Tankless hot water heaters

[ezmobee]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

Your right, a tankless water heater is probably not for you. I have two in my house and I love them. Both are on closed loop recircs and I have instant hot water at every source. I turn on the shower and jump in. I won't be taking cold showers when they start rationing water this summer.

That would be awesome. Another problem at our house is that it take forever to get hot water upstairs.

As for the turning up our existing water heater, I am hesitant to do that as we have a toddler. Our current setting is plenty hot but I believe still cool enough to make it fairly difficult to burn yourself and I think I like it that way. So is the conclusion that a tankless would or would not be a good option for us? How much would it cost to replace our existing electric one with a larger tank gas powervent heater?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

That is spectacularly dangerous advice....for a number of reasons.
Making those kind of adjustments without checking the actual temperature of water being produced is extremely risky. Thermostats on hot water tanks are not very precise.
The maximum output temp at the faucet, that is is recommended by any competent authority, is ~ 140 F.

That should be your target.
If your heater cannot deliver enough water at that temp for your requirements, you need a larger one.

No need to get exited about the adjustment to 100% since that is about 140degrees. The manufacturer recommends adjusting it to your needs up to the hottest setting if you want it that way. All electric units have a built in auto safety shut off with reset button right by the adjusting screw, in case the water gets too hot..

I was not getting excited, just pointing out that your advice, though no doubt well-meaning, borders on reckless.
You advised someone, who you don't know ~ and thus have no knowledge of their technical abilities, to turn their hot water heater thermostat to its maximum.
This also without knowing what sort of plumbing system they have, and despite the caveat that "the builder cut a lot of corners".
You also have no idea who is living in the house....elderly people, young children etc. This is significant for obvious reasons. The OP has since indicated that there are small children, and fortunately that he is tuned in enough to recognise the danger of cranking up the temp.
Also, there are many different regional plumbing codes across North America, and they are updated regularly; to assume that any particular installation is current to the code where you live is a leap of faith that I would never make.
Older equipment, or installations that are different from the setup which you assume to be ubiquitous could be very dangerous if the water heater is turned up to its maximum temp.

You supposed to have mechanical limiters adjusted to your comfort level at the faucet in case you are worried about getting burned from hot water.

I would question how high the percentage of dwellings is that have these....and you don't know whether the OP has them in his place.

And as a real time example, I installed a brand new heater two years ago, purchased from Home Depot.
The thermostat goes as high as 170 F.....that would be 100% to many people. The high temperature cut-out would not be activated at that temp, so you could have 170 F. water at the faucet....

I am sure that was not the intent of your post, but could have been the result.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

When you live in York,NY,you could probably drill a hole in your back yard and cap the natural gas well you just created.Your area is on one big gas bubble!
That being said.Nowadays there are high efficiency natural gas hot water heaters that are very well insulated and at the same time are fuel misers.You can get them with a PVC exhaust system utilizing a small fan whenever the burner goes on.A 40 or 50 gallon unit with a 12 year guarantee runs at about 600 dollars + installation although you can easily do that yourself.
You have to burn a LOT of gas to burn up the difference between $600 and $3000.It would probably take you about 12 years,which is the life expectancy of both systems,meaning that the conventional natural gas is cheaper and it never has a power failure.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

I understand you are thinking about a gas tankless unit, but it may be a lot cheaper and easier to put in an electric tankless unit, or even 2 of them.

No venting, no recirc system, small enough to put in a wall-closet-or under the floor.

My sister put in 2 of them, at opposite ends of her 1800 sq foot ranch home.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

I understand you are thinking about a gas tankless unit, but it may be a lot cheaper and easier to put in an electric tankless unit, or even 2 of them.

I think I'll have to wait and see what happens with the forthcoming electric deregulation before I add anything new electrical.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

That being said.Nowadays there are high efficiency natural gas hot water heaters that are very well insulated and at the same time are fuel misers.You can get them with a PVC exhaust system utilizing a small fan whenever the burner goes on.A 40 or 50 gallon unit with a 12 year guarantee runs at about 600 dollars + installation although you can easily do that yourself.
You have to burn a LOT of gas to burn up the difference between $600 and $3000.It would probably take you about 12 years,which is the life expectancy of both systems,meaning that the conventional natural gas is cheaper and it never has a power failure.

