Towing with my van

[piper_chuck]

Re: Towing with my van

Listen! I gotta say it! you should only be @ 70% of max tow capacity.

Out of curiosity, is this a fact, or just opinion?

If you want to buy a boat make sure you can you can buy, or have a vehicle that can tow it! if not buy a smaller boat!

Not sure it's been shown that the OP cannot tow his boat, unless one applies some arbitrary limitation on the manufacturer's published towing capacity.

Most people buy a bigger boat that there vehicle can't handle, and then can't buy the proper vehicle to tow it! They'd rather have someone say...Oh yea! I do it! It can handle it! I drive down the road and see some outrageous idiots! and they put me and others in harms way, just so they don't have to buy the proper vehicle.

And the fact that the OP asked, and is obviously listening to the opinions being offered, shows he's not in the category you're ranting about above.

Mini vans are for light loads and passengers, If I recall there called passenger vehicles!

That might be the classification YOU have arbitrarily assigned to them, but the published specs, and the experiences of people who actually have them, clearly show otherwise.

The 2010 T&C, when properly equipped, has a towing capacity of 3600 lbs and a payload capacity of 1200 lbs. Pretty good for something that's (allegedly) only built for "light loads and passengers".

I suspect if you actually TALK to Chrysler you will find that towing is indeed one of the uses for which the T&C is designed. And if you could talk with the engineers, and lawyers, who came up with the towing capacity, you will probably find that the published limit is already a significant percentage lower than what they felt it could safely tow. Undoubtedly they made such a reduction as a house for their donkey.

 

[109jb]

Re: Towing with my van

Listen! I gotta say it! you should only be @ 70% of max tow capacity.

Sounds like another arbitrary unfounded personal opinion. I have a GMC Duramax with a 12000 pound towing capacity. If I gave up 30 percent that would be leaving off 3600 pounds of towing capacity. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Genonbamagirl]

Re: Towing with my van

You may have to make some adjustments. The largest transmission cooler you could get your hands on would be in order. The weak point is the tranny - not the engine.

As for suspension - the sky is the limit. We tow a 16' aluminum boat all over the place with a taurus. The rear end sagged pretty bad on us so we loosend the clamps on the struts (rear) and jacked the rear about a couple inches in the air. it stays level when towing now. Look at your struts and your sway bar setup to see if you can do a similar thing.

 

[Genonbamagirl]

Re: Towing with my van

Wow, this is becoming a big thread. For those concerned about safety (not wear & tear on the vehicle) and are adament about towing close to the max limit, I hope you are as adament regarding drinking and driving/boating, speeding, tailgating,... Hopefully you request others that drive dangerously not to use any public roadways and utilize mass transit. I've responded to hundreds, if not thousands, of traffic collisions and more than 95% did not include a towed vehicle. Most were non-commercial vehicles driven by morons that don't care about others and don't pay attention to what they're doing. Whoever stated that we must drive with caution and defensively is right.

I agree that a vehicle's max limit means that it's safe to drive prudently with that load. I just don't know how much faster it will wear the engine, brakes, & trans. I originally really wanted to know about premature wearing vehicle parts.

By the way, what I really like about this forum the free advice from people. It's great that a novice can gather so much information from so many people. I do, however, feel it's important to be polite to everyone and if someone is doing something unsafe, use it as a teaching/learning experience so everyone is happier and safer.

Thanks for the info guys.

There will always be people who say you can't do this or that. Pay more attention to the manufacturer's warnings. They build and warraunty the things so they build in a safety factor. Braking is always an issue when towing - try it out in an area that is free of obstructions. This is not rocket science.

Ideally, anyone towing anything would have a 1 ton truck and trailer brakes. That's not always a viable option.

 

[Philster]

Re: Towing with my van

And what exactly do you tow that 26'er that you have with....

...
.

My Scarab is towed by a Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi with factory tow package (the max tow package w/8900 lbs towing capacity). The boat is 4900 lbs dry. The trailer is 1250 and has four-wheel braking.

She holds 80 gallons of gas when full. Loaded up, I am a little under 7000 lbs. A buddy and I usually haul her 100 miles in Spring and 100 miles in fall.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Towing with my van

My Scarab is towed by a Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi with factory tow package (the max tow package w/8900 lbs towing capacity). The boat is 4900 lbs dry. The trailer is 1250 and has four-wheel braking.

She holds 80 gallons of gas when full. Loaded up, I am a little under 7000 lbs. A buddy and I usually haul her 100 miles in Spring and 100 miles in fall.

Gear adds up, I bet you are a little over 7K. Either way, you are under your max an OK in my book. Others will say that you have exceeded 70% of your capacity and are therefore unsafe.

