Question about hours.

25thmustang

Lieutenant Commander
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1,849
Re: Question about hours.

In my latest search for boats I have been trying to keep an eye on motors under 1000 hours. You can't just stick a blanket number on motor hours and how they will hold up, but it's a way to help narrow down the search for me.
 

The Famous Grouse

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 26, 2008
Messages
291
Re: Question about hours.

You may also be looking at a boat with a recently replaced hour meter....just sayin'.

Good point to bring up.

An hour meter is nothing like an odometer on a car. There are no legal teeth behind messing with an hour meter, nor are they built to be tamper-resistant. They can be disconnected, connected, reset, or replaced at any point.

I think the best way to look at an what an hour meter really can tell you is to look at how it's done in aviation. There are two factors of concern with a aircraft:

1. Hours on the engine or hours "SMOH" (Since Major Overhaul). This deals with the condition of the engine and how much use (and therefore wear) it has undgone since it was new or since it was overhauled. An hour meter on a boat CAN give you some information on this question.

2. Age of the airframe itself. Or in boat terms, how much has the hull been used and how has it been treated? Was it used for the occasional Sunday cruise only on calm days and then stored out of the sun, on a trailer, in a shed, or was it owned by an offshore fishing nut who's personal motto reads "Drive fast, drive hard, take no prisioners, and always be home for dinner." An hour meter on a boat tells you nothing about this factor of how was the boat used, treated, and stored. With an aircraft, you may be able to piece this picture together from the logs. With a boat, you're totally on your own and you have to rely on factors like visible wear, statements from the owner, a marine survey, etc.

Grouse
 

Lakes84

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
253
Re: Question about hours.

Like others have said, it's all in the maintenance. I just bought a 87 Sport Craft 210. The motor has 404 hours on it. While the marina in Florida was checking it, they said it was the best looking and cleanest motor from the 80's they had ever seen (4.3 Cobra/outdrive with all applicable updates, 5.0 gears and shift cable). After a good tune up (sitting for 2 years) it purrs like a kitten and easily planes out. I have all of the maint records of this boat since new...sometimes you just get lucky.


See you on the lake

Joe
 

Home Cookin'

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May 26, 2009
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9,715
Re: Question about hours.

Now, I don't know anything about inboards. But with outboards, they need to be run. When I look in the Yamaha manual and see on the maintenance schedule a column for "one year/100 hours" it tells me the manufacturer expects the typical use to be 100 hrs/year.

Our hunt club wore out a motor (OB) due to an underpitched prop. The mechanic said ours looked like the "commercial use" motors that last 2 years, at about 2000 a year I reckon. So as a buyer, I'd not want a 500+ per year motor, and maybe not a 3000 hour motor, either.

Like cats and cars, once they make it past a certain age, they last forever, so sometimes a real old motor running nicely is better than a middle-aged motor.

Since boats and their motors are better off being used, I would not touch a "low milage" boat (10 hours a year) because they are either lying or neglecting. An exception would be if they have a reasonable reliable explanation. And if it's a salt water boat (and maybe a hard winter boat, too, not my thing) they go to pieces sitting still, like how some women get road ugly on a long car ride.

So basically, except for extreme high use, high hours are not a problem, low hours can be, and middle range are irrelevant.
 

rallyart

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Jun 7, 2008
Messages
1,186
Re: Question about hours.

I'm not sure it every occurred to me I could sell a boat. My first I/O has over 3000 hours on a 470 Merc. I've still got it but it hasn't been used since 2007 when I go my inboard. It's got 380 hours (did not get to go out for long this season) and it sure does not seem like many hours.
Ski and wakeboard school boats might have 1-2000 hours but they are maintained really well, usually. I would look at one of those boats. I think I would be more cautious of a 10 year old boat with 50 hours than one with 500 hours.
 

kemer1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
122
Re: Question about hours.

Thanks for all the opinions and personal experiences fellas. The 11 year old boat with 97 hours is at a dealer so I can't see what service history it has. But the boat looks to be in immaculate condition. My 2 back up boats are both local to me and are for sale by owner boats. One is a 94 and the other two are 95s, one owner and kept under a shelter when not in use. Pictures look awesome on all of them, but haven't had a chance to go look at them in person.

So am I gathering that I should maybe move one of the private owner boats into the #1 position and just let that 11 year old 97 hour boat go? Because 9 hours per year is a little suspect?
 

smokeonthewater

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Dec 3, 2009
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9,838
Re: Question about hours.

No you should stop worrying about the hours... they are ALL low.... do a compression test and sea trial.... Look for maintenance records.... A well maintained boat may have no records but a boat with records showing that it was well maintained is a no brainer... look at EVERYTHING else and THEN decide which boat is your first choice....

Personally the low hours don't bother me but buying used from a dealer gives me chills.... You are pretty much guaranteed to pay top dollar and they have you sign all the right paperwork to cover THEIR butt leaving you without a leg to stand on.... At least if a private party pulls one over on you you have a fighting chance in court.
 

mr 88

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2,219
Re: Question about hours.

One thing about a marine engine that I have not seen mentioned is the load.Pushing a 2-3+ ton boat through the water ain't exactly like rolling down the highway with a total of 80sq" of rubber making contact.More like pulling your boat up a steeply grade hill.A engine will lose compression as well as all other tolerances over time,not that they will grenade but they will not run like new,things just wear out over time.1500-2500 hours and a rebuild is in most people forecast.Just because a motor has low hours and is older does not mean it was not used for a reason.Some people buy boats to socialize on and don't put a lot of time on it.On the other hand a charter boat will have a ton of hours on it and always maintained,I would never buy one because of the trolling hours and constant use.As noted a compression test is step one and hopefully the hour meter are original and never tampered with.
Yeah this is very important math and get's to the heart of it. The only thing I would suggest when considering this comparison is that most cars only average around 25 MPH ;) So that would be 2000 hours equals 50,000 miles.
 

