STREAMS

mellowyellow · May 15, 2003

Re: STREAMS

DUDE! all that letter means is they r scared, know they are wrong, and r hoping yur stupid! read btw the lines!!!! PLEASE take my advice and fight fire w/fire. call it what you will, if the town approves filling in the "drainage ditch", they are not absolved of the consequences of their actions, especially if said actions cause damage to you!!! sorry, but I take this letter as a "good sign". I would write an immediate reply denouncing their claims. certified of course.... play stupid, ask questions, and let them give u the eveidence you need. ask; "how do you know it's safe?" lawyers love (need) a paper trail Ken

go get 'em, M.Y. (edit) a good idea to get niehbors to sign something that says the "ditch" was really there, where it was, and what happened to it after construction. take some pics of what's actually hapening to the water in the area now... we've had some rain here at least.... us guys gotta be able to outsmart some local Politician...I think

LadyFish · May 15, 2003

Re: STREAMS

What a mess Kenny, sorry to hear that things are not going as expected. I do like the idea of KennyLand though.

I agree with M.Y. don't give up. Trust me there must be aerial shots of that site from years ago at the County Engineer's office or with the COE or at the very least an old survey at some other engineering office. I used to work in civil engineering, somebody has proof that stream existed. Hang in there and keep the heat on them.

NOSLEEP · May 15, 2003

Re: STREAMS

MY, Is right their just hoping you will go away. Dont let them fool you, get your stuff in order.

roscoe · May 15, 2003

Re: STREAMS

They are going to sue you for mentioning a stream? I'd say sue them for threatening a frivilous lawsuit and infringement of your right to free speech. I'd also build a big landscaping burm around my property to block the water and keep it on the land it is coming from. Also like the idea of a sign. Something like " Your house is built on a sink hole and I'm going to sue the new owners for flooding my property."

KennyKenCan · May 16, 2003

Re: STREAMS

Hi all, I have not given up the ship yet. An enviromental lawyer from Boston is comming down this weekend to look over the situation. Said that if we win, we will sue them for this destruction and he would take 5% of that settlement amount, and if we lose, he won't charge a fee. We shall see how that goes. Meanwhile... LadyFish, thanks for the help, your input has helped tremendously. I have looked into when the last survey on this property was done, check this out, it was done on Sept. 17, 1898. This was the only survey ever done on this property until 2001, when the property was sold from the original owners. This property was in one families hands for over 100 years! Have not yet been able to obtain the aerial photography from the county yet, but I have ordered it, and it will take approx. 3 to 8 weeks to get, and cost $30! Still no word from the Army Corps. of Engineers as of yet, but from what I understand, a response from them can take forever too. Well, that's about all for this week, I'll keep you all posted about what happens over the weekend. Meanwhile, maybe I'll be able to get some work done on the boat and get it at least 2 steps closer to going in the water.

Kenny

mellowyellow · May 17, 2003

Re: STREAMS

there has to be a current survey from current sale on file with county clerk. good luck, M.Y.

plywoody · May 17, 2003

Re: STREAMS

The funny thing about streams is that if there was one there, there is still one there somewhere. It may be in a different spot, but it is there somewhere. I live in Washington State where they are really touchy about issues like this, and they have at the state level an environemental group with soil conservation officials and the like. They are very skilled at viewing topographical maps and figuring out drainages and the like, including 100 year flood plans. I'd get that lawyer, even if you find out that 5% commission he spoke of is really 40%, which is more likely. If there was a stream there, and the contractor diverted it somewhere else, it is impacting someone else, and there has been a loss to someone. If it was a year round stream. And towns just cannot do anything they want with water and drainage. The science on this stuff is pretty clear and understandable. Just ask the folks of Walkerton, Ontario about buying off local officials regarding water. They had a bunch of people die from e-coli from playing games with this stuff.

billyshears · May 17, 2003

Re: STREAMS

What a mess! Don't give up, EVER! You are in the right, and that matters. Here's an idea: Have you searched the web for Satellite photo's of your area? I looked once and found the house I grew up in. It wasn't very detailed, but could see a lot. That was over 2 years ago. There might be better photos now. Specially after 9-11, there may be really good photos of Long Island! Just a thought. Hope any of this helps. If not, sorry. Just don't give up. I admire you for your strenght. Wish more people stood up for what was right and what they believe in. Also, it is nice to see all of those who are trying to help him. The world needs more people like you too!

