Suggestions for Re-Wiring

[l008com]

My boat is an outboard, so I feel like redoing all my 25 year old wiring is something I can handle. So my plan is to install a switch panel, tear out 100% of the old wiring, and re-do all the wiring, adding a few extras like floor LEDs, a radio with some speakers, maybe a spotlight.

So I have some specific questions about doing this:

• I need clips. Lots of them. Something I can somehow 'stick' underneath all the various parts of my boat, and use them to hold all these wires in place. Lots of these clips will be on the inside of the hull, so drilling holes isn't an option. I'm thinking something I can use with some adhesive to glue the clips in place, then reach up there and clip in the wires. But I don't want to have to deal with un-sticking clips in a year or two, so the more permanent, the better. Suggestions?
  
• I need some sort of T-clips for the wiring. Something I can seal with some heat shrink, and hopefully the connector will last another 25 years.
  
• I'm thinking I should use one thick gauge of wiring to go from the battery to my switch box (box has fuses built in), and another thinner gauge to connect each item to the box. (power to the engine will still go separately, directly to the battery). So any suggestions for what gauge of wire. Also will "regular" wiring work, or should I get some wire specific to marine use?

Here's my tentative plan. Wire up LED bow, stern and floor lights to separate switches. Bilge pump on two switches (auto/on). Accessory switch for depth gauge, radio, GPS. Should I put the horn and the trim off the Accessory switch, or should I wire them directly into the straight feed off the battery?

Also, and this is my least important question. Is there an easy way to get a tach reading off my outboard? Its a 1990 mercury 90hp.

 

[l008com]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

This (or something just like this) is what I'm thinking of for my switch panel: http://www.iboats.com/8-Position-Sl...38263348--**********.771927598--view_id.44302
It has the right amount of switches, everything will have it's own fuse, my wiring will be simplified, the switches themselves will be good sized, and the panel itself will be big enough, but small enough.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

When re-wiring I simply don't understand why people what to add a switch for devices that already have one. GPS, Locators, Radios, for example already have an On/Off switch why add another to create another point of failure. If you can't remember to turn off the device using it's switch, you will not remember to turn the other one off either. And why two separate switches for the bilge pump. A single three position On-Off-On (On/Off/Auto) will work nicely. If you really want to add a useful switch at one that serves as a MASTER POWER switch. It kill power from the battery to the fuse panel so with one flip you have everything turned off.

 

[l008com]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

The answer to all your questions is the same. I plan on installing a single 8 switch panel. So the reason I'd run things with off switches through more switches, is because the panel has fuses built in. Kind of like your breaker box in your basement that has switches even though your home devices already have switches. And 2 switches for the pump because the switches on this panel are not 3 way switches. And there are 8 switches to begin with so I have enough spare switches.

 

[l008com]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

So anyone else have any suggestions. Particularly for what to use for "clipping" the wires out of sight.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

You said: "So the reason I'd run things with off switches through more switches, is because the panel has fuses built in. Kind of like your breaker box in your basement that has switches even though your home devices already have switches." That analogy is not a good one since you have many devices on a single branch circuit from your home fuse panel so individual devices on one breaker actually requires a switch otherwise you would need to run to the basement to turn it off and then everything on that branch goes off. So with your plan the sequence to turn on your radio is 1) Turn on panel switch for radio, then go to the radio and turn on its power. Next, the radio itself will have it's own in-line fuse that can simply be tied to an unswitched +12 volt source saving you one of the switches for something you will invariablly add in the future. As for the bilge pump, you turn on the bilge pump using the MANUAL switch and when you leave the boat you turn on the AUTO switch. Guess what -- you come back to a dead battery since you forgot to turn off the MANUAL switch and the pump ran continuously. I personally don't care what you do and am only pointing out what I feel is not an optimum design. If it makes you happy do it.

 

[turbinedoctor]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

Try using self adhesive cable clamps http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=984270&CatId=85

Wipe down the smooth surface where you are going to put them with some denatured alcohol and let dry. You will probably be cussing in 25 years trying to get them off.

