shooting down a spy satellite

gonefishie

Commander
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Jul 28, 2004
Messages
2,624
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

Well; I guess I am the only one who wants it to take out china?

Yeah you be the only one! You know why? cause gas price would go up so high we won't be able to afford none. :D
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
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4,268
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

Here's some more facts that back up my original thought... the missile that "shot down" the satelite didn't contain a warhead. So instead of exploding the satelite, it basically hit it with a big hammer. That would be ineffective at hiding secret technologies used on board, and wouldn't do much, if anything to alleviate the toxin problem, which by the way, they said would only have affected a 2 football field sized area.
Things broke into little pieces burn up easier than large objects.
 

RubberFrog

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Re: shooting down a spy satellite

I haven't heard anything lately on any of our news stations, but my mother said they were just talking about it on the chat room she was viewing and the people on there said that they did take it down. Don't take my word for it though.
That settles it then. We have the official word from some guys mom who heard it in a chat room. ;)
 

drewmitch44

Lieutenant Commander
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Messages
1,749
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

you can see a video on fox news web site. You just go to videos and its there. You can see a fireball when they say the missle hit the fuel tank of the satilite. WooHoo
 

beezee28

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Messages
804
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

Read somewhere that the govt. spent about $60mil on that shot?
 

SgtMaj

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Re: shooting down a spy satellite

UHHHYYEAAA! For a SGM you should check your numbers again, Because china has a heck of bigger army than that.:cool:

Not that it has any bearing on the subject, since the policies would be the same if it were 1 million or 1 billion, but China's army is commonly referred to as the million man army. Dispite their boasts that they COULD support a 200 million man army, they actually only had 1.08 million in 2004, and they have been scaling that back since then.

Read somewhere that the govt. spent about $60mil on that shot?

Yup, 60 mil to shoot down what would have cost 1 mil at most to clean up.

Things broke into little pieces burn up easier than large objects.

Yup, and if that was their goal, an armed warhead would do the trick. Hitting it with an unarmed missile will leave it largely in one piece. Albeit a dented up one.
 

turfman

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
169
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

Yeah you be the only one! You know why? cause gas price would go up so high we won't be able to afford none. :D

That's funny.

I thought it'd be the other way around! But then again; I thought since we were going into Iraq, gas would be around a buck. Dummy me.
 

bekosh

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Apr 27, 2004
Messages
1,382
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

Yup, and if that was their goal, an armed warhead would do the trick. Hitting it with an unarmed missile will leave it largely in one piece. Albeit a dented up one.
At a closing speed of around 30k mph (20k+ for the sat,12k+ for missile) an explosive warhead would be quite unnecessary.;)

Energy=mass x speed
10000kg(WAG) x 134112m/s= BIG BADA BOOM!!!:eek: (1341120000 joules) aprox 700lbs of TNT.
nuclear.gif
 

puddle jumper

Captain
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Jul 5, 2006
Messages
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Re: shooting down a spy satellite

As being an old avid trap shooter i wish i was the one pulling the trigger. I wonder how much of an lead thay gave it.:D
 

v1_0

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
575
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

Ballistic missiles are, well, ballistic. Once launched they can't maneuver, change course or react to defenses. No decoys, no ECM, no dodging. Just just plodding along, blind and dumb on a fixed course.

Nope:
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetration_aids" Ahem... It's a family website. :eek:


Stealth doesn't work for ballistic missiles, you are kinda limited to that long round metal shape. Not stealthy at all. You can't really change the shape of the warheads either, they need to be a stable aerodynamic shape. Besides, the final intercept is done by infra-red, before warhead deployment.

Everything I read on the ABMs spoke of radar. Anyway - stealth also includes things such as coatings (to absorb radar, decrease the 'radar visibility'... This can be true of heat too so as to decrease the infra-red visibility). So, even if the shape can't be changed (I have doubts as to if that is a true statement - maybe we can't remove, but perhaps add to it?), then coatings can be applied.

Up to this point, nobody has needed to make the ICBMs move around - but it's like anything else. If there's a need, there will be a solution.

Right now you have 3 nations with deployed(ing) missile defenses, USA, Russia & Israel. Within 5-10 years that'll grow, with India, Japan & Taiwan deploying. Expect Europe to get in on the act at some point as well.
Just think, we maybe with 15-20 years of the ballistic missile being rendered obsolete and finally ending the insanity of MAD.

India has the capability (it has successfully tested interception), and will deploy a system around 2010.

MAD may go away for a small while, but it's the same old sword/shield balance -ie: why our warriors don't wear plate mail. Soon enough, some country will figure out how to get around the current type of defenses, and we will need new ones. Nope, technology isn't the solution to the root cause of this..

-V
 

waterinthefuel

Commander
Joined
Nov 15, 2003
Messages
2,728
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

I spoke with a buddy of mine in the military and he said that we no longer posess enough nukes to take out all of Russia. We would have to pick and choose. They however can still take us out.
 

SgtMaj

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Messages
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Re: shooting down a spy satellite

I spoke with a buddy of mine in the military and he said that we no longer posess enough nukes to take out all of Russia. We would have to pick and choose. They however can still take us out.

