Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

[xtraham]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

this has to be the most self centered thread I have ever read......
as if I do it, it's okay, if I don't it's not.........

do some research smoke haters.....
1 outside family BBQ emits as much toxins as 600,000 cigarette's do you do that with an 02 thank on your back?
take heed listen to what DWJ is trying to get across to you........*hammer
I hate lima beans, should they be out lawed just because I don't like em' ?
or should YOU go outside to eat them cause I don't want to smell em' ?
and the gasses that you will pass because of them...

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

do some research smoke haters.....
1 outside family BBQ emits as much toxins as 600,000 cigarette's do you do that with an 02 thank on your back?
Duh, that's why ya do it outside!:}

 

[QC]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

My points, Sir Medoc, are that:

a) anti-smoking laws, although potentially good, are a slippery slope

b) that hatred for big evil tobacco justifies lying, and that our children will believe these lies and learn their personal priorities based on our indicated priorities

c) that business sometimes when left alone does the right thing.

Are you confused about anything else that I can clear up? :} 8)

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

I agree, although all of your points leave something to be desired, something is missing in every one of them....
Are you confused about anything else that I can clear up?
Yes, why would any parent in their right mind not want to do everything in their power to discourage their children from smoking?.......
Especially when you can't use food stamps to buy them? ......JK

 

[QC]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

Nobody said this stuff was simple, and I never said that we shouldn't discourage children from smoking. I want my kids to undertsand that while smoking is bad for their health, there are many other issues that are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy more important.

 

[xtraham]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

GET EDUCATED HERE]

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

No $ale.....
There is no way to justify smoking cigarettes...
I wish that I had the sense & that my parents were a little more forceful in discouraging it when I was younger....
I won't go on about it, the majority of the voters have spoken, DEAL WITH IT!.......JK

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

I have yet to meet a smoker who admits to throwing their butts on the ground however...

Is there a emoticon for raising your hand?

 

[Pony]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

this has to be the most self centered thread I have ever read......
as if I do it, it's okay, if I don't it's not.........

do some research smoke haters.....
1 outside family BBQ emits as much toxins as 600,000 cigarette's do you do that with an 02 thank on your back?
take heed listen to what DWJ is trying to get across to you........*hammer
I hate lima beans, should they be out lawed just because I don't like em' ?
or should YOU go outside to eat them cause I don't want to smell em' ?
and the gasses that you will pass because of them...

a) HAve you ever used a BBQ grill in the house?
b) Does your eating Lima beans harm everyone around you to some extent?

Its pretty simple. Smoking should be outside unless its a private home or business.......then do what you want. If it isnt private, then I think smoking has no place indoors. What we really need here is just common courtesy. Most smokers don't mind stepping outside to smoke one.

The reall problem I see is that workers who smoke somehow feel entitled to extra breaks, and if they don't have that cigarette every two hours their world might end.

 

[QC]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

There is no way to justify smoking cigarettes...

Who tried to justify smoking? I am pretty sure that my concerns and those of others have to do with limiting freedoms and lying. Both are things you get really cranked up about when the topic is Dubya Hmmmmm . . .

I wish that I had the sense . . . when I was younger....

That statement assumes you have sense now

 

[xtraham]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking


yes pony it is very offensive to smell the repercussion of someone's beans........

this is why 100% lib's have no place in any position of power..it's my or the highway,
ever eat at a restaurant that serves BBQ ?
don't say they have exhaust fans, because so do smoking areas.......
and I doubt that you would be setting with over 600,000 smokers!
BTW stay home when you have a cold, I don't want to touch the door knob the you touched while you are sick........
The point is where does the controlling of things we do stop if we let them get their foot in the door ?

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

...1 outside family BBQ emits as much toxins as 600,000 cigarette's ....

I often drag my bbq about 3 feet from the front of a business and fire it up. When I am done I empty the grease trap on the ground.

 

[CJY]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

"One is a moral issue, and one is a possible health issue, waaaaay down the road. The immoral behavior is considered OK by most. Plagiarism, cheating, downloading copyrighted material for free all OK. Smoking? Evil. What priorities are we teaching our kids? Discussing moral issues is considered just plain silly, old fashioned, kooky religious right stuff. Tell them that I'd much rather they be a good human than worry about second hand smoke, and even my wife looks at me crosseyed"

QC, you probably should explain your agenda, here. How/why is there even a comparison of smoking to classroom behavior. They are not the same. Why do you believe one takes priority over the other. I don't know about you, but I taught my own children to not only be a good human, but also know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, healthy and unhealthy. One is no more important than the other. If you have attempted to prioritize them, then I understand the conflict you are having. In your mind, others may not have prioritized them the same as you. This is causing you problems.