DaleT · May 17, 2003

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Kenny try this site you may be able to get a decent shot of the stream. Terra Server Just search by area code.

KennyKenCan · May 20, 2003

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Hi all, Well I tryed a few things over the weekend. First I posted a sign that said " If You Wish To Know The Truth About These New Homes, Inquire Here ". I also had sent registered letters last week to the contractor and the Town stating that their conclusion about the possibility of flooding was unacceptable . Well guess what...I ended up spending Sunday and Monday IN JAIL ! I was arraigned on charges of harassment and slander against the Town and the contractor, and I have to appear in court to face these charges on June 19. The Town removed the sign off of my property and I was issued a summons for erecting a sign without a permit! (Who knows what the fine is.) My attorney advised me to stop this activity and let the situation stand as the Town and the contractor want, if I wish to have these charges dropped, and if I wish to stay out of prison! ( I could possibly spend anywhere from 6 months to 3 years in jail on these charges !) The enviromental attorney from Boston came down and took a look and he claimed I have a case against them, but it would most likely be impossible to win because the construction has already begun, so he wouln't take the case. This is really getting out of hand, and I haven't got any idea what to do next. Around here, Money Talks , all others go to JAIL.

plywoody · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

How much money do you want to spend? What is your potential loss if this proceeds unchecked? You can go to an engineering firm, find one with a soil and drainage expert, have him look at topographical maps and what is happening, and assuming you have a complaint, get an assesment and potential damage estimate, hire a lawyer and go to court to try to get a stop work order. If the facts are on your side, the courts should not be as political as the town. Ideally, perhaps you can negotiate a settlement that meets your needs as well. there is nothing a contractor fears more than a stop work order, as the banks issue construction loans for a defines period of time, and he makes his money for turning the property before the loan needs to be repaid--Making payments on a loan come directly from his profits.

LadyFish · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

Kenny, I'm reading this with my mouth wide open in disbelief. This is so wrong. I can't believe they arrested you. It seems they would issue a fine, but making you spend the night in jail? Unbelievable.

I don't know what you can do from here except keep trying to find an attorney that will take your case. Keep us posted on new developments Kenny.

mattttt25 · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

kenny, i want to believe you but it's hard. as a civil engineer for the navy, i know there are too many entities that look over these things. as much as we want to believe people buy the government, it just doesn't happen very often. in any event, i'd suggest you tread lightly to keep yourself out of jail. keep talking with other agencies (EPA, ACOE) and gathering information, but refrain from talking with the town government or contractor. as crazy as it sounds, it could be legitimate harrassment on your part. where does this stream originate from? is that still there? just a thought. you can also go to www.mapquest.com right now and look at an aireal view of the property, for free. was probably taken a year or two ago, so you'll see the stream. if you have a close address you can provide us, we can all see it. good luck-

KennyKenCan · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

Hi LadyFish, Yea, I'm at my wits end here. It seems that no matter what I do, the Town is going to over rule anything I do, or keep having me arrested until I drop this! My attorney has told me the best thing to do is to let go of this and try to sell my home and move. (I'm lookin for a new lawyer!) My house is my family's homestead, we have been living there since 1956, I told him. He said that if I persue this, I will just keep getting deeper into this because he claim's the Town will win, and then he would no longer gaurantee that he could get me out of jail! I just don't think that I should have to leave my home because a greedy developer wants to make a profit without regard to my property! I'm pretty sure that the Town and the contractor will stop at nothing to get these homes built and sold just so that the contractor can make a profit and the Town can collect large amounts of tax revenue. The laws here in NY are designed to protect only those who have money, not those who own land and have to work 2 jobs just to afford the taxes here. 2 of my neighbors were also arrested with me because of the sign's they posted. Now they won't even talk to me because they say I got them into this, and arrested! Now I've got the whole neighborhood against ME ! Let me tell you, this is one of the stupidest things I have ever been involved with and I don't know how its going to end. Thanks for your support throughout this ordeal LadyFish, I really appreciate it.

