Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

[chriscraft254]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

From what I can tell from the pics, which is very little. That looks like a very thin coating of gelcoat, like maybe one coat. It also looks like the plywood in the top pic may have just been resined and not fiberglassed? Looks like in the other pic it was not prepped/sanded correctly.

I can see by the vents, that the first pic is at the stern on the catwalks. Are your catwalks a seperate peice to the boat? There is a seam there, correct?

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Catwalks are separate from the boat with a seam running the length. The line you see is the engine cover. The underlay to this is cloth and what looks to be CSM or a lot of resin. Boat was redone 10 years ago. the wood on this boat is solid as a rock. I was just wondering why the fail so I dont make the same mistake, This is located on the rear of the boat. It was in a covered slip. So maybe uv and normal weathering?

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Is it gel coat or paint, or can you tell?

Either way the coating needs to be sanded off completely and the surface under it needs to be sanded thoroughly.

At this point it really doesn't matter why it failed.

I agree with ondarvr. Removing whatever is on there is needed.

Right now Im kinda thinking its epoxy with finish cloth ( I do see the finish cloth in the resin ).

I also think its some kind of "paint with some kinda of non-skid stuff" that was sprayed on.

You might be better off using a non-skid Paint instead of gelcoat if you cannot identify the resin used.

No matter what your going to be starting with a clean slate. Proper prep and you could apply anything.

Shoot us some more pics when your in the process of prepping. Remember what I suggested in the other post though..Decide first what your going to use beforehand .

YD.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Any way to tell if the resin below the white is poly or epoxy? I was told it was gel but you hear everything but money jingling and bacon frying.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Any way to tell if the resin below the white is poly or epoxy? I was told it was gel but you hear everything but money jingling and bacon frying.

I can tell Epoxy from Poly when I sand on it just from the Smell. You should be able to tell .. there is a distinct difference between the two resins.

From your first pic I am Assuming its Epoxy from the transparency over the cloth without too much distortion in the resin/wood. ( color/finish ) However there are some Poly based resins that have more Color character to epoxy.

As far as it being a Gel coating.. it does not appear that way to me.

1. The uniformity of the pattern of the nonskid ( shown on your vents ) dictates that the coating was Sprayed and Not rolled or Brushed.

2. The nonskid chunks are too big to fit through a normal Pressure pot gun. Yes there are Dump guns that can apply larger skid additives with Gel .. but its not really worth it in normal Gel spray coatings.

3. Not to say its NOT Gel .. but anyone that has that kind of experience to shoot chunks with Gel that Thin would KNOW that its Very risky without some kind of Gelcoat Base.

There are a few reasons why I think that your "top" is good and your deck is failing ..

I dont think I should go into the Whys right now..but I can say that Normally the Tops get Done first ..

$$ thing ..

It was a missed window of application or Improper prep. I can not think why your lower would fail and your top does not fail other than those 2 issues.

It could have been something to do with the PO holding back $$ .. or It could have been new guys on the job and the application was not correctly applied within its window or application.

Who knows for sure what Really went down in the application of the materials ...

Does not matter at this point .. you have your surface .. what do you want to do with it ? Your going to start over again .. Cheese out the prep and roll on some truck liner ? Gel it ? Paint it ? ..

You are Looking at a Fresh Start M8 ... You can do basically Anything you want as soon as you get it back to the Good Substrate.

What are your thoughts on this Proshade ?

YD.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Kind of leaning in going back to gel. I will have to roll it on because the marina will not allow me to spray it. I just think I will be more satisfied with gel over anything else.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Catwalks are separate from the boat with a seam running the length. The line you see is the engine cover. The underlay to this is cloth and what looks to be CSM or a lot of resin. Boat was redone 10 years ago. the wood on this boat is solid as a rock. I was just wondering why the fail so I dont make the same mistake, This is located on the rear of the boat. It was in a covered slip. So maybe uv and normal weathering?

When they redo a houseboats decks completly, most get in a rush and failers can happen for many reasons. The areas you are showing are a the stern of the boat. The nautilines just like most housboats have very poor drainage of water. They are always shedding the water constantly to the lower decks. this will cause the lower decks to get more moisture over time than the rest. Also lower decks usually have more traffick on them. The framing structures on houseboats are notoriously bad, they flex alot which can cause failures also. Nautilines were very well build compared to others like gibsons of the same time period. Also the engine covers are notorious for holding water around the drain channels ect.

