breeze to change,the oil is easy to change,lower unit oil is easy,great tilt system,front tensioner is great,reliability of the motors is second to none,good warranty.what is there not to like about these motors.

I just changed the oil in a newer 2009 9.8 4stroke nissan and the lower unit oil i just picked up off craigslist,the motor has not been ran in 3mths and started in one pull,man that thing purs like a kitten.Everytime i start one of these 4strokes up it makes me want one more and more on my boat,i just can't get past the 72lbs my little 15hp 2stroke weighs.Plus it is as new as you can get without just pulling it out of the box.I'm going to run the 9.8 this week coming up and see how good this 4stroke performs with me,wife and the kid in my new 14ft alumacraft.This motor has a 2.08 gear ratio,weighs in at 81lbs,the boat weighs in at 230lbs plus me,wife and kid,it's a good load we will say,Lol.We will see if it has the power needed to get up and if it does then a 15 or 20hp tohatsu or merc will be a powerhouse compared to the 9.8.


When i'm done testing it this week i will tell everyone how it did as there is quite a few curious people here who would like to know how the 4stroke performs compared to a 2stroke,well i will have all your anwers here soon.Please just be patient as it is hard for me to go out all the time,also i am still waiting for someone to tell me what is the best hand help gps to use for a boat on the water.I just want to get the best gps for on the water for the most reasonable price,i'm on limited funds.If i can get a decent gps i will test all the motors i buy and sell and post what kind of performance they get and all the data you guys want.

 

[DJ]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

THe only thing made in the USA today are: Made in China labels.

I guess you could call that-trade?

 

[DJ]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Why don't you look here at iboat's sponsored outboard sales?

That's how iboats got started.

They offer great deals on well kept used and new outboards.

Look at the top of the page under "boat motors".

 

[199675hpforce]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

New is not better in marine world. Give me a noisy thirsty 2stroke thats fun to romp. 4 stroke might bore the crap outa me.

 

[ljc1957]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Interesting thread. Recently, I was looking for a 250cc sized Enduro motorcycle and I learned about Chinese bikes shipped to your door for $1300.00! After doing a lot of research on different motorcycle forums, I learned that the Chinese were taking Known bikes, I believe Suzuki, and stripping them. They would then copy the bikes/parts then manufacture their own machines. Basicly, they would steal the copyright/technology then sell them under their name. A lot of the parts were interchangable with Suzuki engines. I would bet they are doing the same thing with these outboards. Reports on the quality of these bikes varied. Some swore by their value but they cautioned that many auxillary items failed. They cautioned that if you were a decent mechanic, you could make these bikes work reasonably well. Obtaining parts was also an issue with some of these bikes. Others claimed they were total junk. Again, I'll bet the Chinese are doing the same thing with these outboards. If it were me, I'd rather get a used outboard with a proven track record. I ended up buying a 1975 Honda XL 250 for $900 and I couldn't be happier.

 

[Major Ramifications]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Yes, taking things apart any copying the components is called reverse engineering. As a designer, I was once tasked with reverse engineering a "silencer" (muffler) to go on a large diesel engine for an offshore generator set. We usually bought the silencers, but the suppliers lead time was long and our guys in the fab shop were slow, so they cut up an old one and had me measure each part and draw plans for us to make one.
I enjoy designing things from scratch, but this copying made me uncomfortable. I had no experience designing silencers, never saw any test data from different designs, and could only guess as to why each different component was made the way it was. Our material and capabilities were slightly different than the original we were copying, so some changes were made. I drew up and we made a silencer which functioned adequately.

My point is, there's a lot more to a product than the dimensions of its parts. Anyone with silencer design experience could have made better decisions than I about what changes would be beneficial, which ones would make no difference, and which ones would be detrimental. All I could do was guess.
I would rather buy a product that was made by people who understood what they were doing and why.

Bear in mind, this was a simple welded steel assembly, not a complex casting. An awful lot goes into the process of casting and molding that you cannot measure by reverse engineering.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

I did not read every post in this thread but there seems to be one theme and that is the "copying or reverse engineering" issue that China is not the lone wolf in that process. Japan did it years ago as well and there have been others. What is being overlooked with manufacturing in China or any other country is that when an American firm has something built in China they don't just say send me engines. The manufacturer provides engineering drawings and specs that allow the product to be built to that spec. There are no shortcuts in that regard. This is a very different process than China deciding to actually copy a product. That is where the shortcuts can occur. An engine block may be cast from inferior metals for example. Camshafts may undergo a far less stringent hardening process. Even though the parts are physically identical and may even interchange, the cloned part may or may not be as durable. When a manufacturers "specifies" how something is to be built the design documents and test procedures must be followed and the quality control process is in play. Cloning does not play by those rules.