 

[msargius]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

I thought its better to have the bulge pump on auto all the time. The engine normally is on a lower part from the deck, by the time you notice the water you could be already in trouble. I was thinking of adding something like an indicator light (LED) by the instruments to indicate the pump is on.. Although that I agree that an overide just in case the float does not work as mentioned in the previous post (on/off/auto).

 

[l008com]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

Try using self adhesive cable clamps http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=984270&CatId=85

Wipe down the smooth surface where you are going to put them with some denatured alcohol and let dry. You will probably be cussing in 25 years trying to get them off.

I've used clips like that before, indoors for computer setups. Some stay good, some pop off after a few years. Also, most of my clips will be on the back, non-smooth side of fiberglass. Maybe I can put a layer of glue or something on the sticky pads so it will get a better grip on the rough fiberglass?

I thought its better to have the bulge pump on auto all the time. The engine normally is on a lower part from the deck, by the time you notice the water you could be already in trouble. I was thinking of adding something like an indicator light (LED) by the instruments to indicate the pump is on.. Although that I agree that an overide just in case the float does not work as mentioned in the previous post (on/off/auto).

My boat is a tiny 16 foot speed boat. And the problem with auto is sometimes a little piece of **** gets jammed in the propeller. This extra resistance makes the motor think its still pumping water, so the motor just says on and running until the battery is dead, or until the motor is dead. This happened last year and the boat actually ended up sinking at the dock. Also I lived 35 miles away from where it was docked so I wasn't going up there as often as I'd like. But now I'll be trailing the boat so I probably don't need a pump at all. Obviously I'm still going to use one, and I figure with 8 switches, I might as well give myself the option. If i was going to dock the boat again, I would probably forget the pump's "auto" wire, and hook up my auto switch up front, to a float switch out back, and have "auto" and "manual" hooked up like that. But since I'm trailering, I don't think it will be an issue again either way.

 

[msargius]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

I've used clips like that before, indoors for computer setups. Some stay good, some pop off after a few years. Also, most of my clips will be on the back, non-smooth side of fiberglass. Maybe I can put a layer of glue or something on the sticky pads so it will get a better grip on the rough fiberglass?

They don't work as you said... glue a wood trim strip into the fiberglass with a strong adheisive a long the iniside of the boat... then you will be able to use wire clips with stainless screws to tie your wires.

 

[l008com]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

Time to revive this thread. I'm well into my re-wiring project. I got some adhesive clips very similar to what was linked to above. I stuck a few on the clean side of the fiberglass just as a temporary place to run the wires until I get a permanent solution. They do stick to the clean "cosmetic" side of fiberglass. They stick to nothing else. So nothing on the "underbelly" of the fiberglass which is where I need my wires to be. At first I was thinking about getting a big used piece of fiberglass. Something with a very clean side, and cutting it into small squares, using 5200 to glue them to the back side of my existing fiberglass, and stick all my clips to that.

But I'm not sure about that plan. Mainly because these clips look really cheap and ****ty. One of them actually fell off from it's adhesive... meaning the adhesive is still on the fiberglass but the black plastic clip is gone. So now I'm thinking maybe I should go the route of gluing some new wood underneath everything and screwing metal clips into that. Does anyone have any links to some good types of clips to use for that? Ideally I'd like something like a metal version of what I have now. Something I can screw on one, and then hook my wires around as needed in the future.

Any fresh thoughts on plan A or plan B? It's really a small boat but I'm re-doing all of the non-motor electronics, and adding a few toys. There is already a lot of wire and there's only more to come.

My current clips:


My boat:

 

[RickJ6956]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

Use 5200 to glue some small chunks of wood to the inside of the gunwale. Use tape to hold it while it dries.

Cable ties with screw eyes are the device of choice. Don't overtighten them. All they need to do is loosely hold the wiring in place. By not tightening them all the way you'll also have room to run new wires in the future. Don't buy the reusable ties -- they'll fail.

