Passion

[mikeandronda]

Re: Passion

I have to wonder Plywoody, would you stand up for Christian rights as well as others. I have the right to think your beliefs are wrong and even express my thoughts, but it seems if I express that I feel you are wrong your types call me predjuduce. When you call my beliefs wrong its being openminded. Its just that I have never seen a post where you have defended Christians, but I have seen many a posts that you defend other religions that feel their belief is the ultimate truth. Most religions feel their way is the ultimate truth so are you against all?

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Passion

Fortuatly it is the "Ultimate Truth"! God said it, I beleive it, That settles it! <br /><br />"I am the way and the truth and the life! NO ONE gets to the father except by me"! (Jesus)

 

[dhud64]

Re: Passion

Originally posted by plywoody:<br /><br />I don't care what others believe, as long as they are willing to tolerate other's beliefs and accept their right to believe as they choose.<br />qb]

I believe in marriage of the family pet, but that thread got POOFED?<br />What do ya think about that plywoody?

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Passion

Right on LubeDude!!!! Well put!!<br /><br />Ply, beliefs are beliefs. Some are right, some not. Who will make the judgement? God. I love my Islamic niehbors, just like my Christian niehbors. I think they are decieved, and I wouldlove for them to make it into Heaven, but I'll not judge them, or gays, or liberals et al. I just wanna love everyone.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Passion

I think marriage to the family pet is a pretty bad idea, from very scientific and biological evidence of same, and thus is against the law.<br /><br />Oh, and I always defend the rights of Christains or anyone else to believe in whatever religion they wish, if any. What I don't defend and will fight against is when any of them of whatever description attempt to impose their beliefs on anyone else.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Passion

I Qoute<br /><br />"On a different level, I am a bit concerned that, as we have seen on this board, many will view this as the "Ultimate Truth" with the implication that if this is indeed the ultimate truth, all other beliefs must of necessity be wrong. All we need is to fan the flames of yet another holy war."<br /><br />Is it or is it not my right to believe that this movie portrays truth? By doing so how in anyway does my belief in that start a holy war? No offence but before you accuse you should know a bit about what your talking about. Christianity is about love. Christ commands to love your enemy. I know Ply your gonna point out past wrong doings in the name of Christ but they are just as wrong in useing Christs name as I would be beating up a homosexual and saying I do it in your name. Would you agree Plywoody somebody out there is right? I mean somebody has to be right?<br />There is an ultimate truth.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Passion

The "ulitmate truth"... I don't know it... You don't know it.. Nobodys does... We were'nt there to gaze upon these events with our own eyes...<br /><br />FWIW... Got my money on evolution...<br /><br />Maybe these guys?

 

[Hooty]

Re: Passion

They are Godless socialists.<br /><br />c/5<br />Hooty

 

[JoeW]

Re: Passion

Ultimate truth?<br />This movie tells a story, as does the New Testament. Jesus lived and died, even most non-Christians should not doubt that. We have no reason to doubt the apostles. For those of us who believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he died for our sins, this movie is an inspiration. For those who do not so believe, this movie is still a great depiction of a historical event that is as accurate as it can reasonably be for such events of that period. I just don't understand the concerns that have been raised over this movie. What ultimate truth? This event happened whether or not you believe Jesus was the messiah. <br /><br />Antisemitic? How many Christians learned of the manner of Jesus death only after seeing this movie? How many Christians did not know that Jesus was a Jew? I find absurd the notion that this movie is antisemitic. Would I be a German hater for watching Schindler's List?<br /><br />Even though I don't believe in Islam, I would look forward to a movie of this magnitude if it were made of the prophet Mohammed.

 

[dhud64]

Re: Passion

Plywoody-<br />You are wavering(?) here my friend.<br />You just said marriage to the family pet is a pretty bad idea. You have just imposed your belief upon me. <br />I happen to embrace the idea, and likewise many of my followers. It's not hurting anyone. So it should be ok, right?<br />What in the world is the difference?

