synthetic oil

[DeanL]

Re: synthetic oil

quantumleap,<br /><br />I was using you as an example (no offense) of how BOTH sides of the argument use allegedly hearsay evidence to prove their point. Maybe we should have a requirement that all posts be independently reviewed and certified! <br /><br />Yes, there are some marketing similarities, but I've never seen Amway products in my local store. I can get Amsoil at my local NAPA autoparts, a motorcycle dealer in the next town, and my local marine dealer. And as far as where the money goes, Amsoil is still reasonably priced. I'd rather keep my money in America, and support the guy that just might be my neighbor instead of some suit in a corporate office or some Sheik.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: synthetic oil

I'm still a little confused as to why Ficht Ram, XD-50 and XD-100 are still not TC-W3 rated, if they are sold by J/E? I understand that TC-W3 is a minimum requirement and that Amsoil hasn't sought the cetification, but why hasn't the J/E with these specific oils if the motors that they make call for TC-W3 oil? When I bought my Ficht in 2000, the dealer told me to only use the Ficht oil in it, but he gave me no good reason when I asked why, such as the stated ring-land temps differ, which is very informative, and after going to buy some from him before I left, I took a look at it and asked why it didn't have a TC-W3 rating, again he had no answer, only to say the minimum rating thing which I understand. But why not at least get certified and let people know that you at least meet the minimum rating and then state on your label that you are well above and beyond that rating. Because of this I was confused and never used Ficht oil in my motor and used regular Lubrimatic TC-W3 oil. I never had a problem, but then again I have sold it and don't know if maybe I have done some damage to it and the new owner will pay for my mistake. Regardless I really just want to know why J/E wouldn't certify these oils if they are designed for there own engines that call for the rating? Also would like to know if the full synthetics or blends that are TC-W3 rated, like Penzoil, will give me any improvement over conventional? Really looking for the best performance and cutting down on some of my smoke, I don't really care about paying 10 bucks a year for some decarb and putting new plugs in every year, I would probably do that anyway. Thanks, Mike.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: synthetic oil

mmcepec: Who knows why manufacture do not get there oils TCW-3 certified. There are some 75+ Outboard oils out there that are not, and Im sure most are fine. I do not think there are manufacturers out there just looking to damage outboards! You would have received better performance out of the JE XD oils, but again, I understand your concerns. Ive received some of the worst recomendations from mechanics (not all) about what oils to use in different applications.<br /><br />The Penzoil blend and full synthetic oils are good oils, but you can do better, I think Royal Purple or the Cam II (as per Forktail) full synthetic oils, to be decent and they are TCW-3 rated. There is no doubt you will receive better all around performance with synthetics! I do not know the corrosion protection these oils offer though!

 

[quantumleap]

Re: synthetic oil

Plenty of different products for plenty of different people!!

 

[Forktail]