 

[archcityBob]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

+1 Silvertip. I worked for a Big Jiant Corporation. One of our regular vendors sold us a bunch of Chinese valves that turned out to be garbage. After multiple failures our engineers determined that the valves did not meet the required specs and the data sheets for them we just plain lies. Vendor offered to replace them for free with a different brand, even eating the cost difference. We refused and pointed out that the cost of the valves was a small part of the job cost. It's the labor cost to replace them and scheduling the Utility Shutdowns that is expensive.

After about 3 years of Vendor not getting a single product order from us they offered us a $50,000 credit on account in order to get our business back. We accepted.

 

[edfishing2]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Favorite bumper sticker "IF EVERYONE BUYS IMPORTS WHERE WILL OUR KIDS WORK?" 300k on my F150.

 

[connemaraisland]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Well guys I am a distributor for Hidea outboards for half of Ontario (Canada) and this is my second year doing this. I have more years than I care to remember being in the boating business, had my own Yamaha dealership for 10 years and have been selling Yamaha outboards and G3 boats for the last 9 years. I also pride myself in the knowledge and repair of all types of engines.

There is no doubt about it in my mind that in todays real world the Japanese make THE BEST ENGINES in the world - at least for the one's you and I can afford. Germans/Italians make great supercar engines but only a handfull of real people can afford them. Why is this?? It is because the Japanese have a unique society that takes the long range view of the business and of technology. They bring forward the technology (like oil injected 2 strokes that Yamaha started in the 1960's) and apply it even if it costs them money because in the end they know they will have a superior product for the future and this will help them in the building of the business.
In North America especially in the US, they take the very short term view - to squeeze the last cent out of the product so the CEO will look good for the next Quarter review.

The Japanese have modern up to date and efficient manufacturing facilities and they make outboards in Japan, not in China. If they do manufacture in China, they don't just farm it out to a Chinese middleman - they set up their own factory there to take advantage of the cheaper labor, but they control the quality of the product because they use the same processes, materials, expertise and managers as they do in Japan. Where I work we are a Yamaha and Mercury dealer. For evey Merc we sell, we sell 25 Yamaha's. Why?? Mercury's below about a 60 hp are not Mercury's - they are Tohatsu's made in China. Before that most Mercury 4 strokes had Yamaha powerheads. They even screwed the Yamaha's up by installing their own cheap electrical parts sourced from ???? and like allmost all Mercury's still have all kinds of electrical/ignition problems.

The Hidea's that I have sold have been solid performers and I have only had one issue with a 9.9 4 stroke that had a sticking (closed) needle valve. I ordered a new carb from the factory and had it in 4 days. Why after all these years being a Yamaha brand loyal person would I distribute a Chinese brand - Price!!!!

As stated I believe Yamaha outboards are the best - they are now by far the largest and they didn't get there by being second rate - but - $3,400 for a 15hp 2 stroke outboard (Hidea is $1995) they have out priced themselves and have lost track where the market is going.
Another example - here in Canada I can sell you a 2011 brand new Larson 18ft boat with a V-6 inboard, the trailer, full of gas and boating equipment for $23,995. Now if I want to buy a new 225hp Yamaha outboard (no boat, no trailer, no prop or controls, gas or equipment) $22,495. Now where is the sanity of this - the big 350 hp V-8 outboard is like $33,000 - I mean can you imagine this (the price of a bare outboard being the same as a brand new pick-up truck!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Hidea will not be challenging Yamaha in 150-300hp outboards but they are starting small, doing it right and very quickly will take away the small outboard market from Yamaha and others. Take a really close look at the new just released Yamaha 4 and 6 hp 4 strokes - many of the parts of the Yamaha are IDENTICAL to the Hidea especially from the base of the motor down Yamaha $2,195/Hidea $1,195.

I have been using a 15hp Hidea 2 stroke for 2 years with NO ISSUES WHAT-SO-EVER and I live on an island and travel 10kms every day or more.

Don't be too quick to judge. - Bob

My wife and I try and but American whenever we can, it is getting harder everday. Across the street from my office, there was an apple orchard for over 50 years. The guy sold it to a developer because the Chinese imported apples where selling for less than he could harvest and get his to market for, he could not make any money.