JimS123

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8,235
Re: Question about hours.

Personally the low hours don't bother me but buying used from a dealer gives me chills.... You are pretty much guaranteed to pay top dollar and they have you sign all the right paperwork to cover THEIR butt leaving you without a leg to stand on.... At least if a private party pulls one over on you you have a fighting chance in court.

Funny, I look at it just the opposite. I would'nt buy from an individual.

If the dealer's price is too high - negotiate. If he won't, walk away. There are lots of dealers out there. If you do buy from a dealer you have a warranty (if not walk away again). Its in his best interest to take care of you after the sale if he wants to stay in business. If he's got a bad rep to begin with....walk away.

On the other hand, the individual could'nt care less about you. Sure, take him to court. Collecting is another story. Pay a lawyer and you're out that expense as well. Go to Small Claims court and even if you win its not enforcable if the guy has no money.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Question about hours.

True.... for me tho I buy stuff for less than 1/4 of what a dealer would charge.... no warranty available on 20 plus year old stuff either.... I spose if a person had more nickels to rub together than I do the dealer might be more of an option...
 

kemer1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: Question about hours.

I've been emailing this particular dealer for a couple weeks now with questions etc. and here's the skinny on all of this. They don't do warranties on boats that are over 10 years old. As far as service history goes...no clue, hell he wont even tell me if they changed the engine oil when they inspected it. Just gave a general "our techs have gone through the boat and if it needed the oil changed then they did it. The boat is priced about $4000 over NADA as well so not sure what to make of that. In any case I'm having a hard time justifying paying a premium if I'm not really getting anything in return. Plus they're 200 miles from my house. I think I'll be switching focus on the local private sale stuff.
 

Silverbullet555

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621
Re: Question about hours.

I've been emailing this particular dealer for a couple weeks now with questions etc. and here's the skinny on all of this. They don't do warranties on boats that are over 10 years old. As far as service history goes...no clue, hell he wont even tell me if they changed the engine oil when they inspected it. Just gave a general "our techs have gone through the boat and if it needed the oil changed then they did it. The boat is priced about $4000 over NADA as well so not sure what to make of that. In any case I'm having a hard time justifying paying a premium if I'm not really getting anything in return. Plus they're 200 miles from my house. I think I'll be switching focus on the local private sale stuff.

Remember, this is a buyers market for boats. If it is the right boat then pricing needs to come down. I would be weary about the maintenance records. Without them it leaves a lot of questions. If he won't tell you if the oil has been changed, tell him when he finds out to call you. That's a crap answer. I wouldn't be paying a premium just based on the hours. In this market, paying a premium is probably still not paying 4K over NADA.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Question about hours.

In my experience boats are NOT a "you get what you pay for" thing.... I'll take a 20 year old clean solid boat in good running condition for $4,000 over a 6 yr old in the same condition for $20,000 any day

The biggest difficulty is that with the older stuff you have to work MUCH harder finding and checking them out..... Instead of looking at 3 and buying the best deal you may look at 50 and consider 45 to be junk....
 

kemer1

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Sep 13, 2011
Messages
122
Re: Question about hours.

I'm well aware of it being a buyer's market right now, and as we get further into the fall my leverage will get stronger. My thing is that the dealer I'm talking with is apparently not taking me seriously. I asked a load of questions since I don't think I'm going to drive 4 hours for a boat that isn't what I'm looking for. 3 days ago I told him to give me a quote on the boat and to see about where negotiating will get me. But I have yet to get anything back from him. This is the second time he's done this. At this point I've had enough games. The boat they have is a 2000 Reinell 200L with a 5.0 Volvo and 97 hours.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2000-Reinell-200-L-99818054

The other one is a 95 Sea Ray 240 Select with 305 hours 454 and Bravo3. Definitely more in line with book values and is a 1 owner boat with all services done.
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/2620445559.html

And this one is more of a pipe dream as my truck is a bit too small to tow it, but for the price it's very very tempting...
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/2624674332.html

This one is very very tempting, but I really want a bowrider, so it's a bit of a internal battle.
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/2622753015.html

So out of all those...which would you guys go to check out first?
 

mr 88

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Re: Question about hours.

I would blow off the dealer,period,so there goes #1..If I was married and had kids I would go with #3.Single and a player #4.Semi married and just want to do day trips and watersports #2. It really depends on what you want to do and your social circle.#3 you will grow into and is a great overnighter with plenty of amenities,may want to dock it .
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Question about hours.

the sundancer..... hands down winner in my book.... that's a nice boat... If you like that, spend another $1500 on a beat up old truck or find a buddy with one you can borrow....

EDIT: forget the sundancer.... it's a scam.... I was thinking it was a REALLY cheap price for that boat and then I just happened to look over my local C/L as I do at least once a day.... Found this....http://louisville.craigslist.org/boa/2629339565.html
 

southkogs

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14,969
Re: Question about hours.

EDIT: forget the sundancer.... it's a scam.... I was thinking it was a REALLY cheap price for that boat and then I just happened to look over my local C/L as I do at least once a day.... Found this....http://louisville.craigslist.org/boa/2629339565.html

Good catch - what a drag though. I got pretty excited on that one for a minute.

Take a good look at the Sea Ray, but I'd be trying to get the price down a little. The Reinell is good looking, and might be a good buy, but if you're not crazy about the dealer there's other ones out there.
 
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