trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

ok it is a complete system. how ever, i did not see the relays....... which means that you will have some wiring to do....... one more thing, i cannot see clear in the pictures weather it is a 2 or 3 wire motor..... it is a little different installing the wire...

i have line indicate the installation of the TNT. first you remove the two holding rods, if you look at the next pictures, it is ho they look like. the you remove the 3 screws. the complete TNT system should come righ off. Then you install it to your OB.

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

that is a 3w system. it is intended to wire directly to a heavy duty switch using 12/3 cable for the entire loop including a 12awg or larger power feed from battery to console switch.

You can eliminate large wiring by installing either relays or solenoids. If you use relays then you will have to modify the wiring so that they behave like solenoids (solenoids only switch a wire to 12v or open circuit. they do not make any other connection since they are intended for devices with chassis ground. If you connect a 3w motor to a relay with grounded NC connector then you will burn out the motor or wiring)

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

Whew! I didn't realize that it wasn't the two wire system. Thanks RRitt for pointing that out. I do recall a previous posting that you wrote about the differences between a 2 vs. 3 wire system. Sounds like I can still wire it up like a 2 wire system though. Calming, since I went ahead and also bought on eBay the relays, circut breaker and wiring (for the two wire system) as seen in the attachment below. RRitt, I'm hoping that other than the switches I plan to pick up, I have all that I need.

What kind of switches are recommended? Where to find them?

If I'm going to all this trouble of adding a TNT system (I'll most often be squeezing in a few early morning hours of bass fishing 7 mins from the house... most of my boating will be solo which is where the TNT will help greatly), then I want to make it as useful as possible by adding both a console switch and and a transom switch. My plan was to prepare and mount the unit (I'm going to have to find RRitt's post on "how to prepare the TNT before install") and hook up just enough of the wiring to test that the unit works well per the seller's description. Then I'll do the full wiring install.

So what do I do with the "third/extra wire"?
Tips and tricks always appreciated.

Thanks,

Al

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

install the solenoids to control the power, you will need two. use all 3 wire. when you use the solenoids it will shorten the big cable that you need compare to wiring it up directly to the switch also you can get cheap switch, i got mine switch from radio shack for $5. If you already get the relays, you can use it too, I think you only use 4 pins on the relay instaed of 5. you can have 2 set of switch one for front and one for back. I didn't use one for the back because my boat is only 17" and I can see clearing when the motor is from the front. I may install one later though.

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

huh?

3w motors use chassis ground to black wire. blue and green wires should never, ever, EVER be grounded on a 3w motor. blue is up and green is down.

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

huh?

3w motors use chassis ground to black wire. blue and green wires should never, ever, EVER be grounded on a 3w motor. blue is up and green is down.

What? i didn't ask him to ground the blue or green cable, right? did I?

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

What? i didn't ask him to ground the blue or green cable, right? did I?

i'm not really sure what you were telling him to do. I got confused.

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

i'm not really sure what you were telling him to do. I got confused.

oh, sorry my english is not good, it is not my first language. All I am saying is that don't wire the TNT motor straight to the switch, it is better to use solenoids. Also he mention "Sounds like I can still wire it up like a 2 wire system though". So i said he need to use all 3 wires. as of black to the ground and blue and green to the positive to control the motor, one at a time ofcause.

.... now I am confuse if i even said the right thing. I better shut up now before I help this guy blow up his TNT motor

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

BGod and RRitt,

thanks for the help. As soon as I receive all the parts from the ebay sellers, I'll have a better understanding what the instructions are. I should receive them by mid week next week.

Thanx again,

Al

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

oh, sorry my english is not good, it is not my first language. All I am saying is that don't wire the TNT motor straight to the switch, it is better to use solenoids. Also he mention "Sounds like I can still wire it up like a 2 wire system though". So i said he need to use all 3 wires. as of black to the ground and blue and green to the positive to control the motor, one at a time ofcause.