I recently watched a show where a guy in California is converting cars to electric vehicles, (he used Toyota's). When asked about who will be supplying the Lithium Ion batteries, he stated they will be Chinese made because the Chinese (Govt) committed to building a plant to be production ready within 6 months time. He stated the earliest time frame in the US was 3 years due to regulations. He also stated the Chinese put all the $ into the plant up front, where US prospects were asking him to invest $ in the plant.

There are few examples of good long term quality products coming from China, IMHO. The US products that are successful when manufacturing in China spend a huge amount of time and money on QC. I have know 3 people that have been operations managers over there. They spent 2-3 years getting up and running and maintaining it. Right after they left, the product quality decreased. I know two of those plants have been pulled back to the US because the poor quality cost the company more in the long run.

I do hope the pendulum will swing back towards the US producing more products, and people demanding to buy US products, because if it doesn't, we at some point will become fully dependent on foriegn products. When that happens our country will stay in a contant state of recession / depression. Then we will never pay back the trillions of $ the Chinese have loaned us.

 

[nwcove]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

how did a post discussing a new brand of outboard get so far off course that its now discussing certain cultures and the animals they may or may not eat.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: new brand of outboards i found today in my marina

Well guys I am a distributor for Hidea outboards for half of Ontario (Canada) and this is my second year doing this. I have more years than I care to remember being in the boating business, had my own Yamaha dealership for 10 years and have been selling Yamaha outboards and G3 boats for the last 9 years. I also pride myself in the knowledge and repair of all types of engines.

There is no doubt about it in my mind that in todays real world the Japanese make THE BEST ENGINES in the world - at least for the one's you and I can afford. Germans/Italians make great supercar engines but only a handfull of real people can afford them. Why is this?? It is because the Japanese have a unique society that takes the long range view of the business and of technology. They bring forward the technology (like oil injected 2 strokes that Yamaha started in the 1960's) and apply it even if it costs them money because in the end they know they will have a superior product for the future and this will help them in the building of the business.
In North America especially in the US, they take the very short term view - to squeeze the last cent out of the product so the CEO will look good for the next Quarter review.

The Japanese have modern up to date and efficient manufacturing facilities and they make outboards in Japan, not in China. If they do manufacture in China, they don't just farm it out to a Chinese middleman - they set up their own factory there to take advantage of the cheaper labor, but they control the quality of the product because they use the same processes, materials, expertise and managers as they do in Japan. Where I work we are a Yamaha and Mercury dealer. For evey Merc we sell, we sell 25 Yamaha's. Why?? Mercury's below about a 60 hp are not Mercury's - they are Tohatsu's made in China. Before that most Mercury 4 strokes had Yamaha powerheads. They even screwed the Yamaha's up by installing their own cheap electrical parts sourced from ???? and like allmost all Mercury's still have all kinds of electrical/ignition problems.

The Hidea's that I have sold have been solid performers and I have only had one issue with a 9.9 4 stroke that had a sticking (closed) needle valve. I ordered a new carb from the factory and had it in 4 days. Why after all these years being a Yamaha brand loyal person would I distribute a Chinese brand - Price!!!!

As stated I believe Yamaha outboards are the best - they are now by far the largest and they didn't get there by being second rate - but - $3,400 for a 15hp 2 stroke outboard (Hidea is $1995) they have out priced themselves and have lost track where the market is going.
Another example - here in Canada I can sell you a 2011 brand new Larson 18ft boat with a V-6 inboard, the trailer, full of gas and boating equipment for $23,995. Now if I want to buy a new 225hp Yamaha outboard (no boat, no trailer, no prop or controls, gas or equipment) $22,495. Now where is the sanity of this - the big 350 hp V-8 outboard is like $33,000 - I mean can you imagine this (the price of a bare outboard being the same as a brand new pick-up truck!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Hidea will not be challenging Yamaha in 150-300hp outboards but they are starting small, doing it right and very quickly will take away the small outboard market from Yamaha and others. Take a really close look at the new just released Yamaha 4 and 6 hp 4 strokes - many of the parts of the Yamaha are IDENTICAL to the Hidea especially from the base of the motor down Yamaha $2,195/Hidea $1,195.

I have been using a 15hp Hidea 2 stroke for 2 years with NO ISSUES WHAT-SO-EVER and I live on an island and travel 10kms every day or more.

Don't be too quick to judge. - Bob

Hey Mod's,

Am I allowed to say why the above post is factually incorrect?