Prostate!

[robert graham]

I would welcome anyone's real world experiences on this subject. I just turned 69 and retired, during my yearly physical my Doctor says my PSA is at "4", I do get up to pee a couple of times per night, otherwise I'm very healthy, take no prescription drugs, don't smoke, etc...just real darn healthy! My Doctor wants me to see a Urologist for a Prostate Biopsy. My biggest problem here is that all the medical information about Prostate screening, cancer, death, etc. is conflicting, debatable,"not really sure", etc., etc. Some sources even recommend against the PSA screening since "it causes so much worry and not necessary testing, treatments, surgeries, procedures, etc." My appointment is Jan. 8th and I plan to be there, but would welcome anyone's:confused thoughts or experiences on this! Thanks, guys!

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Prostate!

If it was real serious.....you would be seeing a specialist next week!! Don't over worry it and just see the Dr in January. With the way medical insurance companies operate today you are always referred where in the "old days" a regular GP would have handled it.

DO NOT self diagnose over the internet....... it will just drive you nuts and then you will need a referral to a shrink!

BTW 4 is the lowest side of trouble and for all you know that could have been that way for a long time.

 

[minuteman62-64]

Re: Prostate!

I've had an elevated psa for about 15 years now - way higher than 4.

The psa is just an indicator that there may be a problem. Consult with the urologist and follow his (her?) advice. You may even have a prostate biopsy, which is designed to determine if there is are any malignancies. If you have a problem be happy you had an early indication. If you don't have a problem be happy you are OK. Don't spend a lot of time worrying between now and the 8'th.

As you've found out, there is a lot unknown about prostate cancer and other prostate issues. One thing that is known is that prostate cancers are slow growing - getting on top of a potential problem early is the way to go.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Prostate!

A childhood friend was a very healthy 54 years old when he was diagnosed with prostate cancer 10 months ago. They are praying they do not have to move him to hospice during the holidays

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Prostate!

Most suffer and die from the effects/affects of treatment, faster than if left alone. Doc's don't make money leaving you alone. Seek alternative/non conventional remedy.

 

[Outsider]

Re: Prostate!

A '4', in and of itself isn't problematic, it's when it goes from '4' to '14' that a real problem is indicated.


Most suffer and die from the effects/affects of treatment, faster than if left alone.

Pretty much sums up that position ...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Prostate!

I am 54 and had my physical yesterday. My MD has stopped doing the PSA or the finger test. Basically, studies have shown that survival rates are not getting any better by having men get biopsies at the first sign of elevated PSAs.

10 years ago I had an elevated PSA and had a biopsy done. Worst experience of my life. I tested at a 4, had a negative biopsy and 6 months later I was below 1. There is a problem even with the biopsies in that they do random samples and the liklihood of even sampling a cancerous tissue is unlikely. If I had to do it over again, I would refuse to do the biopsy. After resaearching this subject more, I am not in the camp of "better safe than sorry".

This is an interesting article that I actually read today before seeing this post:
http://urology.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=547
An alternative to the old types of biopsy.

I wouldn't worry about it unless you are having other prostate issues like problem urinating. My father has had a PSA level of 14 for the past 20 years. He is now 84. He may have some prostate cancer like almost every other 80 year old but he will die from something else.

Robert, you can PM me if you would like to hear more about my experience.

My friend's wife is a research MD at UCLA with her specialty in prostate cancer. She is another MD that is against the PSA screening.

 

[robert graham]

Re: Prostate!

If it was real serious.....you would be seeing a specialist next week!! Don't over worry it and just see the Dr in January. With the way medical insurance companies operate today you are always referred where in the "old days" a regular GP would have handled it.

DO NOT self diagnose over the internet....... it will just drive you nuts and then you will need a referral to a shrink!

BTW 4 is the lowest side of trouble and for all you know that could have been that way for a long time.

Thanks for the feedback Bob!...Seems this prostate thing is as endlessly debatable as say, outboard motor oils and greases!..But seriously, for a guy who's enjoyed a lifetime of excellent health, I really jumped when they said, "we better check this out!"....having just retired, I'd really prefer not to start having parts fall off! Thanks Again!

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Prostate!

A '4', in and of itself isn't problematic, it's when it goes from '4' to '14' that a real problem is indicated.


Most suffer and die from the effects/affects of treatment, faster than if left alone.

View attachment 176907Pretty much sums up that position ...

PM sent

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Prostate!

Most suffer and die from the effects/affects of treatment, faster than if left alone. Doc's don't make money leaving you alone. Seek alternative/non conventional remedy.

Now there's some bad advice, as a whole. Yes, a person doesn't need to go to the doctor for every ache and pain. And yes, doctors are out to make money. But, with something potentially serious and easily treatable like prostate issues, see a doctor. Please don't send me a pm, I stand by my position.......

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Prostate!

If one test turns up as a 4 where all the previous tests were normal below 1, I would not be getting a biopsy at a urologist until I waited 6 months and had another test. Prostate cancer is a very slow progressing cancer and the PSA test can be affected by so many things....one of the reasons doctors are going away from the PSA completely.

 

[JB]

Re: Prostate!

Acute BPH can be more troublesome than prostate cancer. The correct treatment for either is far, far advanced over what I had done in 1997 (TURP).

Forget popular mythology and obsolete technology and pay close attention to your urologist. Those guys can do today what was not dreamed of 15 years ago.

Guys who die of prostate cancer today either paid no attention or thought they were smarter than the pros.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Prostate!

Forget popular mythology and obsolete technology and pay close attention to your urologist. Those guys can do today what was not dreamed of 15 years ago.

