Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

[QC]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

Frogger,

I am only being hyper-correct as I am registered undeclared. I do like to throw that out though when I think it helps my point, so it is a little bit of a BS thing. You're right. I have been recommending voting party line very strongly and am going to finally get off my duff and register Republican. Long ago I thought party line was stupid, now I think being undeclared is stupid . . . Love you too man 8)

CJY,

Sorry about the clueless thing, I meant that generically, not directed at you.

My ENTIRE point is that it is very sad to me that smoking is considered as important a right and wrong issue as other, clearly morally based behavior issues. Smoking is not about right and wrong to me. And it blows my mind that others think it is. With that logic, eating fatty foods is wrong and eating oranges is right. What the flyin' flip do my eating habits have to do with right? Haven't we then indicated to our children that eating a fatty burger is as wrong as cheating on a test? I stand by my comment, cheating is stealing, smoking is not mentioned in any morality definitions I have ever seen. It points out that the left is as enamored with health and the environment as the right is with morality. Sounds like religion of the Body and Earth as opposed to the Mind and Behavior. Just does NOT work for me.

Not only that, parents don't defend their children after caught smoking in the building . . . In the sense that a parent is willing to bail their kids out on cheating, I guess I would have to agree, some parents accept and defend their children after caught cheating.

And that right there is exactly my concern. Parents will defend their kid on an issue as serious as cheating. "It's OK Johnny, I know you needed to pass that test. Go ahead, lie on job applications, cheat on your taxes, fudge the books if it makes the stock price rise. That's how you play the game, son. But please, please, whatever you do, don't smoke."

Isn't that the ultimate message delivered?

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

WHEW!!!! this was a long thread! I need a smoke!8)

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

Pony, your absolutly correct about the exhasut fans. However when air is taken out, air must be replaced. This air is replaced by air coming in from outside. In that outside air is really nasty stuff. IMHO it is worse than smokers smoke. Work with me one day this coming spring when it is time to clean HVAC units and you will be suprised by the amount of crap that is collected in the fresh air return filters. These filters are about like a window screen, not much for filtering out hazadous contaminates. These particular filters just keep out leaves, birds, and large objects that can get caught up in the blower. A few of our stores have always been nonsmoking since they were built about 15 years ago. Their filters that clean the air (not the fresh air replacement intake) are no different than the smoking ones. These large units move thousands of feet of air per minuet. In just a month they will be inefficient for the unit and need changed.

The main heart of the units are located on the roof tops. Nobody is ever up there to contaminate the coils with smoke. These coils on these units get clogged and will cause shut down problems. When the coils are cleaned, there is black stuff that just pours out when washing them. This gets so bad that sometimes the coils need cleaning 3 or 4 times a year. This same black stuff that gets washed out of the coils is the same stuff that is circulated inside the stores through the fresh air intake that you breath. IMO this is the stuff that will cause harm to the body since nobody knows or has done research on it.

Keep in mind that it took about a thousand years before it was confirmed that a mosquito did all the killing with the disease they carry. It may take longer for them to realize that there are many more things in our air that is causing the health problems. This maybe why people who get lung cancer that has never been around tobacco gets the disease. Researchers that want to find the cause will and can make the presuptions that make them look good to keep their money coming. Just how long do you think they would keep getting money if their research didn't confirm what they were wanting to achieve?

I know everyone draws their conclusion to this issue, but I just ask that you should open your mind and look at the other possibilities that could cause health problems.

Example on false research is from 30 years ago about eggs being a main contributor of cholestrol. Research today has found that they were wrong.

 

[CJY]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

"What the flyin' flip do my eating habits have to do with right? Haven't we then indicated to our children that eating a fatty burger is as wrong as cheating on a test?"

QC, not wrong in the sense it is bad for the person doing the smoking, but wrong in the sense that it harms others. There are no morals in harming others? I guess I would argue that point.

"With that logic, eating fatty foods is wrong and eating oranges is right."

I disagree, you can do both sitting right next to me and it does not affect my health at all. Smoking does, and it is much much more than just the foull smell.

" I stand by my comment, cheating is stealing"

Ok, I don't want to argue this as I agree to a point.

I will play the devil's advocate for a minute.