The auto switch for the bilge pump should be directly connected to the battery so you can't turn it off. A new owner of the boat may think it's protected. If you're concerned about junk from the bilge interfering with the switch, you should consider cleaning the bilge.

 

[l008com]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

Use 5200 to glue some small chunks of wood to the inside of the gunwale. Use tape to hold it while it dries.

Cable ties with screw eyes are the device of choice. Don't overtighten them. All they need to do is loosely hold the wiring in place. By not tightening them all the way you'll also have room to run new wires in the future. Don't buy the reusable ties -- they'll fail.

The auto switch for the bilge pump should be directly connected to the battery so you can't turn it off. A new owner of the boat may think it's protected. If you're concerned about junk from the bilge interfering with the switch, you should consider cleaning the bilge.

Cool where do you get those zip ties?

As far as the bilge pump... i want to be able to 100% kill the power when my boat's on the trailer. And i've cleaned the bilge many times, but I still find little chunks of red rug material every time it rains, going down my driveway (i pull the plug when i park it).

 

[NYBo]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

Cool where do you get those zip ties?

I got mine at Lowes.

 

[l008com]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

So I've been thinking about this a lot these past few days. I've accepted the fact that I'm going to have to cut up some wood, put some kind of fasteners on the wood, and glue it all up in my boat. But the more I think of those zip ties, teh more I don't like them. There must be some kind of small metal loops that fit this job? Something maybe with alternating "teeth" in a circular arrangement, so you could feed the wire in through the side, you wouldn't even need to feed it through from the end? I need to go for a long walk through home depot and see what they have for fasteners. I'm not doing a great job of describing what I'm thinking of, and I can't find anything like it on google. But another solution that would probably work perfectly would be to just get a bunch of these, and only attach one end to the wood. So it would be open-ended. This is probably going to end up being the best solution.

Correction: the one i linked to is a plastic clip. I'm thinking bout small, coated metal clips like that.

 

[RicMic]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

Yeah they make those, but you won't find them at Lowes or Home Depot, you will have to go to an industrial supply.

 

[fish_on_the_deck]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

This (or something just like this) is what I'm thinking of for my switch panel: http://www.iboats.com/8-Position-Sl...38263348--**********.771927598--view_id.44302
It has the right amount of switches, everything will have it's own fuse, my wiring will be simplified, the switches themselves will be good sized, and the panel itself will be big enough, but small enough.

On the swtich panel, consider the one I decided to go for on this thread:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=425512
Can get you breakers vice fuses too.

On the clip thing... I have used the metal ones similar to the one pictured with success. But really I prefer just regular old cable ties with mounts like the little guys in the first link below. They are small, cheap and easy to cut off and replace if you need to.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...o?pid=4342&familyName=Ancor+Cable+Tie+Mounts+

or

here are the ones the guy mentioned previously:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=689

jamestown has pretty good prices.

Also, consider painting some epoxy resin over the wood to help prevent rot.

good luck!

-fish

 

[EricJRW]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

l008com:

Good luck with your project. I'm gradually improving my wiring. Did you see this thread:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=239445

I particularly liked this link:

http://www.acbsphl.org/Tips_and_hints/ABYC_Wiring.htm

 

[l008com]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

OK so I bought a 1"x4" piece of pressure treated wood for another project, and i have plenty left over (on purpose) to cut into small squares for gluing in my boat. Most, if not all of this wood will be glued up under the fiberglass, and out of direct rainfall and splashing. However, should I do anything to the wood to protect it anyway, before I glue it in place? Most of it is going in pretty tight spots, so once it's glued in, theres no way to get up there and seal it or anything, so I need to do that now before I install it.

 

[convergent]

Re: Suggestions for Re-Wiring

I would put some screw in eyelets in each block of wood and then use regular ties to attach. that way if you need to later cut them, you can easily slip in a new tie.

I would not think you'd have to treat the wood since its well up out of the elements, but I'm by no means an expert. I'm just thinking if you have water getting up to where these wires are at then you have bigger problems then tie downs for your wiring!