New crackdown on U.S. border

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Good link 12.

Agree.

It would be nice if the laws were enforced throughout the nation.

Nice, but not likely, especially here, (n' prolly the two other Left Coast states as well).

The illegal fellows from Georgia can come to the Liberal armpit of the Country over here, (Politically speaking, in terms of natural beauty: this is God's Country), get a brand new officially issued drivers' license, a voter card, (motor voter here BTW), n' then get any other official documents forged real cheap, (that's big business here), the kind of big business Libs luv.

Then the Feds bust down the poor Seattle Area businessman's doors n' haul 'em ta jail. Not much of a corncern from the Libs here: THEY HATE ALL BUSINESS OWNERS HERE in the Seattle area, they only care about the growth in Government n' of course dim wit Democrat votin' Government workers here.

I wonder if the State, City n' County has illegal employees working here? BTW the largest growth in employment here in the NW is GOVERNMENT workers, SHOCKING I know!! They must have 'em if ya think just a bit about that. How could any person tell with any potential employee havin' a full set of docs, n' if they signed the sworn statement I require, (I think it is a Federal form), how could the State not hire 'em? All government employees n' law enforcement can't ask immigration status by law: here in this Liberal armpit!!!

It looks like states are tired of the hee hawing from the feds and doing what needs to be done.

It can work in places like Georgia, (a lot of places in the South are reasonable about law enforcement). That said: fer every Georgia there is prolly a Washington where things are always upside down. Any place dominated by Liberals is a likely a problem. Sorry fer the rant, (I don't wanna pick any fights with you or anyone else: Eric), This is just a very irritating n' frustrating problem with the DIM WITS WHO LIVE n' VOTE HERE in this totally screwed up state. Respectfully, JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Looks like somebody got tired of waiting for Congress to pass immigration reform that fits the real world, so they finally decided to enforce the present law. That is good, and about time, but. . .

It is a double edged blade. Agriculture, construction and other industries that presently employ millions of illegals are gonna take a big hit and guess who is going to pay? Are you gonna be happy to pay $2.50 for a head of lettuce, $10K for a new roof? How about $8K a month for extended care for nursing home patients?

If this energetic enforcement had been in place for the last 20 years (that's 13 years before GWB took office) there wouldn't be a problem. Now we have a big one.

Congress needs to get off their collective butt, forget negative politics for a while and pass immigration reform.

Agree, JB I don't always agree with you as sometimes yer a little PC fer me, but I totally agree with you here. This is just window dressing as Pointer states. We need to severly punnish sanctuary places like the one I live in. An Executive with poor poll numbers n' all the knives President Bush now faces can't possibly do anything but make an appearance of effort. Respectfully, JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Employers that hire illegals under the table for less than minimum wage are falsifying records and not paying their fair share of taxes.

How do you know this Rick? Why would they not just pay the minumum wage and comply with the requirements to CYA as I do when I hire someone?

That puts the burden on us. These people that are hiring people for less than minimum wage, doctoring their books and not paying the required taxes are no better than Al Capone and belong in a federal penitentiary.

If that is true, please provide a cite so I can learn the facts here. Respectfully, JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

JB, do you realy believe buisnesses are passing-on the bennies from their ill-gotten gains on to the consumer? And as for extended care, I'm of the opinion that the costs (just as in the rest of the medical umbrella) will decrease because we wont have to pay for millions of uninsured illegals that will never pay the med bills they aquired while in America. Maybe they'll go home, and either stay, or come back thru the admittedly-laborious legal meathods.

interesting theory 12er

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Just pointing out the downside, guys. If you think this is going to be a net gain for the taxpayer you need to look at it more closely. It may well not be.

The notion that all illegals are a drain on the economy is pure fantasy. Sure, some of them are, but are they a majority? The notion that all illegals are hired at below minimums and pay no taxes is also pure fantasy. There are some, but how many compared to the productive, tax paying ones? The big majority of the ones I know are paid a decent wage, use no welfare benefits and pay taxes. Yes, I want them arrested and deported unless those liberal jerks in Congress get their heads out of their butts and deal with reality.

My question is, are you willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater? If you think there is no baby you are kidding yourselves.

One of the things that sometimes makes me embarrassed to be conservative is the conservative compulsion to slap labels on people and paint them all with the brush that fits only the worst of them.