The diff between stealing answers and stealing material goods is that there is a clear loser when something of material is stolen. When a person steals answers, they themselves are the victim, they have cost themselves an opportunity to learn. Cheating on a test does little harm to anyone else. The person stolen from is no less intelligent than if he/she did not have answers take from them.

I understand that the cheater may eventually end up on public assistance or prison and may cost taxpayers money in the long run. The fact of the matter, they most likely would have done the same w/o cheating except they would have dropped out of school and began the assisted living even earlier.

"It points out that the left is as enamored with health and the environment as the right is with morality. Sounds like religion of the Body and Earth as opposed to the Mind and Behavior. Just does NOT work for me."

Little too broad a brush for me to even attempt to comment on. We both know this is not an accurate statement.

"And that right there is exactly my concern. Parents will defend their kid on an issue as serious as cheating. "It's OK Johnny, I know you needed to pass that test. Go ahead, lie on job applications, cheat on your taxes, fudge the books if it makes the stock price rise. That's how you play the game, son. But please, please, whatever you do, don't smoke."

Isn't that the ultimate message delivered? "


Yes, that message may very well be the one delivered in many homes. It is however, outside anything that I have control of.

 

[xtraham]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

I understand that the cheater may eventually end up on public assistance or prison and may cost taxpayers money in the long run. The fact of the matter, they most likely would have done the same w/o cheating except they would have dropped out of school and began the assisted living even earlier.


Cheaters lie,liars steal, etc etc.......

I DID NOT INHAIL !

I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN ! etc,etc

I don't think he dropped out of high school or received any welfare

 

[CJY]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

xtraham,

"Cheaters lie,liars steal, etc etc......."

True, and that is the reason I don't trust W.

What is your point? Do you have one? Ohh, I get it, your talking about Mark Foley. He is a democrat...right?

 

[xtraham]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

CJY, don't get me wrong, I know you can't hear vocal emotion in type,
not trying to get political either.........
you would stomp this indi in the mud with that.......8)

I am simply stating that morality and finance has nothing in common
just because one lies,cheats does not mean they are going to be a public burden.......
the shame is it seem's that they wind up in better shape than most "financially"
I must say I understand where QC is going with this...and agree

 

[Pony]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

I hear ya Mayfloat. I'm sure there are lots of things that we breathe in on a daily basis that are just as bad if not worse than cigarrete smoke. I cannot argue that. Its scarey to think what we actually injest into our systems. Look at how many health problems people have now who worked in a factory environment. My dad is convinced it gave him cancer, and my grandpa's lungs are absolute garbage.

 

[QC]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

CJY,

I totally agree that smoke invades others space. And totally agree that smoking with no regard for others is just like obnoxious behavior etc., and close to being morally reprehensible. BTW, I believe I posted that I like the result of smoking laws: less stinky public places. I am concerned about the slippery slope, hence the fatty food comments and ultimately I worry about the relative priority indicated by such strong emphasis in schools. Annnnddd I hate misinformation, which is why I post against blindly stumbling into Global Warming stuff, and in relative terms I think we are very blind on GW.

I tend to rank things, and Smoking as a world issue is just very low to me, the emphasis applied indicates priority to me, so I assume it does for children as well. I ultimately would like much more emphasis on being good humans.

BTW, I also hate the Bush lied stuff. I think that is false witness (not to be biblical), which is, er, uh . . . lying. I have a problem with people taking character assassination lightly, and I know of no lies that Bush has told. Sorry to hijack (you started it). With that said, our discussions are becoming much more civil . . . Cool 8)

 

[crunch]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

QC, beware, that only happens when he's on the ropes. No matter how hard you try, he just doesn't get it... or admit it.

He twists and takes your words out of context. slams you at every turn, only replies to selected quotes to your determent, and plays upon his reputation of "intellectual dissertations"

Don't fall for it... he's a basically "Walter Mitty" type.

 

[QC]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

Personally crunch, I think CJY is passionate, his tactics seem similar to others that take their words seriously . . .

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

I would take peoples words seriously if they were consistant. They are not. Abortions are know to cause higher breast cancer rates, but who is out there supporting a ban on abortions? Those who are so adamently opposed to cigs. Hardly. I am thrilled to hear how majority rules in now the law, and marriage is now defined as between a man and a woman. But I am sure those who posted how important majority rules is on the cigarette issue will have a significantly different take on those initiatives. Majority rules?

