Rebuild or Repower

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

quick check on ebay shows that there is a poor selection of engines available. sellers market. you'll probably not be able to find a good motor for $500ish until everybody has their boats running for summer.<br /><br />here's an old johnie in raleigh<br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ4637685327 <br /><br />and here's some others in your area<br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ4636786421 <br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ4636352535 <br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ4637509008 <br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ4636885266 <br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ4637493475 <br /><br />here's a chrysler vintage 85hp that looks in good shape, but kind of pricey for one that doesn't have TnT<br />http://www.boats.com/engines/engine_details.jsp?engine_id=11954&back=%2Fengines%2Fengine_search_results.jsp%3Fet%3D100%26nu%3D%26mk%3Dforce%26pwf%3D%26pwt%3D%26pcf%3D%26pct%3D5000% 26ft%3D101%26ac%3D%26stp%3D%26Search.x%3D46%26Search.y%3D5

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

if you are into driving and the stated compression is correct, then this one is going to a cheap and reliable engine for somebody. You could easily find good used ignition off ebay for under $100. throw a day into impellers, seals, and dressing it out. if salt water then spend a few hours replacing pivot shaft with a 1.125" x 14.5" solid aluminum rod (then your steering won't get stiff if you neglect to wash off engine every now and then). In the end it looks like a $250 out of pocket engine and two days spent fixing it up and painting it. They look really sharp with a deep blue metallic like PPG omni MAE5486A. Takes one pint per engine. lay down a coat of epoxy based primer and you'll have one sharp looking, strong running motor.<br /><br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ4636226528 <br /><br />plus, it's a chrysler - so if the comp #'s are accurate it should have many years left in it.

 

[imported_LakeRunner]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

Just happen to have a can of Bayliner Blue! Matches my boat. Oh, but no TnT. Can't go laking without TnT!

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

TnT's no biggie. <br />If you are clever and industrious it runs about $200-$250 per engine. I can also tell you where to get factory new for $400. problem with the factory liquidation is that it might have 10-12 year old o-rings. even if you got new, it would still be wise to spring the extra $15 for all new rubber.<br /><br />I can also tell you how to make your own manual tilt for $3.50 per engine. personally, i like the manual tilt. It's way easy to lift the engine by hand (for servicing) and it goes a good 12" higher. but the big thing is saving my impellers. running aground on sandbars is a major problem down here. The saying is "two kinds of boaters. those who run aground and those who don't go out". manual tilt with zip-ties for reverse lock break off more quickly and the engine pops up faster. result = almost no sand in impeller.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

(actually, come to think of it ... I have a pair of TnT systems with no particular purpose in life). put them on. never used them except to lift engines when beaching boat for a family afternoon. boat rides smoothest thru chop at 32mph with trim fully down. its easier to just leave it like that than to keep adjusting for chop. one starting bleeding down so took them off to rebuild. now they're fully rebuilt but not worth putting back on boat.

 

[imported_LakeRunner]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

Sand bars usually aren't to much of a problem on the lake but tree stumps and hydrilla are. I've chewed a prop or two. I've learned to better navigate when in unfamiliar waters by watching for the signs. If you can see bottom, slow down and look around and fell your way out. Impellers are cheap compared to replacing a busted prop or skeg.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

I bet you could put a manatee guard on your engine and cut your stump worries in half.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

i jusy got an email from the dude with the old chrysler. he's still got it. if you have a way to get to the fla/ala border region then it might be your ticket. just make sure that it's not a pile of seized bolts or has some other lurking issue with the powerhead or motor leg. you could probably part out your 70 for more money that it would cost you fix up the 120. being a florida boat, the guy could have used it in saltwater without keeping it clean or checking the anode. everything for that motor can be bought dirt cheap from lower units to carbs to stators to ignition systems.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

Lake Runner,<br />I understand what you mean. I bought my Bayliner when I was 21, had it for 9 years and she still does me great. Just had her out this past Sat at Falls lake, and it was a blast. It was running good, not as fast as I would like, but I will be calling the Mechanic about this, and probing if they untweaked, anything I had tweaked, lol. I had it up to 5k rpms before, now it would only pull about 4200 and about 38mph.<br /><br />It is also possible for him to have an Engine out there at his shop, he may want to sell. I know that he always has parts all over the place. Give him a call, not to far from the Lake. It might only bee about 8-10 miles down HWY 98 Past HWY50, towards Durham. So its really not that far from anywhere in Raleigh.<br /><br />Hope you can get it back and running.<br /><br />I wish that I had a Searay 290, thats a bad boat.<br /><br />Later,<br />Bryan

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

Rritt,<br />Sorry Missed your post about the Reeds. I spent I think, $130 on the part they have listed on their site. This came with everything needed for my Force 125HP Engine. So its one price for the Kit. Go to http://shop.boyesen.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=6&osCsid=a6a85bf872eaca10d114a21318c9f334 type in the Search on the Right your engine, such as I typed in Force 125, and it came up with the parts for the Force 125HP.<br /><br />I do love them though, it allows that engine to jerk my 200lb self out of the water on the wakeboard.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Bryan