 

[plywoody]

Re: Passion

M&R,<br /><br />You have every right to believe any way you wish. What concerns me is this movie's potential outcome, and history time and again has shown us that societies that feel they have "God on their side" are dangerous and horribly bloody.<br /><br />Which is why I oppose any sort of state sponsored religion.<br /><br />And yep, there may well be some sort of "Ultimate Truth". Neither you nor I get to choose what that is, however.<br /><br />And is the movie "Anti-Semitic"? To rational people, probably not. It is not a big secret that the Romans were particularly brutal to their enemies in those days, but in context of history, and especially the Roman Catholic Church's history relative to the second world war and the Holocaust, I think one has to walk a pretty fine line in this regard.<br /><br />And we already have several pentacostel churches proclaiming in billboards that the "Jews" killed Christ.<br /><br />As an artist, Gibson has every right to depict this any way he wishes, and I fully support that right. The rest of us have an obligation to treat it as what it is, and that is as an artist's interpretation, and nothing more.<br /><br />I don't think rational people will have a huge problem with that. Unfortunately, religious zealots are not always made up of rational people, and they scare me a bit.<br /><br />Perhaps that is just me.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Passion

Ok Plywoody first off if your gonna post that there are Christian churches puting up billboards stating that the Jews killed Jesus poat were they are and who did it. You paint a picture like Christians hate Jews and once again you need to know your facts. In my Bible I have read it was A group of jews and a group of Romans(gentiles) that percicuted and crucified Jesus together.Is concidered history so, Im sorry if you feel thats being anti-semetic by stating facts.The germans killed the jews in world war two and we teach that in our schools....is that anti-german teachings? Both me and you agree about religious zealots but please dont lump these indeviduals in with other Christians.......or for that matter anybody else.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Passion

Quote:<br />The "ulitmate truth"... I don't know it... You don't know it.. Nobodys does... We were'nt there to gaze upon these events with our own eyes...<br /><br />Being there won't give you the ultimate truth either. Take ten people who watch a crime and you will get ten different stories. Did you see the Reginald Denny video, yep, no crime there... Truth has little or nothing to do with how history is viewed and documented.<br />______________________________________________________<br /><br />Quote:<br />and especially the Roman Catholic Church's history relative to the second world war and the Holocaust, I think one has to walk a pretty fine line in this regard.<br />____________________________________________________<br /><br />Are you referring the the predominately white, catholic, men who used their religious backgrounds to formulate the decision to volunteer, and put an end to the Nazi terror. You know, the one's that died by the hundreds of thousands. What Hitler did was not a christian act nor was it endorced by the church. This is why history as esposed by anyone is simply a regurgitation of facts that they wish to believe mixed in with a dash of ones experiences to arrive at an interpretation.<br /><br />FYI Stalin killed far more people than did Hitler. Funny how his name never makes it into these threads... (Communist)<br /><br />This movie was based on the bible and it, from what I hear, it true to the authors. If that is something that scares some people maybe they should try to ban the book.. We all know that this will not happen.<br /><br />Perhaps all the anti-catholic movies created our buddies in Al Quida. (sp??) Maybe we should consider this before creating movies that make in some way catholics look bad.. Not going to happen. It is currently open season on catholics and piling on has become not only fashionable but politically correct.<br /><br />I also find that equating Howard Stern being pulled from a few stations to Adolf's little experiment, offensive, and I am not a Jew. Stalin, a famous left winger, did the same thing. I would also find that comparison equally as wrong.<br /><br />I will say, look at the $ draw for this movie, and Mel couldn't find anyone to make it? If hollywood is about money this would have been made years ago. Just another case of Hollywood putting politics ahead of "art". But now they have another reason to bash Mel..

