PB Explained

[tpenfield]

Re: PB Explained

Unfortunately the link does not work.

Yup, links with "search id's" in them do not stand the test of time as they expire or something like that.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: PB Explained

Yup, links with "search id's" in them do not stand the test of time as they expire or something like that.

Welcome back to the thread

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: PB Explained

Well all I can say is this is why I have not kept my thread alive . People arguing over stupidity, in someone elses project. I guess my time to vent. I can see someone in the trade getting upset with changing names . Basically the PB come up with a name for a consitency. Too someone looking for help is not going to search PB. Most will search FILLER for a project, be it filleting, repairing a hole or fairing . All I can say is I search the net and find my info and look for consistency in my answers, But most people don't take the time and read and the first answer they find is what they do. That is a problem because most people here do good work but all we see are pictures and we all know pictures make everything look beautiful.

YD I appreciate MOST of your posts because you have been there and done that. Sometimes you push it to the limit I was in the trade for many years but like I said before I sprayed gelcoat and chopped. Never wanted to learn about repairs etc because I new it is a trade of it,s own. Actually I knew a guy at the shop could never ever get the art of gelcoat repair. Every repair he did looked great but give it a year. That stuff should have been sold as seconds in my books.

I wish the DIY people would give people in the trade more respect because it is only going to come back and bite you in the a?? because of the saying I told you so. Now I appreciate alot of the DIY Info as they have alot of good info, but I still search on until I am happy, happy, happy.

Anyhow I would love to see someone write up a recipe book of their formulas and ingredients of what they use for different projects. It would help alot of people out including me. When I am fixing up my hot rods I don't go to the car show and ask people what they did to get it looking that good . I go to my brother in law who just does body work and no painting for 30 years. But you know what he would not give me a bit of advice on this project.

If someone does do up a recipe book please just add on do not argue because you tried it on 2 boats and it worked for you. Post your findings and share .

Happy, Happy, Happy

Cheers

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: PB Explained

Not getting in this after some thought.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: PB Explained

I am getting fed up with this place. Nothing but bickering!. Oops coined that phrase and it stuck.

There are many names for it, and because we are all from different parts of the world, we all call it different things.

Name it has been called

gype
pooky (Not my term, but a term from a local boat guy)
Bear S**T
Snot
Kitty Hair

I can go on

When I think of Filler I think of Bondo WITHOUT fiberglass in it, and is used for fairing the hull of the boat.

I am done!!!! You can't do a restore to help people out without someone confusing the masses.

You are done with what?!!! Is the only reason you are doing this resto is to help people out?!

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: PB Explained

Sorry do a search on filler and you will see any manufacturers of boat supplies has it listed and Interlux as one is Manufactured by Sikkens which is owned by Akzonobel. Very reputable supplier. If you do a product search you will find anything from Epoxy putty to surface putty to bedding compound and reading the spec sheets it is all Fiberglass based product. They have to be becasue it is a compatibility issue. Then you get into powder fillers which you mix with whatever resin product it is used for. Experienced would not have made this statement and knowing your product is the first name of the game. That is why I asked for product experience first before I started my project. I knew there were alot of different products out there since I quit working with fiberglass. As to work experience ,for instance you do some fine work but do you know what the professionals know ?

I had a private message to me one time saying this is a DIY site and we can do the same work as the professionals . I never liked that statement since I recieved it. No respect for the professional that helped everyone in the first place.

When I think of Filler I think of Bondo WITHOUT fiberglass in it, and is used for fairing the hull of the boat.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: PB Explained

I am getting fed up with this place. Nothing but bickering!. Oops coined that phrase and it stuck.

There are many names for it, and because we are all from different parts of the world, we all call it different things.

Name it has been called

gype
pooky (Not my term, but a term from a local boat guy)
Bear S**T
Snot
Kitty Hair

I can go on

That is my point mate .. there is not ONE description of that elusive PB. It has different meanings depending on the application.

Unless its being suggested that PB is just Cabosil/resin/chopped mat.

When I think of Filler I think of Bondo WITHOUT fiberglass in it, and is used for fairing the hull of the boat.

Boat Filler is just a term used as a putty that should be applied .. again dependent on the application. Nobody said anything about fairing out a hull. ( Actually that would be coined as Mud ).