Most accept immoral behavior? Are you sure? Let me bring your attention to the most recent election. Repubs, the self proclaimed religous moral police, out. Why, immoral behavior. I cannot agree with you on this one QC. Some accept immoral behavior, majority, never. The "some" that accept the immoral behavior is exactly the reason for laws such as the no smoking laws. They either don't know the diff between right and wrong, or don't care.

 

[rmmpe]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

I agree with much of what has been shared in this forum.

Nobody, NOBODY has a right to inflict anything upon another. Including laws targeting a class of people.

However, it is unfortunate that the actions of some make it neccessary to institute those laws.

At my last job there was a no smoking in the building policy, which, as a smoker, I supported. Unfortunately, many smokers simply dropped their butts on the ground, which caused me a major problem. After picking up others' refuse for 2 years, I repeatedly warned them that if they continued to do so, I would make the entire property a non-smoking environment, save for the shed we constructed for that purpose.
Unfortunately, it did not stop and the debris had to be cleaned up by our Janitor.
Well, the unavoidable happened and everybody was informed that anyone caught smoking outside the shed would be terminated.

Unfortunately, it cost 2 people their jobs before smokers understood I was serious.

Summary:
A little common courtesy is in order and demanded if we are to be a society of considerate people and avoid having other people make our choices for us.

BTW, I don't smoke in my house or boat for many reasons; it leaves:
1. residue everywhere (a coating I don't want to clean).
2. smells offensive to everyone.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

GET EDUCATED HERE]

From that link:

"Teenagers die by the thousands in accidents, suicides, and homicides. But look at the table below from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC]. Examining the age distribution of "smoking-related deaths," we discover that -- aside from burn victims and pediatric diseases -- tobacco does not kill a single person below age 35! . . . . "

The author is a complete A S S .

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

The author is a complete A S S .

[/color]

You forgot to put H.O.R.S.E.S. in front of that.

 

[QC]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

QC, you probably should explain your agenda, here.

I have no idea why you suspect an agenda. I have none other than QC's opinion of appropriate ranking of issue importance to our children. I rank morality as #1, second hand smoke as # 387 (Gloabl Warming as 386 or 388 ). I believe I have been 100% consistent with this ranking with all previous, related posts . . .

How/why is there even a comparison of smoking to classroom behavior.

I never mentioned classroom behavior other than the concept of cheating on a test. Cheating on a test is immoral. May seem an overstatement, but how is cheating on a test different than stealing? Isn't the cheater taking someone else's intelectual property? I intended my comments to mean life behavior. BTW, I know how difficult these distinctions are with children; I have three. But why is it that we more readily excuse cheating on a test, but smoking in the boy's room deserves a severe reprimand?

Why do you believe one takes priority over the other. I don't know about you, but I taught my own children to not only be a good human, but also know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, healthy and unhealthy.

My first reaction is AWESOME. Second is why do you rank/equate healthy with good behavior? Seems unrelated . . .

One is no more important than the other.

See above. I simply disagree. One is 100% more important than the other if you believe that being a good human is defined as how you treat others. Health is about self, not others. I'd rather a popluation of flabby, hacking, good guys; than healthy and beautiful violent criminals.

In your mind, others may not have prioritized them the same as you. This is causing you problems.

I guess I think this whole discussion is about priorities. I disagree that smoking belongs in the same discussion and priority as morality. See my rankings above. Equating smoking with moral behavior becomes dangerously close to equating smoking with murder. Not the same, not even flippin' close, and I shudder to think that is not clear to you . . . Seriously. Murder is a morality issue, smoking is not. Yet our schools focus on anti-smoking, but morality is taboo . . . That's fooked up.

Repubs, the self proclaimed religous moral police, out. Why, immoral behavior.

1) I am not a Republican, although I should be

2) You can trivialize a focus on morality as much as you want, it only brands you as clueless for me. I mean no offense, but morality is everything. I know you think it is presumptuous, pompous, arrogant etc., which was the whole point of my post. Ask yourself this. Would you rather that your child becomes a murderous gangster or a smoker? If you answer gangster, you are a fool. If you answer smoker, you prioritize moral behavior ahead of health . . .