 

[Carphunter]

Re: Passion

"Thomas, because you have seen me you believe, blessed are they who have not seen, yet have believed".<br /><br />There are some things that must be believed without seeing...........I believe its called Faith.<br /><br />It would be a sad existence for me to not have faith.<br /><br />I sure wouldn't want to be a doubting Thomas.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Passion

Update:<br /><br />117.5 million dollars in 5 days. But I can see how hollywood missed this market.. NOT

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Passion

Pointer,<br /><br />Fact: There are two ways to look at Christs death, either WE ALL killed him (we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God), thats you, me, Hitler, Lincoln et al; or he sacrificed himself ("for I lay down my life because I am able to take it up again," "greater Love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" and of course John 3:16 "for God so loved the world...." Anyone who is able to find an anti-Semitic message in this movie is woefully ignorant of the most fundamental tenet of Christ's church, His final commandment, TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS HE LOVED US ALL!!!!! That means that we are commanded to love everybody. If somebody says my church supported Hitler, my response is "I love you brother."<br /><br />There is irrefutable evidence that the RCC was somewhat other than neutral regarding the Third Reich. I don't think they had much of a choice, it was "go along with Hitler," a Catholic, or have a Panzer division come knocking on their doors. The RCC is a huge organization, but no matter how big, it still all comes down to people, right? Can anyone honestly say that the Pope was a big fan of Hitler? Of course not, that is ridiculous. Did VAT II issues apologetic statements regarding the actions (or lack there of ) of the church during WWII to the Jews? Yes. BUT WWII is Not the Vatican's fault. It is silly for anyone to assume that the RCC could have had more than a nominal effect on Hitler or his activities during the war. <br /><br />We can cloud this thread with all manner of muddy water. It tells a lot about us. If anyone knows a Christian that received an anti-Semitic message from this movie(Or anti Catholic for that matter), what a wonderful opportunity to minister to them!!!!! Come on folks, if you drive by a church with an anti-Semitic message on their marque, stop in and share the LOVE of the gospels with that paster!! This is an opportunity for an outpouring of love!! Do it, and receive the in-pouring of Christs Love and the Holy Spirit!! Jesus Loves you....and so do I

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Passion

Soulwinner,<br /><br />I couldn't agree with you more. I just get so frustrated when I hear this foolishness about how everything that is, was, or will be, is the fault of the catholic church. Do these people have no bounds to their persecution of catholics? Does the come a point where being discipline and having actual rules associated with a religion create a class of outcasts. Why don't Jews have a reputation based on Bugsy Siegel, and Mire Lanski? It would be wrong, but that is the same mentality that is used to exclude our points of view. At what point do we take our faith seriously enough to defend it against fabrications and misconceptions brought about by "Pop" culture.<br /><br />Great art is now a crucifix in urine and those who disagree are "unenlightened".<br /><br />All priests are child molesters cuz they are forced to be celebet?<br /><br />The Pope is a bigot cuz he won't let women be priests.<br /><br />All catholics hate Jews.<br /><br />This government wasn't based on Judeo/Christian values and therefor should have no bearing on lawmaking.<br /><br />You know the usual divel. In most cases these are intentional distortions created to secure a given outcome. I, in my faith have a hard time letting people state something about ANYTHING that is factually incorrect or a distortion. It is the job of all christians to share their faith and when it is misrepresented, we must do our best to help those people understand. Not punch them in the face, but not let the record go uncontested. I don't think that most people do it on purpose all the time, but this is where we have come, where talking to a christian, you might just become a bigot, homophobe, rasist, Hitler type. <br /><br />This situation is sad, and I would not presume to be as learned as you, but I know that it is my duty as a catholic to tell the truth. Even in a world of misconceptions.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Passion

Pointer,<br /><br />John 15:20-21 says "Remember the word that I have spoken untoyou, The servant is not greater than his Lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also."<br />"But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they do not Him that sent me."<br /><br />Rejoice Pointer. Love those who cast themselves as your enemy. For there is the victory! Bless you brother

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Passion

Pointer, P.S.<br /><br />Luke 6:27-28 "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,<br />Bles them that curse you you, and pray for them which despitfully use you"<br /><br />and then to Matthew 5:46 "For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?"<br /><br />This is a tough lesson to actually get onto and int your heart. I didn't feel it until I fasted. Now it is in there Oh what peace and joy reside in the occupation of these words and their daily practice.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Passion

Thank you SW<br /><br />I guess I am more like Peter, I just don't want to cut off peoples ears. <br /><br />A little christian humor...