I am done!!!! You can't do a restore to help people out without someone confusing the masses.

Why would you be done ? .. Im trying to help others understand. Im not bickering .. just trying to bring a point to the table. Im not bashing anyone .. im not putting down anyone .. just .. well re-read what I said already in this thread ..

Now as you can see I am NOT trying to eliminate "PB" from the forums. Not at all. ..

Again. .. Let me try to explain what I am trying to suggest.

Use the Term "PB" all you want .. however it would be helpful to Define exactly What Filler components will go into the "PB" that you are suggesting to use.

Examples:

Q. How do I help tab in my stringers to avoid small pockets of air.
A. Mix up some PB and use as a fillet. ( Not really telling you What PB to use ).
Q. Whats PB ?

Q. I have some stress cracks and I would like to know whats the best way to repair.
A. Mix up some PB then sand and apply gelcoat. ( Again not really telling you What filler to use ).
Q. Whats PB?

Now typically the answer to "whats PB" is done by redirecting the thread to another thread with a recipe on how and what to mix. We let X,Y,Z member explain what "PB" your talking about Via another thread link.

How about something more direct .. like this .. If you want to use the "PB" term.

Q. I have some stress cracks and would like to know what is the best way to repair.
A. You should use some PB ( resin mixed with cabosil and possibly some csm ) depending on how extensive the cracks are.

Q. Im ready to glass in my stringers now .. what else should use to help in the glassing process.
(A. You should have already done your homework and know what you need . Im kidding now )
A. You should apply some PB fillets making radi between your stringers and hull. Depending on the size and length of the stringers you could use cabosil and resin or a fairing filler like micro bubbles ).

As you can see there is more information in the second like of questions and answers than the first. I think being a little more specific about what kind of PB will help the question rather than possibly creating more questions about PB.

Continued use the term PB is fine IMHO .. but it might be better if you Explain what components go into said PB if your going to use it. We all know its a filler of some kind .. but What PB is on your mind when suggesting it.

As of right now .. I can not tell you what PB is exactly. I know its a filler of some kind .. I know its thick .. but what IS pb ? What goes into it ?

Do you see my point now ?

Peace.

YD.

You see Frisco .. Im not trying to eliminate the term .. nor am I trying to put down those that use the term.

I am trying to help those that do not completely understand the term. If you understand it then great. If You understand why someone suggests PB and what it is then thats good.

Some of our other members do not understand what PB is nor its applications.

If I read something that has PB in it in a thread .. I know Exactly What PB is being talked about ( no its not one mix cure-all creation ). I know the consistancy .. I know what filler products are being used .. I know.

If anyone is being offended with my thread .. then you have the wrong Idea.

If I can not help any particular member out then I am grateful. ( they already know then ).

If I can help a few other new members or boaters out .. then I think a few hours of my time is worth it .

Please !! Any member here on Iboats .. do not take this thread Personally !! It was not directed at Anyone in particular other than those that want a little more insight/grasp on what PB is or Could be.

If I am not more fluent in my description or intention then I Truly Apologize.

Peace out.

YD.

PS. I actually thought I maintained fairly well in this thread .

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: PB Explained

Not getting in this after some thought.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: PB Explained

Not getting in this after some thought.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: PB Explained

Not getting in this after some thought.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: PB Explained

Outback, I think I have a decent amount of experience at what I do, and from what I have seen here, alot of "professionals" tend to be sarcastic and condescending when they give answers. So I try to present it in a "DIY" atmosphere and take the fear out of boat repair.

I respect you for that and I for one enjoy reading and watching your videos. You do some fine work and help alot of people get started and show they can do it. I guess in reference to professionals , I had around 10 years experience spraying gelcoat and running a chopper but I would be the first to stand up and say I have no experience in fiberglass repair work. But the guy running around doing shotty work at a boat yard is not a professional in my books. A person who just grabs the first person to do a job who says they are a professional makes it look bad for all professionals in the trade A professional must have a reputation and show his prior work. As for my brother in law he could say he was a professional and most likely do the work he works with fiberglass on automobiles. But he is a true professional because he would not even give any opinions and I respected that. I actually have family that builds fishing boats for the grand banks off newfoundland too .