I again agree with you JB, and I may be one of those who label from time to time that embarrasses ya, (hope not, as I admire you); but you can bet yer bottom dollar I can usually back up what I post here on iboats. Recpectfully, JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Also, if we had not been killing, how many millions of babies, over the last 20 years, maybe we would have a sufficient home grown workforce. We might be having to pay more for some things but at least we would not have to press one for spanish and fight off an evergrowing movement to return the southwest to Mejico.

Very good point: Boom!!! JR

 

[POINTER94]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

It isn't employers responsiblity to do the job of the Federal government. THEY ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE. If the federal government was doing one of the few things mandated of it, protect our boarders, how could a business hire anyone but a legal citizen or visitor?

This is classic pass the buck. Blame the boss BS. Hey they are rich anyways! Always nice to see a couple perp walked on the evening news. Class envy, and political prosecution. Nice recipe for communism. The only exception to this would be if the employer was actually smuggling the workers in. Then I have a completely different take on the matter.

Please, can some liberal point to me the reason I would want to be a citizen of the USA vs. an illegal alien?

 

[tommays]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

The best example is the grocery stores in my area

Lets take Pathmark

It is a union store that seems to make MONEY and be able to employ legal people from the local population


Lets take Meat Farms

One of many smaller chains that compeats with Pathmark

It is readily apparent as soon as you shop here buy the amount of NON-ENGLISH speaking workers what is going on


The end result is there is no real difference to me in my food costs BUT i know that Pathmark is providing better paying jobs in my area


As far as the cost of the roof i will take the hit every 25 years

And it will hurt me as the factory were i work English is the second language, but being so close to it i see so much of the dark underbelly everyday

Tommays

 

[POINTER94]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Put a roof on my house 3 months ago. Hired an all American Crew. Don't ask me how I know, lets just say they all spoke english, and had to wear sunscreen. 4 young men starting out in the business. $3200 for a 2200 sq ft. home. Competition, it works.

 

[ricksrster]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Just pointing out the downside, guys. If you think this is going to be a net gain for the taxpayer you need to look at it more closely. It may well not be.

The notion that all illegals are a drain on the economy is pure fantasy. Sure, some of them are, but are they a majority? The notion that all illegals are hired at below minimums and pay no taxes is also pure fantasy. There are some, but how many compared to the productive, tax paying ones? The big majority of the ones I know are paid a decent wage, use no welfare benefits and pay taxes. Yes, I want them arrested and deported unless those liberal jerks in Congress get their heads out of their butts and deal with reality.

My question is, are you willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater? If you think there is no baby you are kidding yourselves.

One of the things that sometimes makes me embarrassed to be conservative is the conservative compulsion to slap labels on people and paint them all with the brush that fits only the worst of them.

How do you pay taxes without a GENUINE Social Security Card?

 

[i386]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Three cheers for Georgia!!Click here to find out why.

That's good news.

 

[JB]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

"How do you pay taxes without a GENUINE Social Security Card?"

You buy. . . anything. Sales tax, gas tax, tobacco tax, liquor tax, etc. etc.

If you make less than about $30K you probably don't pay any income tax whether you have the SS card or not.

 

[tommays]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Well what you really buy is an SS card and a name that is close enough


Then employers make copy's of the required ID to work legally and turn them into a service like ADP who's job it is to see if there good

That is were the problem starts in the age of information the government lacks the ability to put the names and numbers together or if there being used in two places at the same time


It should set off a red light and does not at this time


Tommays

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

The treasury dept is currently holding hundreds of millions of dollars in collected revenue from illegal immigrants who provided eronous social security cards to their employers.
Many do and many don't pay into the flawed system.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Put a roof on my house 3 months ago. Hired an all American Crew. Don't ask me how I know, lets just say they all spoke english, and had to wear sunscreen. 4 young men starting out in the business. $3200 for a 2200 sq ft. home. Competition, it works.

Thats funny, my parents back in the UK recently had their roof rebuilt, i am told that all of the workers spoke excellent english, but with a Polish accent.

 

[PW2]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Nobody, but nobody wants to solve this problem. They all seem to want to make noise, and score political points, but they don't want to solve it, as really solving it would have dire consequences.


There are 10 million (or however many) illegals here because there are jobs for them to do. There is no way to hold employers accountable now for giving them jobs, since a SS card, or any other form of ID is available on the street for cheap.

We must have a non-tamperable, easily verified system of checking a person's status. Can you imagine a bank with an ATM card being confused whether the holder had a real account or not?

The reason nobody wants to solve it is while we don't like the idea there are so many illegals here, yet most people understand the economy would be crippled if we actually did something about it.