That's what I was afraid of. Looks like it's a tank unit for me. Bummer, I was so looking forward to the extra floor space in the basement

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

One of the possible cost saving features of the tankless system is a little misleading. They claim you're saving money by not keeping a tank full of water hot at all times, this is possibly true. But if your hot water tank is in a heated living space, then all the heat that escapes the tank is used to heat the house and is not wasted, its being recycled. This may only be a factor for part of the year depending on where you live (9 months of heating where I'm located), so figure that into the pay back schedule also

 

[sschefer]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

One of the possible cost saving features of the tankless system is a little misleading. They claim you're saving money by not keeping a tank full of water hot at all times, this is possibly true. But if your hot water tank is in a heated living space, then all the heat that escapes the tank is used to heat the house and is not wasted, its being recycled. This may only be a factor for part of the year depending on where you live (9 months of heating where I'm located), so figure that into the pay back schedule also

Really, so just curious, how's your A/C bill.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

A/C, what's that.

You may have me confused with oops!, In his part of Canada that means "Another Corona" LOL.

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

I understand you are thinking about a gas tankless unit, but it may be a lot cheaper and easier to put in an electric tankless unit, or even 2 of them.

No venting, no recirc system, small enough to put in a wall-closet-or under the floor.

My sister put in 2 of them, at opposite ends of her 1800 sq foot ranch home.

I work at lowes and the electric tankless heaters are JUNK!!! Absulute JUNK!!! They use way too much electric for a marginal gain. They are working on it but still to this date have not come up with one that saves you money in 12 years for the the cost/return. It takes 22 years for you to get a return for a electric tankless. Thats if your heater lasts longer that the 12 years. JUNK!!

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

How well does the tankless handle water that has extremely large amounts of lime, iron, and calcium in the water water? A few aqua fir's in this area can lime up a commercial coffee maker in one month. I can fill a 1 pound coffee can of lime from a 2 gallon tank. I don't call them coffee makers, but a delimer that has a byproduct of coffee. I'm lucky that my house is not in that area, but several of the stores I service does. Even the RO system that was recently put in has problems handling the bad water. Is there a guarantee that they won't lime up?

 

[aspeck]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

I work at lowes and the electric tankless heaters are JUNK!!! Absulute JUNK!!! They use way too much electric for a marginal gain. They are working on it but still to this date have not come up with one that saves you money in 12 years for the the cost/return. It takes 22 years for you to get a return for a electric tankless. Thats if your heater lasts longer that the 12 years. JUNK!!

So, drewmitch, what do you really think about the electric tankless hot water heaters? Are they worth the purchase price? Don't hold anything back ... tell us how you really feel!

 

[sschefer]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

How well does the tankless handle water that has extremely large amounts of lime, iron, and calcium in the water water? A few aqua fir's in this area can lime up a commercial coffee maker in one month. I can fill a 1 pound coffee can of lime from a 2 gallon tank. I don't call them coffee makers, but a delimer that has a byproduct of coffee. I'm lucky that my house is not in that area, but several of the stores I service does. Even the RO system that was recently put in has problems handling the bad water. Is there a guarantee that they won't lime up?

No different than a self cleaning tanked water heater. You need a whole house filtration system to cure your problem. The tankless will generally do better since there is far less time for deposits to settle and adhere but there will still be some residual deposits.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Tankless hot water heaters

I work at lowes and the electric tankless heaters are JUNK!!! Absulute JUNK!!! They use way too much electric for a marginal gain. They are working on it but still to this date have not come up with one that saves you money in 12 years for the the cost/return. It takes 22 years for you to get a return for a electric tankless. Thats if your heater lasts longer that the 12 years. JUNK!!

In theory they should be comparable. In reality, I agree, they are not worth the time. You are better off with a small under cabinet electric tank water heater inline with your normal hot water line to add local storage capacity.