.... now I am confuse if i even said the right thing. I better shut up now before I help this guy blow up his TNT motor

You had it right. He can't wire a 3w motor right up to a wiring harness designed for 2w motors. It will cause damage to the motor and wiring. 2W motors do not have a common ground. They flip polarity across armature to reverse direction. 3W motors do have a common ground. They have a forward and a reverse electromagnet connected in series with the armature. If you connect ground to either green or blue then you will energize both electromagnets at same time. Motor can not spin in both directions at same time. It will freeze up and burn out.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

Update....


Ok, got the TNT from the eBay seller. I'm supposed to receive the eBay relay set up today. As you can see from the pics the seller put it in a wooden frame so not only was it easy to work on, but it was also easy to see that, as the seller said, it was not exposed to saltwater. I suppose I should have tested it right then by temporarily connecting, one at a time, the blue and then the green wire to a 12v power source (the black wire to ground), but I didn't since I wanted to make sure I could take the unit off of the transom bracket. I first unbolted the upper rod that connects the transom bracket to the engine back plate and then suspended the fluid reservoir with a bungie as I removed the three bolts that attach it to the transom bracket. Next I removed the lower bar that holds the TNT in place in the transom bracket, and took off the transom bracket arms. This made it possible to remove the upper bar that holds the pistons in place. No heat, no pounding, just a couple of box wrenches and the whole TNT was free.

Now for the test. I just want to make sure it responds to power. I'm going to "alligator clip and small wire" the blue (to the positive battery pole) and the black to the negative to see it move for a moment. I'll do the same to the green. Again, I want to see it move.

I plan to clean up the unit a bit and re-paint to match the rest of the white on the motor and mount (it's been a garage kept boat by the previous owner so they're in great shape). Before I install the TNT, I'll make sure the rods slide in easily through both the pistons, the transom bracket and engine mount. I'll also soften up the paint that's in the threads, where the three bolts secure the fluid reservoir to the transom bracket, with some acetone and then use a tap to clean the rest of the paint out. I plan to use Blue Lock-tite on these bolts and the nuts at the end of the two rods. I'll then mount the TNT and install the relays and hook it up to a console switch.

I'll refer to the checklist above for checking the TNT and topping off the fluid level.

Anything else to keep in mind while I do the above?

More soon.

Thanx,

Al

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

the motor frame is plain steel. where the paint has been knocked off clean it with solvent and then paint it. i like PPG wax & grease remover but coleman fuel (white gas) does a bang up job too. Other solvents might harm existing paint if its a lacquer. duplicolor self etch primer is the best aerosol i have found for sticking to aluminum. so if you have some bare aluminum showing then a quick shot of self etch wouldn't hurt. Primer is not waterproof - it just makes the paint stick. regular paint does not stick to metal very well and aluminum in particular. So you'll want to put real paint on top of the primer.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

Here's how to hook up a three wire motor to the relays.: Note that the HEAVY power grounds are not attached (Two heavy black wires attached to each other at the ring terminal) They have a piece of shrink tubing over them for insulation.

The two fine black ground wires are grounded as they only ground the eletromagnet inside the relays and the relays will not switch without them grounded.

The black wire from the MOTOR (does not show) is run to a ground on the bypass port cover while green to green and blue to blue. I did not want to cut a hole in the lower cowling so I ran the tilt motor wire up through the intake.

The heavy red wires are power to the relays. With this arrangement, you do not need the cable to the dash and all you need to run is 16 or 18 pair wire from the switch to the relays. Notice that I used a black and white electronic cable but anything will do. Speaker wire is good also. Power the switch from the "B" terminal of the ignition switch to the center terminal of the M-O-M switch. Green is the upper terminal and blue is the lower.

The center relay is just an extra in case one fails while I am on the water.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

Just waiting for my relays to arrive. I'll report back on the install when they do. In the meantime, I'm getting everyting cleaned up and ready.

Al

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

OK got the relays.

As you can see I also have two small boxes attached other than the relays.

The wiring goes?

1. I have a pair of thick black wires from each relay that are each bound to a circle clip. Where do both of these get fasten to? Where is the ring terminal?
2. The black wire from the TNT gets fastened to a bolt on the ?bypass port cover?. Where is the bypass port cover?
3. I?ll also run the blue and green wire from the TNT up the intake. I attach the blue wire to the blue/white wire from the relay. Same for the green and green/white- Correct?
4. The two thick red/orange wires from the relays are joined together and fastened to a bolt on the black box (circuit breaker?). What do I do with the ends of the other red/orange wires that you see in the pic?
5. Where do I connect the speaker-type wires from the console switch?
6. What is the silver box?

