They tore down my dock today

[npd4432]

Well, after 50+ years of being in my family the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission decided that the dock had to be torn down. To give a quick history: The lake and the land is state owned in some areas and private in some areas the area where the dock sat is state owned and every 3 years a "dock inspection" and a permit is issued for the next three years for a $60.00 fee. Two years ago my father passed away and the permit was under his name, when I went to renew it last year the PF&BC denied the application stating they are non-transferable. I called my state representative, state senator, US senator all to no avail, PF&BC stated the dock was not to be re-issued a permit and be torn down. The dock was built in the 40's by my grandfather and was made of concrete and railroad ties, very solid even to this day. Today as I drove by what is now my sisters home, the PF&BC had a backhoe, jackhammer, and a dump truck near the water.

I would like to thank the PF&BC for being so understanding, thoughtful, reasonable, and community orianted for taking the time and to spend $$ to do something that was totally unnecessary.

Also another point to be made is that the dock was totally open to public use for fishing, boating, swimming ect. and fully insured by my family as per the permit requirements.

 

[bowman316]

Re: They tore down my dock today

that makes no sense, i feel for you.

What is the point of tearing down a perfectly good dock, go pave a road or something. That is YOUR property, the waterfront included. If you want to build a dock, you can do so. So when ever a dock owner dies, it has to get torn down?

I see tons of old rickety docks around here.

If i was you , I would have set up some sort of booby trap, before they came. Like put a spike strip down on the approach to the dock. and just say, oh, i forgot about that, guess that's the risk you take when coming onto my property.

 

[Edko]

Re: They tore down my dock today

Unfortunately his dock was located on state owned property, and apprently PA has a permit use process for those structures.

On private property, no they will not come tear your dock down unless it's a navigational hazard. I am pretty sure you need a permit to BUILD one here in MD or get fined. Bulkheads too.

It is a damn shame they went that route with you. Sometimes when dealing with bureaucrat pen pushers, you just can't win. Sorry for your loss.

 

[bowman316]

Re: They tore down my dock today

so is this where you live? was the land state owned?
or just the part over the water?

I know in Md, if you own property bordering water, you own the bottom of the water, but not the actual water. So someone could canoe down a creek past you place, and be legal, but when the touch the bottom, that is being on your property.

 

[npd4432]

Re: They tore down my dock today

The area where the dock was located is Commission owned property which is basically my sisters front yard (across street). There are about 20 other docks located on the Commission property which are all issued 3 year permits for usage. I have spoken with several people and it seems the commission is trying to get rid of the docks by attrition and not re-issuing permits to those who pass on. But my question is why? and nobody has been able to answer that other than "we own the land we can do what we want." There are areas of the same lake where some landowners do own to the waterline and into the waterline as some have stated and they can build and use to their hearts content. It also seems that there are several other permit issued docks which have been issued permits to children as young as 2 years old and multiple persons to avoid this from happening, and if I knew that a few years ago when my father was around I would have put the dock into my 1year old and 2 year olds names but hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[npd4432]

Re: They tore down my dock today

What is the point of tearing down a perfectly good dock, go pave a road or something.

QUOTE]

Well, in PA here is how it goes with the "pave the road" detail.
The Pennsylvaina Fish and Boat Commission is governed by a board of 10 commissioners appoined by the Governor for 8 year terms, the Commission itself is a government entity and does not accept or run on taxpayer dollars. Their budget is from the sale of fishing licenses, boat registrations, ect. They do not answer to the state legislature or to the governers office, they operate within themselves and are governed by the appointed commissioners. So I guess paving roads is out of the question, but they could have used that money to stock fish, repair boat ramps, ect. ect. ect.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: They tore down my dock today

Sometimes these sorts of permits are transferable to persons in an immediate line of descent form the original holder. I see that alot in cases where a structure has been allowed to remain and be used (grandfathered) by a family on land appropriated for a state or federal park. Whether it applies here or not, I have no idea.

You might also want to start finding out who else has been affected. The same is true of those who might be affected in the future. Trying to get a politican to react to a single instance of a problem is usually hard, but going to them en mass can work. This is particularly true if you get the local press involved.

While the decision maker here is an independant board, that doesn't mean you can't apply some political heat. That, I think, is your best bet.

 

[OldePharte]

Re: They tore down my dock today

Man, I would be be so po'd.

So the regulations allow the state to destroy private property without any reimbursement? Did you have the opportunity to salvage any of the materials?

