Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Jim Marshall

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
172
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

I would agree with Yacht Dr. Aluminum tends to shed poorly prepared and applied products. All the steps including Alumin-Prep and Alodine are the way to go.

I wonder about using an epoxy primer. I recently painted a piece of machinery using a 2-part epoxy primer and a 2-part epoxy paint and it came out great. It was, however over steel

Jim
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Hello m8s..

Zinc Chromate.. I would only use on above water applications FYI.

DO NOT use it on alum drives ...sorry to miss that..

Matter of fact.. do not Soda Blast drives ..

YD.
 

CheapboatKev

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
5,813
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

I still standby trusty rusty..Would I paint a 57 Chevy or a 42 ft Luhrs tournament boat with it NO..

For an average Joe paying bills and getting by working on his labor of love when funds allow..HELL YES.

The key is PREP..you prep badly you will paint badly..There is no miracle paint that doesnt need good prep work.
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
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5,581
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

I would comment to DJs post that.
You only need ZC if you are painting BARE aluminum.

And I hear ya on the hot..When I was painting the bow, the paint was cooking as soon as it hit the tin..when its too hot to lean against without a 2nd degree burn..its too hot to paint!:eek:

And yet you state " The key is PREP..you prep badly you will paint badly..There is no miracle paint that doesnt need good prep work. "

I have Stated how/procedure and what materials required for proper PREP needed..you only state the obvious that prep IS needed.

The YD.
 

CheapboatKev

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
5,813
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Hello m8s..

aluminum ...

Im going to put this on a pro point of view..

You want to paint aluminum .. heres how ( the only correct way that I know how ).

1. Clean the crap out of the surface ( or consider sand blasting ).

2. ALUMIPREP !

3. ALODINE !

4. ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER ( yes the yellow stuff that is expensive ) !

5. 2 part epoxy primer.. ( 545 works well ).

6. Prep/scuff.

7. Use a quality paint ( awl-grip LP is the ticket .. or Sterling.. same stuff ).

8. Yes.. IMHO Rusto sucks and alot more products out there that Claim to be as good suck.

Depends on your pocket book and what your trying to do.. this is the pro way .. not intended for diy pockets. Only for Quality...
YD.

I largely consider most here as DIY'ers..with the DIY pocket that goes with it..I wont get into a psssn contest with you, your skills are outta my league, but I for one like my rustoleum driveway paint job, mate.
 

jasoutside

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
13,269
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

I'll go Rusto when the time comes. Why? Cash. Pretty simple. I picked my rig out of a scrap yard so yah, cash is an issue. If cash wasn't so much of an issue I sure wouldn't be shopping for boats in scrap yards eh!

I'll do my best to do a quality job prepping, painting, sanding, paying attention to humidity, temp, dust and all that stuff. I sure hope I can make it turn out nice. Showroom new shine? Yah right. On a project like mine it just doesn't make sense to blow a bunch of $$. I bet there are lots of guys who are also looking to make a nice, usable rig out of junk. I think that is where the Rusto comes in.

Cheers Fellas!:D
 
Joined
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1,790
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

I used rustoleum on my old tinny. After a f=good cleaning a I used a cost of metal primmer and then 2 coats of rustoleum. It seems to be holding up fairly well. I waited a couple of days between coats and the baost sat for several weeks before I put it in the water. see pic
 

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Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
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Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Just out of curiosity, what are your Professional Aluminum Painting credentials Yacht Dr???
:D
 

sschefer

Rear Admiral
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
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Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Well, this is certainly an interesting post. I think the subject has been covered a couple of hundred times and the argument is always the same...

Proof is in the pudding from those that do...

I painted my Tinny two years ago with Interlux paints.. Followed the directions on the can and got some advice on prep from the manufacturers and she came out beautiful. I haven't worn through the VC Performance on the bottom anywhere and the sides are slick as a whistle.

Would I use Rustoleum.. Yes, Rustoleum Marine is made for boats. It's a one part poly but read about it carefully. More than a couple of days in the water or if you boats sit on bunks you could be headed for trouble.
 

geedubcpa

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
209
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

I used a urethane based paint last summer - after 5-6 outings the paint is still good - no scratches.

I also encourage folks to pick up a HVLP spray gun and try spraying vs paintbrush.

I don't think it affects the durability any if you brush vs spray, but you can paint a smoother more profesional paintjob with the HVLP gun.

For most folks on this board - if you have the skills to rebuild the boat, you probably have the skills to figure out the HVLP spray method.

my 2 cents
 

sschefer

Rear Admiral
Joined
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Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

I used a urethane based paint last summer - after 5-6 outings the paint is still good - no scratches.

I also encourage folks to pick up a HVLP spray gun and try spraying vs paintbrush.