KennyKenCan · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

mattttt25, I have been to all the web sites that have aerial photos, but none of them can zoom close enough to see stream through the foliage, I can't even see my house. The address of these new homes is across the street from 237 West Shore Rd., Oakdale NY. I understand what you are saying about the Town not being able to get away with this, but around here its a common occurance, believe me because it is happening to me! As far as the Town and the contractor are concerned, I will no longer have any corspondance with them until I have to go to court on June 19, as ordered by the judge.

martyscher · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

Kenny, Careful about selling your home now. You may now have a "known defect", that could take YOU and the buyer to court, if not disclosed. Your lawyer could know for sure. Did you try the media again? with the jail and tearing down of the sign, you may now have a "story". Have you considered landscaping or a "decorative" wall, that may channel the water elsewhere? What a drag

KennyKenCan · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

Hi Marty, Yea, I know about the disclaimer thing. Now I probably won't be able to sell, even if I wanted to. As far as going back to the media, the judge ordered me not to get in contact with them, as per request from the Towns lawyers! I am not even suppose to be telling you about this either. I was ordered to have no corespondance with anyone other than the District Attorney! As far as installing a wall, that's all fine and dandy as long as I'm not paying for it! Why do I have to go through the process and expense of getting all the permits and engineering that the Town requires, when it is the contractor who is causing the flooding in my property. Have lived here since 1956, never had flooding before! Thanks for your response, Kenny

KennyKenCan · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

Never knew this would become a 2 page post. WOW

mellowyellow · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

dang Ken, that's almost 50yrs! gotta kill you to see them bulldoze it after all those years... a little drainage ditch in the right place will keep it away from your foundation and shouldn't cost a lot....

CYA! sure sounds like your going it alone here? no other niehbors concerned? maybe they are just happy the new construction will push up their property value? seems maybe if you paid for a survey, and got copies of the origional survey from the sale of the lots, you could get a 3rd party "professional" opinion to include in your file. still think you might get lucky at a NYC law college as a case study. hope for the best, be prepared for the worst

regards, M.Y.

LadyFish · May 20, 2003

Re: STREAMS

Kenny, is the entire island a National Park? If so, this building project should come under the authority of the U.S. National Park Service. With that in mind, and everything else the island has done to preserve and protect the environment maybe they could help. For sure there should be a set of regulations a builder would have to abide by or pass via an inspection process. I did a quick search and found this interesting. The Anti-Environmental Backlash Some people on Fire Island complain about "today's extreme, pro-environmental environment," and fear that the government and organizations such as our's seek the "de-population " of the island. According to an article in As The Grove Turns, there are "plans being bounced around by various Federal and State agencies, and backed by almost every environmental organization there is! The main proponent of these extreme, private property rights, land grabbing violations, is non[e] other then [sic] The Nature Conservancy. ...Fire Island Ecology... is also a proponent of these anti-Fire Island plans." Apparently of concern is the land buy-out proposal. Although FIE has not formally endorsed this, it does seem worthy of discussion. The land buy-out plan would involve land sold by willing sellers; there would be no infringement of property rights. More.... I would be very careful who you talk to. It sounds like where I live, there are a handful of people running the island, we refer to it as the 'good ole boy' way of doing things here. I read one article on that site that suggested that most of the positions in the property associations are held by attorneys. I also read that some meetings are not posted to residents when important decisions are to be made. It sounds so much like the barrier reef island I live on. It all comes down to politics and money.

I'd hate to see you give up, but you can't keep going to jail either. The last you want is to look like a trouble maker, nobody will listen then. You just need the right hook-up. Trust me, somebody besides you cares what is going on, you just need to find them (discretely).

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