We went through a similar incident with our football tickets. My dad purchased tickets when the local team came into town and held on to them through both the good years and bad. After he and my mother died, I went to transfer them to me. I had to start a new account with no longevity. Basically started as new season ticket holder.

One thing that perhaps would have solved both your and my problems would have been to set up a trust. They can continue on basically forever as the trustees may change, but the trust can last.

We did this for our lake property, dock, and boat.

 

[smclear]

Re: They tore down my dock today

One thing that perhaps would have solved both your and my problems would have been to set up a trust. They can continue on basically forever as the trustees may change, but the trust can last.

We did this for our lake property, dock, and boat.

+1 on that! That is how our lake property is set up. It's been in the family for four generations now. I would hate like heck to see anything become of it. There is also enough cash investments in the trust to pay for property taxes and, to a degree, maintenance. The trust is also set up so that no one other than a direct blood descendant of my Grandfather (original purchaser) can ever serve as a trustee. That way it is protected in case of divorce.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: They tore down my dock today

I'm so sorry to hear that, and sorrier that your state representative was the usual do-nothing. The government is getting bigger and bigger, and our rights, well, you know. Sounds like a heckuva nice pier, one that I'll bet you treasured. A real shame. It sounds like somone was jealous---why else would they want to tear down a nice pier? Was it in the way? Ugly?
JBJ

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: They tore down my dock today

That's too bad. Have they built any handicapped fishing areas?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: They tore down my dock today

a little off the subject, but close. an investor bought an old marina here, one million dollars, he brought in a crane and equipment, and pull up the old piling, the state, and Corp of Engineers declined his permit. the reason, he did work without a permit. if he had just cut off the piling, and spliced on to them, he would have had no problems. we are very short of docking, mooring space here.
he now has some very expensive water front property. that is not in a desirable area.

 

[npd4432]

Re: They tore down my dock today

I'm so sorry to hear that, and sorrier that your state representative was the usual do-nothing. The government is getting bigger and bigger, and our rights, well, you know. Sounds like a heckuva nice pier, one that I'll bet you treasured. A real shame. It sounds like somone was jealous---why else would they want to tear down a nice pier? Was it in the way? Ugly?
JBJ

All was well with the dock. Again my question is Why??? It is something my family did treasure, alot of memories there....it is where I proposed to my wife.

Some of the irony is that I personally know the state rep who tried to help, I did some campain work for him and he also supported my campain for a seat on my local governments board (which I now hold a seat on) The problem rests with the commission itself it is a "hybrid" government entity who basically answer to nobody but themselves.

 

[npd4432]

Re: They tore down my dock today

That's too bad. Have they built any handicapped fishing areas?

Yes, the lake I speak of has a really nice boat launch area, parking area and handicapped fishing area along with a porta-potty and trash recepticles.

 

[npd4432]

Re: They tore down my dock today

Man, I would be be so po'd.

So the regulations allow the state to destroy private property without any reimbursement? Did you have the opportunity to salvage any of the materials?

We went through a similar incident with our football tickets. My dad purchased tickets when the local team came into town and held on to them through both the good years and bad. After he and my mother died, I went to transfer them to me. I had to start a new account with no longevity. Basically started as new season ticket holder.

One thing that perhaps would have solved both your and my problems would have been to set up a trust. They can continue on basically forever as the trustees may change, but the trust can last.

We did this for our lake property, dock, and boat.

I did salvage some of the pressure treated lumber last year after they told me if it were not removed it would be destroyed, but most of the dock was concrete and steel. I will post some before and after pics once I get to my sisters house to get some "after" pics.

 

[npd4432]

Re: They tore down my dock today

Here are some pictures.....

Before

And after..............

And after I cleaned up their mess.....

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: They tore down my dock today

Could it be that a developer is trying to acquire said property for some future development, perhaps ?

 

[npd4432]

Re: They tore down my dock today

Highly doubtful, the commission has never parted with any of their land anywhere in the state.

As I posted earlier it is the belief of most of the landowners around the lake is that the Commission is trying to get rid of all of the docks by attrition.

 

[CN Spots]

Re: They tore down my dock today

Man, that sucks out loud! Not only did you lose the dock, they left you with a lower-end eating rock pile.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: They tore down my dock today

i would call what they left as pollution, have them come remove their pollution and do the job correctly. send pictures to the board a show them the kind of work they do. that job is only 1/2 complete.