Re: synthetic oil

If Johnson/Evinrude specifies (not the same as recommends) their own oils, then they really have no reason to certify them as TC-W3. Basically they are saying that their outboards take a "special" oil, and their oil is the only one that is that "special" oil. I suppose you could look at it as "OEM" oil that can't be found anywhere other than through "OEM". <br /><br />Remember, the outboard manufacturers are going to the NMMA and specifying the oil they need for their engines...oil makers aren't specifying how engines must be designed in order to meet their oils. If the TC-W3 standard does not meet the engine makers needs, then the engine maker has every option to ask for a new standard, or provide their own. The NMMA standards are mainly to make sure oil makers meet the engine manufacturer's specifications for the consumer.<br /><br />Different outbaords are designed to run on different oils. TC-W3 specified outboards appear to run lower cylinder temperatures and require more complete oil "burning" than DFI outboards specifying "special" or "OEM" non-TC-W3 oils.<br /><br />Because oil is "burning" in 2-stroke engines, it must "burn" sufficiently to ensure longevity of the engine. In the case of outboards with lower combustion temperatures, sufficient oil "burning" is more critical than outboards with higher combustion temperature, as oil is easier to burn completely at higher temps. This is true especially at idle/troll. <br /><br />On the other hand, outboard with higher combustion temperatures require an oil that maintains its lubricating properties at extreme temperatures. Complete burning isn't as much of an issue here, as the higher combustion temps tend to "burn" the oil more completely. <br /><br />In short, it is very difficult to get the best of both worlds in outboard 2-stroke oil. Not a big deal with 4-strokes, because the oil isn't designed to be necessarily burned. So different 2-stroke oil specifications simply require different 2-stroke oils. Much like the low-ash and ash-free oils, which are designed for 2-strokes operating at different combustion temps.<br /><br />Synthetic blends can offer a good compromise, and that is their attempt. And a few 100% synthetics will be both TC-W3 rated and DFI rated, depending on their composition.<br /><br />But it is important to point out that just because a synthetic oil works well in a DFI specified outboard, or is recommended for a DFI outboard, does not mean it will work well in a TC-W3 specified outboard. Just as a TC-W3 oil may not work well in a DFI with "special" oil requirements.<br /><br />This why it is important to follow the outboard's specification, and to use a certified oil which meets that specification.<br /><br />One final point, which was brought up ealier, concerns the 100:1 ratio for TC-W3 outboards which some synthetic makers are suggesting. IMO, this is a method of trying to obtain a cleaner burning oil by using less of it, counting on the fact that the synthetic is able to take the heat and wear better.<br /><br />Again, use the specified oil, at the specified rating, at the specified ratio. You won't have a problem.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: synthetic oil

Forktail: Very well put, couldnt have said it better myself.<br /><br />As far as the 100:1 goes, you have to understand that there are no solvents in the 100:1 oil as the 50:1 oils have, thats basically why the bottle is only 8 OZ. Its not really that they expect the synthetics to make up the difference. Solvents are added to help the oil mix easier in the gas. Therefor in actuality you are mixing much closer to the 50:1 than one might think. Ya, I know, still no TCW-3 certification. Personally they would be better off putting solvents in, having it certified, and calling for a mix of 50:1. Wouldt cause near as much turmoil.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: synthetic oil

Ah, I think I understand about the J/E oils now, basically they are making them specifically for their motors and not for anybody else's so there is no reason for certifying it. Now I have heard that the Ficht oil is really good to run in regular carbed motors, such as mine, and was going to give it a shot, but now I think that after this long post and all of this very good information, that regular TCW-3 is the way to go due to the lower cylinder temps. and ring-land temps.. I may still try out a TCW-3 rated full synthetic, and see if I can reduce my smoking a little, but based on alot of this discussion and the prices I will most likely stick to regular Lubrimatic TCW-3. Thanks for all of the info and expertise guys, it was very intersting and educational.

 

[nightstalker]

Re: synthetic oil

Does this mean that the "fat lady sang"?<br />Stalker

 

[Greg New Zealand]

Re: synthetic oil

R.I.P.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: synthetic oil

I'm not trying to start a whole oil thing here, but just really want to know the real deal, if they do protect better and burn cleaner I will deffinetely pay more for them. I have twin 200 Johnsons and they drink oil(and fuel), I usually use reg. oil because it kills my wallet to fill up twin 5 gallon oil tanks with synthetic, but if it is really worth it I will consider it. I love these motors and want them to have the best protection, Thanks alot, Mike.[/QB]

OK, you made a decision, but are you sure you made the right one, The Lubrimatic is a TCW oil, But certainly not the best you can do or even near it. Please at least use the Penzoil blend. Its not that much more and a lot better oil and will curb some of your smoking problem!

 

[muskyone]

Re: synthetic oil

thanks lube dude i just went to amsoils website and bought a gallon of the hp for 21 dollers i think i paid 23 for rude tcw3 oil last year so it's not that pricey

 

[LubeDude]

Re: synthetic oil

Be sure and let us know how you like it. Even if you dont! I can take it. Thats what Im going to run in my Merc 150 when I get it running OK.