No Love for the Merc 470

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

[would be a AWSOME little mill for a old Pinto or something though!!!]

Quit putting cool ideas like that in my head!

A 70 Maverick Grabber with a turbo'd 470 would sure be a conversation starter at a Ford show....

 

[s1120]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

Quit putting cool ideas like that in my head!

A 70 Maverick Grabber with a turbo'd 470 would sure be a conversation starter at a Ford show....

Years ago, I read in a mag about a guy that put one in a old Datson. Had to be a beast!!


I have a set of early 429 heads I was thinking of swapping. But the early small chamber heads would push the CR WAYYYY up, and toast the head gasket faster.

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

Glad I got a Chebby motor, parts everywhere and reasonably priced.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

Very interesting thread. Good points pro and con, and most here know my opinion of the infamous 170. And for the purpose of my post i will refer to the 3.7, 170 or whatever it was called over time as the 170.

The 170 4 cylinder motor is not a chevy motor. It was not produced by gm.

So lets compare the 170 4 cylinder, to the 4 cylinder gm motor. The 4 cylinder gm based,produced motor has been around in one shape or form for more then 100 years, a tried and true power plant, and most commonly used in boats in hp configuration in 80 ,90 ,120 and 140 hp ratings, now being refer to as a 3.0 and was refer to as a 2.5 motor.

So why are parts so available, for the 3.0 130-140 hp gm based motor. Because the motor is still being produced today, and used today in many many boats.

If the 170 was such a wonderful and remarkable motor why isn't it produced today? Simple question, isn't it ?

There is a simple reason, the makeup of the motor and components are not conducive to reliable, and long term service in the marine environment.

Jeez this typing with 2 fingers wears on ya like a bad marriage, ( bet you guys didn't think i could use words like these huh, hah ) Taking me long enough to even spell them right.

The components that i refer to earlier in the post have already been discussed by other, better mechanical minds then mine.

So in closing cause i bet if your reading this you must be tired of this post, if you like the motor keep it, want to buy a boat with this motor in it, buy it,
you got the straight dope from people who have no monetary gain in posting the opinion that the motor is a POS, has always been a POS, and will always be a POS.

Does anyone want me to define POS, or is the letters explanation enough !

 

[bigbob_FTW]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

I feel the same way about fitch motors from OMC, great when they run, but not for the timid, or cash strapped. If I have a choice, I'll always go with a proven winner. Don't ask for opinions if your not prepared to handle the answer.

 

[mthieme]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

The 4 cylinder gm based,produced motor has been around in one shape or form for more then 100 years, a tried and true power plant, and most commonly used in boats in hp configuration in 80 ,90 ,120 and 140 hp ratings, now being refer to as a 3.0 and was refer to as a 2.5 motor.

Huh?
While GM has had a 4 cylinder motor since they acquired Oakland motors (Pontiac) 100 years ago, surely you don't suggest it shares anything other than being made out of cast iron with the modern Mercruiser 4 banger. Chevy started life with a 6 cylinder - the "Classic 6" which they used for at least the first 20 years of their existence (with GM).
However, the iron duke has certainly been around a while and has proven itself, no where near 100 years though. It would be my (4 cyl.) choice for reliability, economy, parts availability, etc. in a small runabout. I agree whole heartedly. Your history puzzles me though. GM has made many different 4 cylinders through the years. Some winners, some losers (remember the Vega).

 

[Robj]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

Rob, dude. Your back to the argument that they dont make it anymore. Like i said in the thread. Toyota doesnt make the 4afe anymore. And mine is still running.

Don't know much about the Toyota so I cannot comment. Your Toyota analogy does not make sense. I have seen some Vega's on the road, does that mean they were a good engine? All it means that with the know how you can keep it running.

For a new boater with no mechanical knowledge, I like many others would advise against buying the 3.7 l. While it can be a great runner like others have said, it will cost significantly more R amd M to keep it so. If you rely on a shop, it will be painful and expensive. The fact is, they can take their $$ and buy another boat that would serve them better, and be cheaper in the long run.