Are your decks incapsulated or is the plywood bare underneath. The reason I ask, is I see this all the time, if the ply is not incapsulated, it is constantly allowing moisture from underneath to be pulled into the wood. This can make the decks fail or delaminate no matter what was used on the finish.

You do need to find out what was used on the decks before applying anything to it. Don't know if it is an option, but maybe contact the previous owners and find out who did the work. More than likely, if it is like my area, the boat was done at one of 3 or 4 local marinas. If you can track down who did the work, they will remember the boat and will probably know what they used to do the decks. As you probably already know, people will recognize your boat and ask if that was so and so's old boat.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Since it was re-done 10 years ago the problem may have to do with the type of resin used and how long they waited before applying the finish coat, or if there wax in the resin. Either way sanding it thoroughly with coarse grit (36 or so) will fix that.

If the resin was a general purpose blend (very common) it would have a high DCPD content, DCPD resins aren’t as air inhibited as other types, so they cure very well on the surface even without wax. With this type of resin if you want to apply another layer it needs to be done before the surface cures tack free, which can happen rapidly in the sun. If it cures to a tack free finish it needs to be sanded very well for a good bond. This type of resin was not as common when the boat was first built.

There may have been wax in the resin whether they wanted it or not, depending on what they got and who they bought it from, it may not be labeled as having wax in it. Or if they did a poor job of trying the remove the wax the bond will be weak.

It’s good to have the surface tacky when you go to apply the next layer, it means you’ll get a chemical bond, which is better than a mechanical bond. Walking on tacky resin or gel coat is easy and won’t leave dirty foot prints if you tape a large Zip Lock freezer bag (many types of plastic work) over your foot.

Another problem you can run into is not having the gel coat cure tack free on the final layer. This can happen when you use wax and the sun is shinning on the surface being coated. The wax needs to float the surface to seal the gel coat, this doesn’t always happen if the sun is hitting the surface, so try to shield it from direct sunlight.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

One other reason for it to peel off is if the coating isn't gel coat. If you try to apply some coatings over an unsanded laminate the uncured tacky surface forms a weak layer between the coating and the laminate which eventually fails.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Kind of leaning in going back to gel. I will have to roll it on because the marina will not allow me to spray it. I just think I will be more satisfied with gel over anything else.

60-80 grit sanding profile would be good for your gel basecoat.

Do you plan on putting down a few layers of gel first...then resand ..then apply the non skid ? Or are you thinking of trying to do all the coatings at one time ?

Oh..and if possible can you give us an over all shot of the largest surface ...

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

I would follow YD's advise on this and make sure it's not epoxy.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Still waiting for the boat to be picked up and the bottom done. Getting the run around. Its bad when you are paying to have a job done and cant get them in gear. When it arrives or I have to go back up I will get those pics. My plan was 1 base coat rolled on. Roll next coat with nonskid last coat sealed with wax. This will be all white as I do not even plan to match what was laid on previously. Opinions? Advice or other?

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

The second picture is of the side of the first picture. Just went back to the stock photos at dealer site.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Anyone remember who sprayed their boat with an airless sprayer?

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Went to visit the boat and lighten my wallet today. The man doing the bottom paint said he knew the boat and the white is gel that was sprayed on. the Blue was gel from a gun. Skibumm is the person that used a Wagner sprayer to gel his boat.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

If its gelcoat then your in luck. We now know that it should be fairly easy to sand ( as apposed to some crap paint with chunkies of whatever in it that would clog paper like mad ).

YD.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

How the heck do they make the blue speckles? Cut the air down and the gel up till it just kinda strings out?

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

How the heck do they make the blue speckles? Cut the air down and the gel up till it just kinda strings out?

Its an additive used in gelcoat ( webbing additive etc. )

YD.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Regelcoating catwalk and engine covers

Still have not gotten around to regelling the deck. Way to much maintenance to do. Replaced 3/4 of the hoses under the hood. Just blew out a clutch slave cylinder yesterday. And guess what it is unavailable. Napa said the would try to match the seals and boots. Cylinder is a Wagner FE 21637 so hopefully this is possible. Just a quick update