This is probably the one area I tend to agree with the Pres in principle at least. We need a sane immigration policy and somehow to create a path for those already here to legalize them--That is not politically popular, of course, but the alternative is economically devastating, and no one really wants that, despite how they posture.

 

[12Footer]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Just pointing out the downside, guys. If you think this is going to be a net gain for the taxpayer you need to look at it more closely. It may well not be.

I agree, but;

My question is, are you willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater? If you think there is no baby you are kidding yourselves.

Yes, i am. As some here have noted for one reason or another; We are a nation of immigrants. The problem is the drain on socialist programs we have set in place to aid the needy amoung others (like homeland security). No problem with using such socialist services that we provide to our citizens, but i rail at the security blanket's MIS-use/ ab-use.

One of the things that sometimes makes me embarrassed to be conservative is the conservative compulsion to slap labels on people and paint them all with the brush that fits only the worst of them.

Conservatism often embarasses me, when the left takes it out of context (IE, starving our grandparents and forcing them to eat dog food,ect).
We both know that is total BS, but the left have sucessfully poisoned the minds of many in the AARP generation to believe we do force them on an Alpo diet!
Conservatives expect and demand personal freedom and self-reliance. If it were left to us conservatives, we would deport them all today, and pick our buisnesses up by the boot straps and start all over again , from scratch if need be!
Conservatives expect and demand ACCOUNTABILTY from all those in our country. We do not desire, or appreciate a population of MILLIONS here invisably, whether they are alqueda, or just looking for a job to feed their family. There are legal channels that they have chosen to avoid... Too hard... Too "expensive"!

To this conservative, this whole pourous borders carp is unacceptable in it's entirety!
One of my daughters has married an illegal. He has who kids from another marriage.
I do not take this issue, or my ideaology lightly. I have learned to love the guy and those prescious kids (they're adorable, smart, obiedient) -- They are, indeed, as much "my grandbuddies" as the rest of my children's children. But he needs to go home, come back thru the door as opposed to the ditch... Just like my great grandparents did.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Obviously an extremely sore spot.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

JB, you know I repect your views and knowledge. However you said there is not a drain due to the illegals? Health care comes to my mind. Hospitals being shut down due to lack of payment for services rendered is a drain on every tax paying citizen and those making payments for health care. Ten years ago my health care was paid 100% by my employer. 5 years ago I was told that I had to pay a portion of the care. That portion equaled to one full week of my pay! I had no choice but to drop it. We picked our health care up through my wifes job. The monthly payments through her job is less than half of what I would have had to pay. I asked the lady in the office what insurance would cost me if I got back into the system,,,,,,,I was shocked to find out that for my health care would have been $750 per month out of my own pocket while they were paying the other half. That payment would be more than my house payment.

My wife works in the ER here in Ohio. She sees several families of illegals coming in for treatment every day. Very few people at the hospital don't speak spanish and it makes it real hard for the providers to give proper treatment. Almost all don't have the means to pay for their services. This means we all get to pay their bill.

You don't see many illegals during the day because the employers work them at night. Our local sheriffs department just had a roof put on. It was done at night so the local tax payers would not see them. That was word directly from a county employee.

I grew up in southern Ohio where lots of produce is raised. Mostly kids from 8 years old and up worked. Now the kids stay at home playing video games getting fat while their work has been replaced by our illegals.

Even if the border is closed and the compaines can't get the cheap labor they want, they will just move their factory to Mexico. I've heard that Americas favorite choclate plant is moving too,,,,,,,Mexico. Thanks Hershey

Another drain that I can think of is the incarcerated illegals for their crimes. Who is paying for their stay?

I feel like being slapped in the face since I have to conform to our laws while others don't give a flying crap about the laws. Just come on in and take what you want, do what you want to do, because its okay as long as you don't get caught. Keyword here is CAUGHT! ooops that means more tax money being spent to deport, incarcerate, and suck our tax dollars some more.

 

[JB]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

". . . you said there is not a drain due to the illegals?"

No, that is not what I said. What I said was,

"The notion that all illegals are a drain on the economy is pure fantasy. Sure, some of them are, but are they a majority? The notion that all illegals are hired at below minimums and pay no taxes is also pure fantasy. There are some, but how many compared to the productive, tax paying ones? The big majority of the ones I know are paid a decent wage, use no welfare benefits and pay taxes. Yes, I want them arrested and deported unless those liberal jerks in Congress get their heads out of their butts and deal with reality."

There you go with the "one negative brush fits all" thing again.