Regardless of the financial state GM is in, you cannot deny that they have built some excellent motors. While it is only small, the 4 banger is one of them and has served boaters for many years, and hopefully will continue to do so. My next boat will have the 4.3 l.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

Everyone: This has been a great thread! A little contentious at times but very informative. I have a 87, 165 Mercruiser and like they say you play the hand that you were dealt. Most of the time this has been a fine little engine, but I have had a few troubles with it and can certainly see how it has gotten its bad reputation, and you guys are right it probably is not a beginners motor (I was a beginner so I know). Lets see if I got this right, the main troubles are water pump seal (been there), charging system (getting there) and cooling. Not too bad, these can be corrected or repaired if caught in time. One other thing is the armature shaft on the starter is very long and can brake (happened twice), again easily fixed ($). One concern that I do have is the iron heads on the Al block. What are the long them implications there? Are they prone to warping, or are they likely to be OK as long as the engine is not overheated? Anything else to look for? It looks like Artificialreef and Don are both right. A good mechanic could be very happy with one of these and a beginner could be way over their head. Would I buy one with a ?leaky? water pump (no water in oil), maybe (knock off $750), with a low cylinder no way. Thanks!

 

[Bondo]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

I think you are giving the bashers more credit than they deserve. I dont think their motives were so honorable. Most are just loyal to their brands or models. But anyway you are a credit to our race mthieme. Homosapiens

Ayuh,... I know when I'm being talked about,....

When the poor sap that already owns 1 of these POS motors comes by,...
Don, or Myself, or a Host of Others are Right here to Help them get another lap outa their motors,...
But,...
When a Newbie wanders by asking whether a boat with a 470 is what they should buy, or steal,..
It's Our responsibility as Boaters to warn them of the Known Pitfalls of buying a POS...
That allows our ranks to expand,...
Bringing in More Boaters to the lifestyle We all Love is the bottom line...
Not setting up some poor ba$tard with a POS motor that potentially will turn them Off to Boating...

The only way to get To that bottom line is to warn folks about Not buying something that Parts can't be found for,....
Which to Me includes 470s,+ OMCs,.. Especially Stringer drives....

Even after You, artificialreef, come here to Bash Us,...
We'll still be here to bail your azz out when the time comes.....
'cause the time Will come when your 470s $h!t...

Btw,.... If you don't like the Opinions found here,... Maybe it's You who is in the Wrong Forum...

Good Luck with your Twin Headaches.........

 

[Robj]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

I remember when I was looking at buying my first I/O boat, I came accross what seemed to be a great deal but the boat had an OMC drive. Did not know much at the time, asked a few questions and was advised against it. I am very grateful for those that gave me the advice. I found another deal but this has a Volvo drive. Ready to go, sitting in my garage waiting for this crazy weather to improve.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

However, the iron duke has certainly been around a while and has proven itself, no where near 100 years though. Vega).

He was joking about the 100 years comment, obviously.

But let me be the one to, again, remind and educate everyone here, that the 3.0 (and previously 2.5) engine used in marine applications is NOT the Iron Duke engine of GM. Just take one look at the head of a boat 3.0 and one in a Celebrity and you'll see the obvious difference. Nothing inherently bad about either engine, just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that they are not the same. (I know, I used to think the marine engine was the same as in our Buick Century!)

Excellent point brought up by all here, as usual.

But Bond-O, with the way he is starting a fight and not commenting, the original poster is just baiting us, and when his 470 craps out, he's not going to ask us for help. He probably will still say that 470s are great engines, cause it took his 20 years or more to fail.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

Oh gawd...this train is just like the OMC Cobra train. I'll jump on and ride for a while!


Chief.....I just loved your post!

I would also add that the "bashing" is really not bashing people who own these engines. It's simply telling people, really..... admitted 1st time boat owners, who are buying their first boat that *SOME* engine/drive systems are not for them.