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

I just had a very interesting conversation with the local parts shop. They are the primary source of parts for omc/merc/suzuki/yamaha in a city of 120,000 and have been for decades. They also own a shop but don't push it anymore because most of the other mechanics buy their parts from them. They still retain their small town family business atmosphere from 20 years ago. A wooden bench out front with a jonboat and an alligator snare would fit right in.<br /><br />so i mention the reed valves. <br /><br />she says "yeah, mercury changed them. there was a service bulletin about that".<br /><br />I say "you mean if somebody blows out a powerhead because of reed valves they can get a free replacement?"<br /><br />she says "no, not anymore"<br /><br />I say "it seems like a lot of people are blowing out powerheads because of those reeds"<br /><br />She say "yeah, it happens a lot."<br /><br />I say "what about the stators, they seem to self destruct sometime around the mid-90's"<br /><br />she says "there was a service bulletin about that too. all of the mercury products had that problem"<br /><br />I say "it seems like people with pre-91 engines don't have very many problems and post '91 engines are always breaking"<br /><br />then she asks "how do you know this?" (she said it in a tone like - "you aren't suppossed to know this stuff")<br /><br />I said "there's an internet forum and some of us were comparing reliability records and discussing which years broke and which years didn't"<br /><br />she said "wow, sounds like you guys are really on top of it."<br /><br />then she went into an unsolicited 2 or 3 paragraph mini-rant. I always thought she hated force engines. turns out she is very fond of chrysler. she made a distinct point of seperating chrysler from force and then started praising chrysler up one side and down the other. thinks they're one of the most reliable outboards ever made. to paraphrase - "the chryslers ran like clockwork and hardly ever needed maintenance."<br /><br />thing is, i never mentioned chrysler. I was talking about post '91 engines and she starts going off about chryslers. I wanted to ask her if her glowing opinion about chrysler included my 1988 force ... or if there was a service bulletin that I should know about. From the way she made such a harsh distinction I was half afraid to hear her answer. Maybe next time I'll ask.

 

[imported_LakeRunner]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

Funny thing, the first year of production for the Force 70 was 91 and it went out of production in 95 when they introduced the 75.

 

[imported_LakeRunner]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

Got the motor back from the machine shop. Eeewww what a mess. Number three piston looks like someone took a jack hammer to it. Crankshaft is damaged at the number three journal (hope I got the right spelling). The bearing are also shot. the reed valve has a chip in it and sizable gash in the crank housing side of the PH. The cylinder head can be bored out and honed so that is no big deal. I'm gonna need new pistons, rings, bearing, rods, etc. A new crankshaft and little bit of welding finesse. Oh and new set of reeds, may as well rebuild the fuel pump and carb while I'm at it. Two lesson I have learned from this, one is that you should never assume that if it's running, everything is OK and secondly keep the wife out of boating repair and maintenance matters!

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

(frig-it) just buy a late 80's with good compression. everybody bad mouths forces at the local marina so much that they're worth less running than as a pile of parts. <br /><br />Nobody realizes that they older they are the fewer problems they have. I had my boat at the ramp a week ago and one of the typical dissers was there. "those were built by mercury weren't they?". It had been a rough day trying to trailer a boat for the first time in my life. That was just one button too many getting pushed. <br />So I said, "NO. if they were mercuries then they wouldn't still be running".<br /><br />So anyway, buy a chrysler and sell the mercury crap to help pay for it.

 

[imported_LakeRunner]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

Found a 92' 70HP powerhead with the following compression numbers 125/122/128. Any caveats in the fitting the 92 to my 95 leg? With the motor itself?

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

'92 is still after the time when force was corrupted by darth brunswick. you may still have self-destructing stators, reed valves that are just dying to blow a powerhead, and ignitions that like to challenge you with elusive problems.<br /><br />but .... if you want to verify compatibility, then go to the parts diagrams and compare the spacer plate between engine and motor leg. If spacer plate is exact same for both years then it should be a relatively easy job.

 

[imported_LakeRunner]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

I have a brand new stator and all my power packs were blue spark before I disassemble the powerhead. I am installing Boysen reeds to fix the reed issues. As far as the ignition, bring it on! I will also rebuild the carb and the fuel pump and replace the inline filter. I checked with the parts diagram and they are the same from 91 to 95. Wooho!

 

[imported_LakeRunner]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

Having trouble trying to nail down the part number for the reeds for my Force engine. Merc list a 855952T as the match for the 95' Force 70HP. Is this correct?

 

[dcar00]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

I have a 1992 90HP Force. sounds like I am in the "zone" unfortunately.

I had the stator replaced about 5-6 years ago. had a mechanic do it since I was just learing about motors. how do I check the stator part number?

Also, I am thinking about replacing the reed valves based on this post. seems like some insurance. How would I do this?

the boysen reeds seem real expensive. Any other reeds anyone might suggest? not worried about big performance just insurance.

 

[tombocook]

Re: Rebuild or Repower

rteveans i need a stator for 1994 force 120hp thunder bolt ing if u part it out tom