I don't think it affects the durability any if you brush vs spray, but you can paint a smoother more profesional paintjob with the HVLP gun.

For most folks on this board - if you have the skills to rebuild the boat, you probably have the skills to figure out the HVLP spray method.

my 2 cents

That works with a lot of single part poly's. I used two part Interlux perfection. It's a two part and needs to be shot with a pot sprayer and you need a mask with an air supply. Not hard to setup as long as your compressor is in a different part of the world or you're shooting in a booth. Also you need to let your neighbors know that the headache they've got will go away in a couple of days.

Roll and tip works great with this paint because it flows so well. A much safer method. Temps are a big factor...65 degrees was optimal for me.
 

reelfishin

Captain
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
3,050
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

When it comes to painting most boats, for the average guy, the Rustoleum paint job will suffice. If your painting aluminum, there will always be certain steps and primers that you cannot avoid but once primed properly aluminum can be painted successfully with Rustoleum or any other consumer type paint.
Would I paint my car with it, of course not, but for the guy with a weekend fishing boat or family cruiser on the lake that will no doubt get a few nicks and dings over the years, Rustoleum is certainly a decent choice. Once the boat is primed, touch up and repair is easy, certainly easier than fixing an automotive type paint finish, and if done correctly, the level of gloss, orange peel, and general smoothness can rival that of a sprayed on acrylic finish, even when done with a roller.

I would have never believed it or tried it but years ago I had a buddy that painted signs for a living, he drove an old beat up pickup that was 5 shades of primer. After years of teasing, he finally took a can of paint and painted the thing, with a roller. If I hadn't have seen it being done, I'd have never believed it was done with a roller. The truck looked far better than many back yard spray jobs, and for that matter it looked better than may custom paint jobs. He used a hard foam roller, regular gloss sign paint, he actually mixed up a bunch of leftover colors till he had about a gallon can full, the result was a bright purple/burgundy color but it came out looking super. I'd have let him paint my truck that way in a heartbeat. He masked all the edges, started from the top of the cab, standing in the bed, then worked his way downward till it was all done, he did this outside in the dirt driveway. He did the cab one day, the bed the next.

Something I learned by watching him that day was that paint will flow out, and if not put on too heavy, it will level itself out without running leaving a perfectly smooth finish with no runs. There's a fine line between those points.
As far as adhesion of paint, do a search on what is called the water break free method of checking to see if the surface is clean. Here's one article that comes to mind, although not on a boat, the basic idea is the same: http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/waterfree.html

In a nutshell, paint will only adhere well to a perfectly clean surface. If you have chipping issues, peeling, or generally poor adhesion, the surfaces most likely weren't prepped right or weren't clean.
I once worked for a guy that owned a dozen or so delivery vans, they got banged up all the time and repairs were done as cheaply as possible at the company repair shop out back. I worked there for about 6 years, he was a stickler for keeping all the trucks looking presentable, at least when viewed from a fair distance. There was no way he'd let a partially painted or repaired van be seen by the public. The company logos were all premade vinyl decals, and all were painted the same shade of eggshell white.
His method was simple, fix the dent or replace the panel, prime bare metal, mask off chrome, trim, and glass, and wipe the whole truck down with a clean rag and gasoline, let it dry and shoot the whole thing, no matter what. If it needed a fender, the whole thing got painted. I hated working there, the guy was a bit of a butcher when it came to those trucks but looking back, his theory was right, keep them all clean looking and presentable, and keep them well painted and mechanically sound and they will last forever. Those vans were 1969 to 1974 models, this was in the mid 1980's, and he ran that same fleet only adding an occasion new van when one was totaled. They were all painted with Rustoleum.
They were all sprayed with a cheap Sears spray gun which he himself modified the tip to shoot thick paint. He was the only one at first that would shoot the paint or wipe down the vans for prep. He'd wash the van down with gas, then wash the van down in dish detergent, some odd brand that had no scent, and then he'd wet down the whole garage bay, turn up the heat and shoot the paint. Those vans weren't pretty, but they had a good shine, the paint stuck, and they were always one color. From 30' away they looked great, but up close the many layers of paint showed. When I left there, after he had passed away, I ended up with one of the newer vans that had been painted that way as a work truck. I decided to strip it down and give it a decent paint job. The result was two weeks of paint stripping to get off that paint. It was so well adhered I ended up grinding it off with heavy sandpaper and when through several rolls of sandpaper. Each and every layer was well adhered and didn't want to come off. The van had about 5 coats on it, between each had been prepped by his gasoline cleaning method, and in most cases, no sanding was done. It was the equivalent of getting chewing gum out of carpet trying to strip that van down.