OMC Cobras come to mind as well as the 3.7L Merc, and other engines/drives that have been long since discontinued.

I think you'll find that most of the posts for people that already have these "systems" speak to helping them fix their problems instead of bashing them for buying it....


Once someone has pulled the trigger on buying one of these things.....I think most on here will simply try to help them fix it. (yes there are some that will tell them to dump it and replace it that 's always going to happen....and it's also usually a good idea!)


If someone jumped on here and said they were going to buy a boat with a 460 King Cobra inside, we would tell that it is a POS and they should either steer clear or try to get it for next to nothing (and then replace it)......and we'd include a WHOLE bunch of supporting evidence of why even that is not always cost effective.......

But once "the deed is done", I think everyone here who has something to contribute on fixing it usually offer constructive information.....

Same thing with the 3.7L engine.....

The difference is that if someone says they're thinking about buying one...... We'll try to talk them out of it ........ then the "beatings will continue until morale improves"

I'll also add, What Don (and other moderators) does (and should do) is lock these threads when they get personal....


Good luck with it!


Rick

 

[chiefalen]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

HT is a sweet talker for sure.

One of the problems i see is, that people that already own the 170, tell people that are looking to buy a boat to go ahead and buy it, that THEY don't have a problem with the one they own.

The problem with buying a really cheap boat or getting one for free is, that the boat can't be put on the water safely. The cheap boat that cost a 100 dollars turns out to be a 5000 dollar boat.

That is what i would not like to see happen to a guy or gal who asks us for help, and we give them the wrong advice.

So if we give the poster all the info, and the real dope, then it's up to them to take the advice, or ignore the advice.

I can only speak for myself, but in no way have i intentionally made it personal when a guy / gal asks for help, the info i give is meant to inform not demean.

 

[roadrash]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

Well on the other side of the coin, buying a 170 and not knowing the issues is a hell of alot better than buying a force l drive. Ive done both : )

 

[CHAWK46]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

I had one in a '84 Imperial. The boat stunk but I never had one problerm with the 470. Took care of it myself. Sold it last year.

 

[tmh]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

OK, add Mercury marine to the list of "470 haters". Heck they're the ones who abandoned it....

The power and weight advantage of that design was a perfect application to marine engine! Yet, they gave up on it - why do you suppose that is?

 

[abj87]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

OK, add Mercury marine to the list of "470 haters". Heck they're the ones who abandoned it....

The power and weight advantage of that design was a perfect application to marine engine! Yet, they gave up on it - why do you suppose that is?

manufacturing engine blocks, cranks and cams are expensive.

 

[Old & In the way]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

Most of my boats have been outboards...

I read these threads and try to learn about I/Os and their engines.

So, please help me turn this around a little, what do we LIKE in engines ?
Best weight to bang for the buck, parts quality and availability, overall reliability and best of breed ?

Thanks.
Ed

 

[Don S]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

This thread is not about what we want or not want an engine. It's about a particular engine that has many known issues. Lots of parts that aren't available any more and also about an engine that is no longer made.

If you want opinions of what people want in a marine engine, then my suggestion would be to start a new thread over in Boat topics and questions about what people are looking for in a marine engine in a particular type boat. Then you will get both outboard and IO/inboard views.

 

[ne7800]

Re: No Love for the Merc 470

even a free boat can end up being very expensive if you rely on a shop to do all your work.

If someone were to give me a free or extremely cheap boat with a 470 would I take it? Possibly. But I do all the work myself and would be careful not to put more $$ into it than it is worth.

I bought a boat with the dreaded 470 last summer as my first boat could not pass up the deal. while i am not a boat mechanic i can work on things myself so $600 latter with help of the iboats crew (especialy don) i am out cruising on the water. So I think they are a ok motor however if i had to pay some one to fix the boat i probably would have just parted it out and looked for another boat.