What someone does in the privacy of their own home is the cry of some but what someone does in the privacy of their own business is another story. If I own a bar, and I want to allow smoking, whats your standing to tell me otherwise?

If someone drops their butts on the ground we have laws for that, it's littering. Candy wrappers, gum, burger skins, or butts, its all the same.

Worried about air polution? Why is burning an American Flag a "right", but burning a gag a crimminal offense? Which do you think releases more toxins? I guess we should just package cigs with the american flag embossed on the outside of each one. Liberals will most likely take up smoking in droves.

If the nut cases were really worried they would make them illegal. But it is about having their cake and eating it too. Sad to hear those who claim to be the champions of our civil rights working the wrong side of the street. I find it hard to take any of their comments about any politican or freedoms seriously while they do their best to practice segregation on their own terms.

BTW can someone show me the statue against offending anyone, I have an encyclopedia of names of people who need to be prosecuted.

 

[CJY]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

Pointer,

Smoking is simply a personal issue for me as my dad died of lung cancer last October. It's not safe to assume anything regarding abortions because you have zero clue as to where I stand on that issue. I don't believe I have ever posted anything regarding abortion laws. Bottom line, I dislike W and that in no way makes me pro abortion. I am for cig laws, and that in no way makes me pro abortion. If it's my words you find inconsistent, it is only because you have made assumptions as to where I stand on issues. I have never claimed to be a democrat/lib nor have I ever claimed to be a republican/cons. I don't believe I am either. If wanting to rid the Whitehouse and congress of W and his supporters makes me a dem/lib in your eyes, ok, then call me one. It really makes no difference which side other perceive me to be on. The issues supported by democrats or republicans, across the board, is not what puts me on one side or the other though.

My only claim, I dislike W and believe America needed/needs a new direction.

QC, Thank you, I appreciate the words.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

CJY, it's just his style to go off on a tangent to try to illustrate his point.....
If ya can't dazzle 'em with brilliance....
Well, you know....
I suppose the real question here is:
If a business is open to the public does that make it a public place?
I say, yes it does......JK

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

CJY,

My point goes to the fact that there is a medical premise associated with the prohibition of smoking. There are some who feel they know how others should live their lives and use medical reasons for their substatiation of removal of freedoms. My point to abortion is that they cannot use the medical rational to prohibit smoking while revelling in the practice that results in an increase in breast cancer. Guess what, the NOW gang is really afraid of a new challenge as it uses the detremental effects on the mothers health at its core. Also, if anyone here owns a bar, I didn't direct this post to you either. My post was for anyone who thinks that they actually gained something by restricting someones elses freedom. Well be careful what you consider a victory, as it can and most assuradely will be used to remove something you enjoy. I have no idea where you gleened my comments to be a critique of you or your politics. If my post offended you it was not my intention.

Majority rules only works when it doesn't infringe on someones civil and constitutional rights. A fact clearly lost to some of our less insightful readers. I didn't direct this to you or anyone in specific or I would have used their name.

I never expect Haut to understand anyone's post let lone mine. I'll try to use pictures for you next time Haut.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

So with that arguemnt, I should be able to smoke pot in the bar, too....

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

Now you are beginning to get it. Start with pot, then cigs, then red meat, then fried foods, then private fireplaces, then outdoor charcoal grills, then V8 engines, then pleasure craft, then riding lawm mowers and on and on and on. An all for the "benefit" of the masses.

Next thing you know we will be following Chinas model and start sterilizing women. For the good of all I am sure.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

I'd wager that you're OK with the pot ban....
& that fits right into the Rehub mindset....
"It's OK to to be an individual as long as you are just like me"......JK

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

Your track record continues. . . .

 

[CJY]

Re: Ohio issues 4 and 5 on smoking

Pointer,

I felt it was directed at me because it just appeared to flow from QC's "seriously" post, to you then picking up the conversation from "seriously," in your following post.

No problem, I was not offended. I was just unsure of how you may have considered me to be pro abortion from my stance on smoking / W. I now understand.

QC,

Just one quick jab, you said,

"I think we are very blind on GW"

I agree. Often I feel blind while watching him. I guess because I never see him accomplishing anything.ddd Sorry, it was one of those deals where I could not resist. ddd