You're buddy is either misinformed or lied... there are more than enough on one boomer to pretty much handle every major Russian city... and we have more than one boomer, and then we have ICBM's, and of course bombers...

While the ABM treaties may have had us cut back some, it's the difference between being able to destroy the world 7 times over, and only being able to destroy it twice over. Once is enough.

"General, how much does a boomer sub cost to make?"
Gen: "About what a tank of gas will cost next year."

SgtMaj
 

SgtMaj

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
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Messages
1,997
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

At a closing speed of around 30k mph (20k+ for the sat,12k+ for missile) an explosive warhead would be quite unnecessary.;)

Energy=mass x speed
10000kg(WAG) x 134112m/s= BIG BADA BOOM!!!:eek: (1341120000 joules) aprox 700lbs of TNT.
nuclear.gif

Was that the closing speed? I haven't seen anything on it, but I didn't think they were going to hit it from an oncomming trajectory... that's actually impressive that they could hit it that way if that's what they did.
 

Newportme

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
113
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

If the speeds are correct they would have to hit from an on coming angle.....or the missile could never catch the sat.

Also Bekosh is correct these hits are called kinetic energy hits...no warhead =faster missiles and better range.



Former FC2 USN
 

Windykid

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Apr 17, 2007
Messages
1,177
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

Not that it has any bearing on the subject, since the policies would be the same if it were 1 million or 1 billion, but China's army is commonly referred to as the million man army. Dispite their boasts that they COULD support a 200 million man army, they actually only had 1.08 million in 2004, and they have been scaling that back since then.

.
Just so you know, since you dont do your homework its 2.8 million. You bable like a true SGM.
 

bekosh

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
1,382
Re: shooting down a spy satellite

Nope:
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetration_aids" Ahem... It's a family website. :eek:
For this type of thing Wiki may not be the best reference. The only footnote in that article refers to a book from 1969.
I poked around on some websites to refute this and the answer seems to be "no they don't work, and if we told you why, we'd have to kill you." :eek: I'm probably on 1/2 a dozen FBI/CIA/NSA watch lists now.:redface:
Some of what I found:
Mylar balloons- Blast a load of jello (Yes, real jello) out the front of an interceptor so that it has higher velocity than the interceptor itself. The first thing that happens is that all the water evaporates so we are left with a cloud of fine but very hard particles in a shotgun blast. That'll act as a sorting mechanism. Balloons etc will get shredded by the blast, relatively solid RVs won?t be affected. So the interceptor following can see what is solid and what isn't. That?s one of the technologies used. Jello is good because it disperses evenly while something that?s solid to start with (sand for example) clumps.

Nuclear radar blackout-
. The EMP effects last for about 10 nano-seconds. For military radars, the moment they detect the power surge, they switch off then back on. The operator wouldn?t even notice. If you feel like reading up on it, here is a good explanation in layman?s terms. Electronic Effects of Nuclear Initiations

The whole decoy thing comes down to this.
Quote from the 'Seer Stuart' of the above article.
It's not really that hard to pick out the "live" RV.
1.) The IR signature of an actual nuclear warhead is quite distinguishable against a very cold background of space, because the fissile material in the warhead generates a unique internal signature (remember, plutonium is warm to the touch). (Mid-Course); oh I wonder why we put a IR seeker on our Kill vehicle....

2.) As the targets start to enter the Earth's atmosphere; it means the much lighter decoys will decelerate much more rapidly than the actual, much heavier, warheads.

In all, to defeat ABM, you would need a decoy that pretty much for a multitude of reasons is the exact same shape and weight of the real warhead.

With that in mind, why carry decoys, when you could use that precious throw weight to toss an actual warhead instead?


Everything I read on the ABMs spoke of radar. Anyway - stealth also includes things such as coatings (to absorb radar, decrease the 'radar visibility'... This can be true of heat too so as to decrease the infra-red visibility). So, even if the shape can't be changed (I have doubts as to if that is a true statement - maybe we can't remove, but perhaps add to it?), then coatings can be applied.
Another area were mum's the word.
Up to this point, nobody has needed to make the ICBMs move around - but it's like anything else. If there's a need, there will be a solution.
Actually they have, however, maneuvering is limited if you're still going to hit the target.
How about another Stuart article.
MRVs, MIRVs and MARVs
India has the capability (it has successfully tested interception), and will deploy a system around 2010.

MAD may go away for a small while, but it's the same old sword/shield balance -ie: why our warriors don't wear plate mail. Soon enough, some country will figure out how to get around the current type of defenses, and we will need new ones. Nope, technology isn't the solution to the root cause of this..

-V
This is true. It's a never ending battle. But that's no excuse not to defend against them. Ballistic missiles are inherently destabilizing. Without defenses, once one flys they all fly. No nation will sit with their missiles in the silo once they start flying. It's a miracle we got thru the cold war without blowing our selves up.


Note: 'Seer Stuart' is a defense analyst named Stuart Slade.
Here's his bio so that you know he's not just talking out of his arse.
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/default2_bioSS.htm

I'm off to hide from the MiB's.:D
 
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