I tow alot and I tow heavy so I know about capacities and abilities of a two vehicle. I still say that if you are within the limites, regardless of the vehicle, you are OK...

Happy Towing...

 

[jdsgrog]

Re: Towing with my van

If you read what is included in the tow package, it seems to be about the potential failure of the engine, transmission, and suspension (wear on the car). All of this, of course, is considered into the safety of the vehicle. The 3.3l seems to be made primarily for the passengers and payload, whereas the engineers took into consideration that people may tow larger trailers with the minivan when considering the 3.8l (and now the 4.0l).

Personally, I've carried a full load of cargo and people in my grand caravan with my boat behind it without issue and everything stopped and started fine(maybe about 2000lbs total with my boat, cargo, and people). And I don't have a tow package. But again, I stayed within the specs given by the car manual. I've done the same thing with my subaru forester maybe going about 500-600lbs over the stated specs (that is without the tow package). No problem there either (and that was a 6 hour trip one way).

No doubt that the towing will put wear and tear on the vehicle, but it's only a single 400 mile round trip, so I am assuming it will be negligible. However, the bigger concern is twofold, whether there can be failure of the brakes, engine, or transmission DUE TO THE LOAD and if it compromises the safety of your family which also compromises the safety of all on the road.

Though I know you made your decision, but maybe hook the boat up, and drive it around town first and a short highway trip and see how it feels. But one thing for sure, if your wife or anyone who's driving doesn't feel very comfortable with driving that load, it's best not to do it because part of driving is confidence.

 

[Bronc Rider]

Re: Towing with my van

The 2010 T&C, when properly equipped, has a towing capacity of 3600 lbs and a payload capacity of 1200 lbs. Pretty good for something that's (allegedly) only built for "light loads and passengers".

A minivan is without a doubt only designed for "light loads and passengers". Those specs you wrote are minuscule to what a modern half ton truck will pull. Its definitely ONLY designed for light loads and passengers, no buts? or if's about it.


The van CAN pull what the manufacturer designed it for. I'm not real clear if the op's rig is within the manufactures range though. If its within range, I would tow it with no problems. If it exceeds it, bad idea to even consider it. There is not a single piece of equipment that anyone can buy to change the manufactures max tow rating.

 

[TerryMSU]

Re: Towing with my van

A minivan is without a doubt only designed for "light loads and passengers". Those specs you wrote are minuscule to what a modern half ton truck will pull. Its definitely ONLY designed for light loads and passengers, no buts? or if's about it.


The van CAN pull what the manufacturer designed it for. I'm not real clear if the op's rig is within the manufactures range though. If its within range, I would tow it with no problems. If it exceeds it, bad idea to even consider it. There is not a single piece of equipment that anyone can buy to change the manufactures max tow rating.

That is your opinion. Have you seen the design specifications for the vehicle? Have you ever designed anything that required any complex stress analysis calculations? If it is rated for a 1200 pound payload, it is equivalent in load capacity to a "half ton" pickup. (1200 pounds is a little more than 1/2 ton.)

The manufacturer has a definate stake in rating these things properly. Rate them too low and you loose sales, rate them too high and you loose warantee costs. You can trust what the manufacturer says the vehicle can handle. Now if you are talking about having wimpy performance, that is another question. That 3.3L van will probably tow like a sick dog, but as far as safety that is another question. You may even sacrifice some long term (after the warrantee runs out) reliability, but that is again a different point.

TerryMSU

 

[Bronc Rider]

Re: Towing with my van

That is your opinion. Have you seen the design specifications for the vehicle? Have you ever designed anything that required any complex stress analysis calculations? If it is rated for a 1200 pound payload, it is equivalent in load capacity to a "half ton" pickup. (1200 pounds is a little more than 1/2 ton.)

The manufacturer has a definate stake in rating these things properly. Rate them too low and you loose sales, rate them too high and you loose warantee costs. You can trust what the manufacturer says the vehicle can handle. Now if you are talking about having wimpy performance, that is another question. That 3.3L van will probably tow like a sick dog, but as far as safety that is another question. You may even sacrifice some long term (after the warrantee runs out) reliability, but that is again a different point.

TerryMSU

Even if you buy a half ton truck with a small engine the payload capacity will be better. For example, an 09 f150 with the smallest engine available can carry 1700lbs and 2000lbs with the bigger engine. Easily trumps the minivans capacity.
We are not really discussing carrying the boat on the roof either so towing capacity is whats important. Thats where you can separate a work vehicle from a grocery getter. The only vans that have high tow ratings are the body on frame type. Minivans are for comfort/commuting, trucks are for working.
The towing capacity tells the story. Minivan is for light loads, trucks are for big loads. The numbers are huge between them. Most half tons are 9000lbs plus towing capacity.
I wasn't saying the op couldn't use his van. He can, as long as he is under max towing capacity.