Problem is that most urologists are doing the same procedures done in the 80s.

If were to ever get another biopsy done, it would be at UCLA with the link I referenced earlier.

Getting your colon pierced multiple times to grab the samples does have its risks and any way to reduce that from happening is a good thing. There are so many other bad things that can happen from the biopsy itself that it should be avoided if possible.


Interesting read on the value of PSA testing(from the Pros):
http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/prostatecancerscreening/prostatefinalrs.htm

The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) recommends against prostate-specific antigen (PSA)-based screening for prostate cancer

 

[JRJ]

Re: Prostate!

My last PSA was 10.8. My Dr. biopsied 13 spots and much to my relief, no cancer. Good luck.

 

[ezbtr]

Re: Prostate!

My last PSA was 10.8. My Dr. biopsied 13 spots and much to my relief, no cancer. Good luck.

some great advice here guys!! I had one attack of prostatitis(so docs say) about a yr ago, been taking pills for it - but no reoccrences since, wondering if I can stop takin pills?

 

[robert graham]

Re: Prostate!

Just seems to be so many different thoughts and controversies on the subject of prostate,PSA, cancer, tests, treatments, etc....I'll admit to being confused by this whole thing! I still plan to at least visit with the urologist but not sure about this biopsy business...my PSA is just 4, and I'm not really having other problems other than peeing several times a night...but I do like to drink tea and water while I watch TV...so why wouldn't I have to pee?....Thanks for all your thoughts, ideas and advice!

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Prostate!

It doesn't hurt to do a little research so you can develop a list of questions to ask the urologist. And don't hesitate to get a second opinion if you feel it's necessary. The embarassment of any procedure will go away rather quickly, especially if you don't share too many details. Believe me, I know :embarassed:!

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Prostate!

I'm going through this right now. My advice - Talk to the urologist and request another PSA. Do you have a history of elevated PSAs? Do you know a high PSA can be caused by less than 7 days after a night of whoopie (I think you get the idea).

I had an elevated PSA, family Doc referred me to a urologist, another PSA, still high. Took a course of antibiotics and another high test but it dropped some. All results were less than 8. All the finger waves were normal according to all the Docs, although I questioned how they determined that with a total digital exam time of less than one second for all three, average of 1/3 of a second! . I had the biopsy, not the most pleasant thing to do, but not painful. Cancer was found in four of twelve samples and one had a Gleason of seven. Next step was referral to an oncologist and he recommended radiation therapy for seven to nine weeks. I respectfully suggested that he must be in the market for a new Mercedes.

I have two Docs in my family and I talked with them and I have decided to follow "active surveillance". Get periodic PSA tests and if warranted, follow up biopsy. I may still get active treatment but it will be when I decide it's needed. Yes prostate kills but in most cases smoking (50+ years for me) or breathing epoxy/paint fumes will do you in faster. Personally I don't like any of the common treatment methods, external beam radiation and surgery. Seeds are OK if the limits are still OK.

The Mayo Clinic and WebMD are good sources of information, not for self-diagnosis - the mouse is too big too get up there. Just Google and you can find them. You do have to be well informed and get second or even third opinions. In fact the Mayo Clinic offers a second opinion service to read biopsy results for a price.

It's a matter of concern but nothing to fear, Doctors do like to scare you in my opinion. Ask a lot of questions and ask until you are satisfied. It seemed to me that the more I asked based on knowledge, the more they shared with me. It started of as lets make your jewels glow in the dark and I kept asking why and what else..

Sorry for this long winded yakety - yak. Bob - PM if you want to talk about this.

 

[achris]

Re: Prostate!

A close friend was diagnosed about 18 years ago (just as we started a business together :facepalm. As he was quite young (48) the decision was to attack it aggressively (surgery and radiation). He's been 'clear' for over 15 years now.

However.... He was told by the urologist, that had he been 15 years older, they would have adopted a watch and see strategy. In his (urologist) opinion, more men die WITH prostate cancer than of it. He even went as far as to say that 'treating' prostate cancer in older men would more likely make matters worst than better.....

I'm 52, and should the day come and I'm diagnosed with prostate cancer (and over about 60), then it will be a watch and monitor strategy for me....

By all means, get more testing done, but think (and talk to specialists) before making any treatment plans...

Chris.....

 

[lakelover]

Re: Prostate!

robert, I'm 57, and have regular blood tests every 6 months. Also quite healthy, and see the doc only twice a year for blood tests and general followup. He does the PSA test each time, but only to follow its trends. He told me he doesn't do the DRE (digital rectal exam) any more because it too is very unreliable, and he doesn't even consider it worth the discomfort it causes. He's a guy who really stays on top of the latest research too.

I don't want to offer you medical advice, but my tendancy would be to take a very conservative approach to any invasive prodecure, and follow the PSA level & monitor over time. I wouldn't jump if it was borderline high once, many things affect the level in the short term. A messed up procedure by a hung over technician at the lab can also account for a sudden change in the value of any blood test. (Any medical diagnostic procedure can be messed up big time--a cardiologist practically had me on the heart valve replacement table a few years ago on the result of one screwed up echocardiogram. Result: monitored rigorously for the last several years with no change from "normal" except for that one time! And I thought it seemed that the echo tech didn't really seem know what she was doing. Fumbled around a lot. Glad I fought back on that one!!) And as far as your getting up a couple times a night, that in itself is no big deal, I've been doing that for the last 20 or more years. I'm just well-hydrated like you.

I think GA has some good advice there.