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: PB Explained

The point of this forum is to help each other out, and share ideas.

Yes .. I agree .. but ( and I will not quote you on your former post ) some of us are only here to help.

Why do you think I am here Frisco ?? To hamper or to help ?

You think I am here wasting my time?

I dont think other members completely agree with your DIY are better than Pros ideas .. I dont think so myself ..

I have spent Hours and Hours on ONE Subject thread .. and its NOT YOU that will tear it apart.

Should I leave the Forum ?? As I understand it from you .. its the DIYers that are better than the Pros. .. so I should just shut my mouth and leave then ?

This is a PB thread .. NOT a Pro Vs DIY thread ..

I gave consideration in this thread .. I am being NICE .. Contribute or NOT .. I will answer ALL questions.

I dont want this thread to get side railed. Its About PB and its conotations .. and Very well put I might add.

YD.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: PB Explained

Yes .. I agree .. but ( and I will not quote you on your former post ) some of us are only here to help.

Why do you think I am here Frisco ?? To hamper or to help ?

You think I am here wasting my time?

I dont think other members completely agree with your DIY are better than Pros ideas .. I dont think so myself ..

I have spent Hours and Hours on ONE Subject thread .. and its NOT YOU that will tear it apart.

Should I leave the Forum ?? As I understand it from you .. its the DIYers that are better than the Pros. .. so I should just shut my mouth and leave then ?

This is a PB thread .. NOT a Pro Vs DIY thread ..

I gave consideration in this thread .. I am being NICE .. Contribute or NOT .. I will answer ALL questions.

I dont want this thread to get side railed. Its About PB and its conotations .. and Very well put I might add.

YD.

The way that I took the first post was an attack on anyone who calls it PB. Like it was wrong, and you were the almighty god and we should call it putty.. or was it filler, not sure. To me it did not come across as a thread to help at all.

Why not start the thread asking people to post their recipes for the thickened resin (which I believe is the best description of PB), and what you use it for in different consistencies instead of saying it is wrong?

As far as pro vs DIY goes, I did not start that. I was just responding.

I will but out now.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: PB Explained

YD that is why I come to read at these forums is to read you and the other professionals advice. I read the others too to see how things are working for them. I have read a few threads today of DIY'ers taking stabs at the pros and it made my coffee taste bad. There were some harsh statements made today and I hope the Pro don't pack up and run, but I know he only speaks for himself. I hope the rest of the DIY people don't have that attitude. Now I can see why this forum has issues. Sorry for getting your thread off track. PLEASE take your time to make a guide on this subject.

Thanks

 

[GWPSR]

Re: PB Explained

I was really hoping this would have been a thread that explained what PB/filler/pooky/doodoo was (for those who haven't picked it up elsewhere), a variety of recipes supplied by the pro's, beginners, and DIY'ers who have done it enough to be getting really good at it.

It'd have been nice to see the differences between poly and epoxy PB recipes, mixing methods, the pros and cons of various fillers and which types work best for which purposes. Even a post that explains which terms are synonymous and which are subtly different things (like mud or mayo)

It still could be, but it's already page 3, and the signal to noise ratio has been poor so far. (On everyone's part)

If we can start over and have (constructive) contributions from our smartest and best looking members (Yes, I'm talking about you. Yes, you - on the left.) maybe the good stuff can be copied out to a new thread without the non-helpful, er ... filler.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: PB Explained

I was really hoping this would have been a thread that explained what PB/filler/pooky/doodoo was (for those who haven't picked it up elsewhere), a variety of recipes supplied by the pro's, beginners, and DIY'ers who have done it enough to be getting really good at it.

I was hoping for a little less on this thread .. and more on the threads that ask questions.

Sure I could do a PB,mayo,mud etc mixers Thread .. but why not insert the appropriate Mix to the question involved ? ..

It'd have been nice to see the differences between poly and epoxy PB recipes, mixing methods, the pros and cons of various fillers and which types work best for which purposes. Even a post that explains which terms are synonymous and which are subtly different things (like mud or mayo)

It still could be, but it's already page 3, and the signal to noise ratio has been poor so far. (On everyone's part)

Ok ..not me though .. I have given step by step with pics .. but some of you dont look . http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...tress-cracks-diy-step-step-w-pics-320724.html

If we can start over and have (constructive) contributions from our smartest and best looking members (Yes, I'm talking about you. Yes, you - on the left.) maybe the good stuff can be copied out to a new thread without the non-helpful, er ... filler.