 

[piper_chuck]

Re: Towing with my van

A minivan is without a doubt only designed for "light loads and passengers". Those specs you wrote are minuscule to what a modern half ton truck will pull. Its definitely ONLY designed for light loads and passengers, no buts? or if's about it.

This thread is not about half ton trucks, it's about whether the subject minivan can or cannot tow the OP's boat. Someone asserted it wasn't designed to tow and that assertion has yet to be proven.

The van CAN pull what the manufacturer designed it for. I'm not real clear if the op's rig is within the manufactures range though. If its within range, I would tow it with no problems. If it exceeds it, bad idea to even consider it. There is not a single piece of equipment that anyone can buy to change the manufactures max tow rating.

Correct, sorta. If the minivan wasn't equipped with the tow package the max is somewhere under 2,000 lbs. Add the tow package and the max will go higher.

 

[piper_chuck]

Re: Towing with my van

Even if you buy a half ton truck with a small engine the payload capacity will be better. For example, an 09 f150 with the smallest engine available can carry 1700lbs and 2000lbs with the bigger engine. Easily trumps the minivans capacity.

Sure, if hauling cargo is the ONLY thing one is going to use the vehicle for. I seriously doubt my daughters would have enjoyed riding in the bed of said F150 on our recent trip to Florida and back.

We are not really discussing carrying the boat on the roof either so towing capacity is whats important. Thats where you can separate a work vehicle from a grocery getter. The only vans that have high tow ratings are the body on frame type. Minivans are for comfort/commuting, trucks are for working.

And we also weren't discussing the optimum tow and/or cargo vehicle, the thread was about whether the OP's minivan can tow his fairly heavy boat.

The towing capacity tells the story. Minivan is for light loads, trucks are for big loads. The numbers are huge between them. Most half tons are 9000lbs plus towing capacity.

Only when equipped with gas guzzling engines and gear ratios. When equipped with similar sized engines, when available, the max capacity is significantly lower.

I wasn't saying the op couldn't use his van. He can, as long as he is under max towing capacity.

Then why the argument?

 

[Bronc Rider]

Re: Towing with my van

Gas guzzling mileage? Not really that bad when compared to a minivan. My wifes truck, a GMC Sierra 315hp 5.3L v8 with cylinder deactivation hardly gave up anything in mileage to a minivan. It got between 22-24 hwy mpg and about 16 city. A little worse than a minivans but, not enough to consider the truck a guzzler and the minivan efficient. Both would fall in the guzzler category imo.

Loaded I suspect its just like boats. You will require about the same HP to move the same load. Mileage should be the same or better in the truck. If I used the wifes truck to move my boat I would leave over drive on since the boat was so far below the trucks towing capacity (boat was 4000#'s the truck could pull 9800#'s). I bet I got better mileage than someone in a van with OD off because they were worried about cooking their transmission.

I wasn't arguing. I was pointing out that the person that thought a minivan wasn't a light duty tow vehicle was wrong. A minivan IS a light duty tow vehicle.

Will it make you feel better if I say a minivan is a rugged, serious tow vehicle? (we are making this a silly thread, I don't want to reply again)
Ok, its a freaking hardcore, most awesome thing to tie up a load to. I will sell my 3/4 ton and the wifes 1/2 ton. I will replace them with the serious, rugged towing machines, minivans. My little dozer will be proud being pulled behind such a work horse.

 

[Tubingluvr]

Re: Towing with my van

I used to tow my 17' bowrider 2.5 I/O with a Dodge Caravan but when I went up to a 18.5 bowrider 4.3 I/O I had to change my tow vehicle.

 

[frankie g]

Re: Towing with my van

Listen! I gotta say it! you should only be @ 70% of max tow capacity. If you want to buy a boat make sure you can you can buy, or have a vehicle that can tow it! if not buy a smaller boat! Most people buy a bigger boat that there vehicle can't handle, and then can't buy the proper vehicle to tow it! They'd rather have someone say...Oh yea! I do it! It can handle it! I drive down the road and see some outrageous idiots! and they put me and others in harms way, just so they don't have to buy the proper vehicle. Mini vans are for light loads and passengers, If I recall there called passenger vehicles!