3) Bad apples are . . . hmmmmm . . . bad apples. They do not invalidate anything other than themselves. You wouldn't be guilty of stereotyping now would you?

The "some" that accept the immoral behavior is exactly the reason for laws such as the no smoking laws.

Again, you equate health with morality. I think this is obviously, and unquestionably, false. I know you think that morality means some scary biblical interpretation. And I answer, "what other interpretation is there?" Again, seriously. And PLEASE understand I don't even go to church. I just have no idea where else morality is defined. Common sense? BS. I know this concept, more than anything else, brands me as a simpleton idiot. With that understood, I implore you to honestly consider the question. How/where else is morality defined? Please, please, please consider this without simply dismissing. This is not an appeal for you to believe and/or worship. Not even close. It is a logical question regarding the definitions of moral behavior.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

1) I am not a Republican, although I should be

QC, I love you man. You're one of my favorite people on here.

But I gotta call BS on this one... It is not enough to simply disavow membership when you consistantly and predictably take the republican line and run with it.

I'd say you are 95% republican and 5% moderate.

That's OK though. I find your opinions well thought and articulate.

As far as myself, I am 60% republican, 30% moderate, and 10% liberal. It must be my softer side and all.... 8)

 

[CJY]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

It was not my intent to define them as exactly the same, other than right and wrong. You must define them in your own mind. Smoking, cheating, stealing, all belong in the "wrong" category as far as I am concerned.


As far as plagiarism, cheating, and downloading copyrighted material for free is all ok in schools? Who said that. Somehow, you have made a jump from my acceptance of the no-smoking laws to my accepting cheating in the classroom..?.?.? Fact is, I don't accept it, just like I would not accept smoking in the classroom. I can tell you one huge difference between the two in the classroom though. It is much easier to pick out a student smoking in the classroom as opposed to a student cheating. Not only that, parents don't defend their children after caught smoking in the building.

It is also much easier for schools to uphold no-smoking rules compared to cheating. No smoking means no smoking, it is very black and white. Cheating, very black and white looking in from the outside. But unless you catch the kid red-handed and have clear evidence, it's all circumstantial. Kids know this, parents do as well. A student is much more likely to lie to a parent on a cheating issue also. Parent's that want to befriend their kids, defend them. In the sense that a parent is willing to bail their kids out on cheating, I guess I would have to agree, some parents accept and defend their children after caught cheating.

You can trivialize a focus on morality as much as you want, it only brands you as clueless for me

I'm not sure what makes you believe I have trivialized anything. My point, the people that claim to have all the morals, those that want to parade those same morals, often lack them. If you think that is stereotyping, ok. I don't need to prove to anyone I have morals, that I don't or what they may or may not be. I have a much simpler definition of morals, ethics and health. I simply call them right and wrong. If your contention is right from wrong is defined by religion...ok, I accept that and never intended to propose anything else.

As far as how "morals" or where they are defined??? Again, it was not my attempt to equate morals with smoking, other than, at least in my book, they are both "wrong". In that sense, again for myself, they are equal. As far as accepting smoking over cheating or vice versa, neither, and that is my answer. Neither would be more readily accepted over the other. That is no way means my morals are any less or lower than yours. I simply would be no more accepting of one over the other. Again, I have two categories and no subcategories, right vs. wrong.

 

[Pony]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

yes pony it is very offensive to smell the repercussion of someone's beans........

this is why 100% lib's have no place in any position of power..it's my or the highway,
ever eat at a restaurant that serves BBQ ?
don't say they have exhaust fans, because so do smoking areas.......
and I doubt that you would be setting with over 600,000 smokers!
BTW stay home when you have a cold, I don't want to touch the door knob the you touched while you are sick........
The point is where does the controlling of things we do stop if we let them get their foot in the door ?

Sure I have been to restaurants that serve BBQ........a propane powered grill/flame set up is NOT the same as fireing up the charcoals in the back yard.

Yes they have exhaust fans............and they just so happen to be much more powerful and effective than the "smokeater" in the restaurant. A kitchen fan at a restaurant gets smoke etc out of the building almost immediately, but in a restaurante it would get swirled around by the cieling fans awile until it finally got sucked into a filter that hasnt been cleaned in 20 years.

We wouldnt need laws if everyone was considerate, its that simple. And since these agendas pass, it means a majority feel that way. I agree with what frog said earlier.................smokers are dirty. They leave butts around, and quite frankley 2/3 of the smokers I know have breath that could kill. Judged by the company you keep..........if you don't like it change your company.