Something else that I've seen change over the years is the advent of low VOC paints, and lead free paint, it seems to me that the older paints just stuck better and gave better results. I found this out when one local tractor supply house changed to the newer paints years ago, we soon found that going out of state to buy paint without the new formula applied got you far better paint that didn't fade or peel.
This may have something to do with the fact that the Rustolastic paints I've been using were commercially supplied and not retail packaged, they still contain lead, and are not low voc compliant paints.

Dry time to the touch is about 10 hours, but no enamel will be fully cured for at least a week, often longer. Several buddies in the bodyshop business often said that cold water helps the curing process after the paint dried to the touch. They would often bath a fresh painted car in cold water after the paint dried before any finishing buffing was done. Whether this has any scientific basis I don't know but I do know several body shops that still do it.
 

redfury

Commander
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
2,657
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

One of the reasons lead was used in paint was due to its giving paint more durability. Like most things, the good stuff is bad for your health, the bad stuff is good for your health ( in relation to the good stuff/bad for your health anyway ).

Prep is king when it comes to anything. Rushing any job is going to give you a rushed looking finished product.

You can't get 5 star quality with fast food speed.
 

Isaacm1986

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
1,086
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Isaac,

Would you be willing to share the color you used on the bottom of your boat? I love how it turned out with a metal finish where you can still see all the rivets and what not, assuming it's paint!? I honestly can hardly tell, it looks like its powder coated! Thats awesome.

All it was is the Gloss black rustoleum, sprayed on with a HVLP sprayer. wet sanded between coats.
 

reelfishin

Captain
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
3,050
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Last summer I had a painted trailer that needed a fresh coat of paint. A buddy gave me a gallon of old Sinclair enamel. It was apparently the paint they used to service their equipment. It was free, and a test panel I painted looked great. I hit the rusty spots with a wire wheel, primed it with Rustoleum rusty metal primer, let it dry, gave it a quick wipe down with some gas, and proceeded to brush on about half of the gallon can onto the trailer.
The paint was fairly thick, had little to no tendency to run, and the result was a super high gloss finish. This year I replaced the bunks on that trailer with bunk rollers for use with a flat bottom skiff, and took the new bunk brackets, which were no painted gray and tried stripping off that paint. I gave up and bought another set. Paint stripper did almost nothing, just made the paint gummy, and the stripper attacked the galvanized coating on the brackets.
Either way, that old paint sure stuck, and was a pleasure to use. The can was probably 40+ years old, a neighbor had found it in his garage, said it came with the house when he bought it over 35 years ago. The paint is holding up super, it's not faded, hasn't chipped, and shows no signs of rust blisters anywhere.

One thing I noticed when I first opened the paint can was that the paint had separated in several layers, the oil was dark brown, it looked about like motor oil, the color pigments were separated, I could see some light green shades, some gray, and some black in the mix. It took a good half hour of stirring to get it all mixed back up. The paint you buy today just don't look or smell the same. That old paint smelled bad, real bad, but it worked super. I even had a few neighbors comment on how strong it smelled, two doors away.

As far as lead in paint, from what I'm told the only hazard there is if you eat the paint chips, I've just never had that urge.
The odor from the paint is obviously the solvent, what ever they used, it took a week for it to dry to the touch, then two more weeks out in the sun for it to be hard enough to really handle. A year later its hard as stone and well adhered. What I liked most is how well it flowed out and left no brush strokes. It looks more like it was dipped than brush painted.
 

DDG53

Cadet
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
21
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Hey Xltom

I waited a few hours between coats.It was my first ever paint job on a boat and had zero experience.
I didnt have to use any primer, as the original paint was solid, just had to lightly sand it to scuff the surface, wash it, toweled it off and rolled on the rusty..
Before and afters
beforeafterstarboard.jpg

Thats One tough car you got there:eek::)
 

sschefer

Rear Admiral
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
4,530
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

This is Interlux Perfection on top and VC performance on the bottom. The bottom also got a coat of Interlux Prime Wash and 5 coats of Barrier primer.

SNC00011.jpg
 

redfury

Commander
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
2,657
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

This is Interlux Perfection on top and VC performance on the bottom. The bottom also got a coat of Interlux Prime Wash and 5 coats of Barrier primer.

SNC00011.jpg
Did you paint that on those stands? How well did it go painting the bottom? It's the one thing I dread doing on my curvy bottom hulled glastron. I'd prefer if I could flip the whole boat over and paint it that way, but I don't think that will end up being an option.
 

starcrafter65

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
645
Re: Rustoleum paint job sucks!!! Bad advice?

Screw Paint!

I used self etching primer etc and the primer and paint came right off - not sure what I did wrong - but I am doing what I wanted to do all along - bare aluminum - OLD SCHOOL - it looks awesome! Pictures don't do it Justice

nopaint008.jpg
 
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