By the time you add all your "stuff", fuel, water, food, gear, toys, etc plus people, that 30 % will be eaten up pretty fast. and most people FIGURE there weight wrong ...including the manufacture dry weight, trust me I've know many guys that said that the manufacture said one thing and when brought to the scales...different story. load up for a day of fishing or boating with the normal load and stop at a truck scale and you'll get the true numbers. Boat, trailer, motor.... I bet your figures are wrong...unless you have already brought your rig to the scales already. And yes! I'm conservative, and safe for myself, my passengers and the other people on the road. I'll buy the right tow vehicle instead of chancing it! I'll say it again your to close for safety!

 

[109jb]

Re: Towing with my van

By the time you add all your "stuff", fuel, water, food, gear, toys, etc plus people, that 30 % will be eaten up pretty fast. and most people FIGURE there weight wrong ...including the manufacture dry weight, trust me I've know many guys that said that the manufacture said one thing and when brought to the scales...different story. load up for a day of fishing or boating with the normal load and stop at a truck scale and you'll get the true numbers. Boat, trailer, motor.... I bet your figures are wrong...unless you have already brought your rig to the scales already. And yes! I'm conservative, and safe for myself, my passengers and the other people on the road. I'll buy the right tow vehicle instead of chancing it! I'll say it again your to close for safety!

First you said - "Listen! I gotta say it! you should only be @ 70% of max tow capacity."

Then you said "By the time you add all your "stuff", fuel, water, food, gear, toys, etc plus people, that 30 % will be eaten up pretty fast."

You aren't telling clearly what you mean. If you mean that the boat+trailer weight should only be 70% so that you can put 30% more weight of additional stuff in the boat, then essentially are you saying its OK to go up to a loaded 100% of the manufacturers listed towing capacity. I just can't tell what you are really trying to say. Also, you are assuming that the extra "stuff" will be hauled in the boat. The OP stated that he would be following the van/boat with the truck/camper. Maybe he intended to put the extra "stuff" in the bed of the truck or in the camper. If that is the case, the extra stuff doesn't come into play. Oh and by the way you listed people in your above statement. The people won't be in the trailer so wouldn't count for towed weight, but should be included in GCVWR as I mentioned in a previous post.

Bottom line is that the driver needs to know the weight of his rig as he is the responsible party. If his loaded trailer weight (as towed and with any extra stuff) is truly at or below the manufacturers listed towing capacity (for the specific vehicle) and the trailer is equipped (ie: brakes, etc.) as the vehicle manufacturer states it should be for that weight, and the total combined weight of van/trailer is below the GCVWR then he is fine in my opinion.

It does no good to argue whether a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck can tow better than the minivan when the original question was simply whether the minivan could do it. We could take this out farther and farther to no useful end. The minvan can tow, but a 1/2 ton can tow better, and a 3/4 ton can tow better yet, and a 1 ton even better. How about one of those 3-ton box trucks. I bet they would do even better yet. There is always a better vehicle for towing but I say if the loaded trailer weight is below the vehicle manufacturers listed maximum and GCVWR is adhered to the vehicle in question can tow the trailer.

 

[frankie g]

Re: Towing with my van

Ya know what! knock your self out! go ahead and tow with that van. When something bad happens, oh well. the numbers he stated were way to close. I'm done.

 

[paulspaddle]

Re: Towing with my van

I think you should talk to this guy, he seems very comfortable with towing capacity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DosWV-RuFDQ

 

[df909]

Re: Towing with my van

Guys- this had nothing to do with "will my vehicle be safe if I tow or can I exceed the towing capacity." It was a questions of how much faster will I wear out the vehicle. In fact, it was even mentioned that there would be no people or cargo in the van or boat.

The thread seemed to take a turn in a direction that was not the original intent. Thanks for the advice for those that stayed on course & those that were trying to really help.

 

[jkust]

Re: Towing with my van

I have some first hand experience here. I towed my Chaparral which is a heavier load than the poster's load the first year I bought it with my 2000 Oldsmobile Silhouette, 3.4 liter engine 185 hp, 205lb tourque, fwd, tow package - 3500lb capacity with auto air suspension. The van had almost 120,000 miles on it and has been well used but maintained and the specs by todays standards are a joke. Will your more powerful, newer, more robust minivan tow it? Of course it will. It will tow great at highway speeds as well due to the long wheel base. A dry ramp will be absolutly no problem either though you mentioned not loading with the van, but you don't hardly have to even touch the gas pedal and for me my massive 205lbs or torque was way more than enough up even the steepest ramps around.
To your question, I think it will wear out 5x more quickly than a van that didn't tow anything. I upgraded to a robust SUV after season 1 of towing the boat and I am glad I did. Sounds like your interest is not in the safety, etc of a van versus something else but rather how fast you will wear out your van. At a certain point responsibility and the stress factor come front and center on your mind towing heavy loads with a minivan.