Again .. what Filler do you want do use ? is it PB.

OK .. I understand that PB=Cabosil+resin+( possible chopped up glass ) ?

Other mixes are used for a Fairing compound ( Resin and micro balloons ) ..

I was going to do another thread about Mixing. .. but why ? Most of you guys need cabosil and resin.

If you are going to try to Fair out a Hull surface .. then you should already know what compound you should use.

I am trying to help . but Im not going to write a book for you . ..

In your build you will get that answer I hope .. If not then your looking in the wrong place.

YD.

 

[secondchance22107]

Re: PB Explained

ok i will be the first to ask since i am fixing to fair out a bottom on a sailboat...........what is the correct mixture for fairing and why....i will be using polyester but i may use epoxy in the future so both would be a great start ............thanks LeRoy

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: PB Explained

ok i will be the first to ask since i am fixing to fair out a bottom on a sailboat...........what is the correct mixture for fairing and why....i will be using polyester but i may use epoxy in the future so both would be a great start ............thanks LeRoy

It probably would be best to start a thread for your project that includes pictures and what end product your going to be using as a top coat .

IMO sometimes you need to glass .. then use a fairing compound ( such as micro balloons and resin ). Sometimes its best if you could just fair out the surface that your working without any putty.

Its a project by project question.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: PB Explained

To quicky reply on what mixes are typically used for .. I would suggest looking into these products. ..

Micro Balloons. ( poly or epoxy mixed ) This additive is Normally used for a Fairing compound that is easily sanded. It can also be used as a Stringer/Bulkhead fillet prior to glass tabbing. This is NOT recommended to be used in any kind of glue mix. ( The consistency can be anything from Mayo or Icing to PB depending on the application )

Cabosil. ( poly or epoxy mixed ) This additive cures Very hard. In and of itself is brittle in thick build ups. Applications vary depending on the base resin its mixed with. Polyester mixed with cabosil can be used as a filler for small blister repairs or mixed with gelcoat to make a Patch Paste for small repairs in which spraying is not desirable ( cabosil will not normally have any affect on the gelcoat's color ). Epoxy mixed with cabosil can be used as a thin bond material. The amount of cabosil should be used carefully when mixing with Epoxy. ( The consistency can be anything from Mayo or Icing to PB depending on the application. However its normally in the Mayo range. )

Cabosil can also be added to a mix of polyester and chopped glass used more for Structural Filler/Putty. Typical applications of this mix is for stress cracks, external radi shaping ( such as strakes/chines/corner repairs ). Its use should be used wisely. Not a fairing compound unless your substrate is Fiberglass. ( The consistency can be anything from Mayo or Icing to PB depending on the application. Typically this mix is the consistency of a light PB range. )

Fiberglass Mat ( Chopped Strand Mat .. CSM ). Although not considered a Filler I suggest it should be used as one more often than not. Its structural properties add to both build up and bonding. IF your going to be applying more than 1/8" of filler/putty .. then I might suggest using some scrap mat and resin to do your fills.

Fiberglass Mat and resin actually takes less time and materials to apply and IMHO is stronger/more lasting than a filler of any kind when trying to fair out small spots ( depending on how far you are in your Fairing process ). Sure you can mix up another batch of filler ... but in that time I have already lammed some CSM in those locations ( your going to have to fair out anyways ) ..

Glazing Putty. ( AKA Bon*o or other skim putties ). These products should be used as a small hole filler prior to your top coat or primer coat. They should not be used to fill anything deeper than your gelcoat. .. depending on how you are going to finish the surface it might not be needed.

Remember that Epoxy and Poly has a problem working together. Not each is own .. but each one has problems with the undercoatings of another. Its not exclusive to poly over epoxy alone .. sometimes epoxy has a problem with the undercoatings its applied to .. ( I dont want to get into that right now ).

As requested ..I hope this helps some members here ..

YD.

 

[snowman48047]

Re: PB Explained

Can you add PB to that list so I know what it is? :facepalm:

Kidding.