Thanks for all the help,

Al

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

Update #2,

I went through some earlier posts and notes I culled from other threads about TNT unit installs. I now have almost all the answers I need save one or two.

1. I have to add a blue wire and female clip to the plug that goes with the relay containing the blue and white wire and connect this new blue wire to the blue wire from the TNT unit. Likewise with a new green wire and clip to the green wire from the TNT unit.

2. The blue/white and green/white wires are what I connect to the (speaker-type) signal wire going to the ends of the console switch to control up or down.

3. The black ground wires go to a grounded bolt on the engine block.

4. Based on Frank's most recent post, I'm confused about his mention of one pair of black wires not being connected (to a ground)? Is this correct? If it is which pair?

5. The single red-orange wire on the other side of the circut breaker is connected to the battery side of the "solenoid". What is the solenoid? Where exactly do I connect this wire?

6. I still need to know what the additional silver box is for and where I connect the red-orange wire that is attached to it?

Thanx,

Al

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

Silver box is a circuit breaker it is not the re-settable kind so if it pops, you need to wait until it cools to get power again. Better but not absolutely necessary to replace it with the black plastic box with the reset button. Scratch that! You already have the plastic circuit breaker. It appears that the silver one was added to power something else. You don't need it or the red wire attached to it, just the black one and its wire.

Red is connected to the battery side of the starter solenoid. This is a direct connection to the battery. This provides constant power with the engine on or off so you can use tilt while the boat is on the trailer.

Yes, a blue and a green power wire is missing from your harness. They have spade type ends that lock into the plastic plug so you need to get the specific wire. Send me your email address in a private message. I may have some wires with terminals attached (in different colors) that you can use. You can have them for just postage. Where are you located?

I forgot: I wire my own relays and they are slightly different than the factory wiring harness.

Your relays EACH have the signal and power ground attached to each other with a ring terminal. You have three options---You must separate the two black wires on each relay and test to see which is to motor power ground and which is the signal ground. OR: If you look on the top of the relay, there will be a schematic listing the terminal numbers and what they do. Pull the relay from the socket and on the bottom each spade terminal will be numbered. Do not use the one that is default ground. You also have the option of bending or clipping that terminal on the relay.

Unfortunately, I am not at home or I could get a relay and tell you the numbers. If you want to wait until this afternoon, I can come back with the actual relay terminal numbers.

Don't worry about ruining a relay. They are standard ones used in almost every older auto and can be found in junkyards for free or you can spend the 15-20 bucks for each one. Junkyard relays will not have the plastic mounting ears.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

Frank,

Thanks for the reply.

I have another solution for solving the missing wire. It sounds like I have to disconnect (and not use) the extra ground wire from the plug anyway. How about I insert an eyeglass screwdriver, push down the tab and release the extra black ground wire and clip. I'll then re-color the wire blue and reinstall it in the correct space on the socket. Only the space at the bottom of the socket with the slot going north and south is empty. I'm assuming that the blue or green power wire was meant to go in there. I'll then repeat the same process for the green wire. In this way I don't need to acquire anything.

What do you think?

Looking at the relay with the blade numbers visible and corresponding plug wires, the pattern is:

At the 12 o'clock #87 (red wire), 9 o'clock #86 (black wire), at the center #87a (black wire) , 3 o'clock #85 (blue/white) , 6 o'clock #30 (empty).

The new wire (blue or green) would seem to go in the 6 o'clock #30 position.

Which # black wire can I recycle and re-color?

Thanks,

Al

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

hope the pictures come through. only real difference between is that NC pin 87a is disconnected to convert a 2w harness to 3w operation. If you leave pin87a connected then your motor will fry.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

RRitt,

So I'll remove the center black wire and connector (87a), re-color it to blue, install it in the #30 position (6 o'clock).

I'll then do the same on the other plug to create a green wire.

Correct?

thanks,

Al