trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

[birdgod]

Hi, I have a spectrum 1700 with 1989 force 85hp ob. I am thinking about installing a power trim and tilt system to it because my wife like to take it out but the motor is too heavy for her to lift while in the water. Can someone please let me know what to get?

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

the oil tubing is bent to match the fluid reservoir. That prevents you from mixing and matching between systems. Otherwise anything for 85HP and larger made before 1992 will fit your engine. Most of the 1992 will fit, but just stick with 1991 and earlier to avoid confusion. 3w systems go directly to the switch. They are very easy to install but require expensive, heavy wire and do not tolerate weak batteries. 2w system will need a wiring sub-harness for the relays. However, once installed, they are a better system that has fewer problems and is more tolerant of weak battery.

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

the oil tubing is bent to match the fluid reservoir. That prevents you from mixing and matching between systems. Otherwise anything for 85HP and larger made before 1992 will fit your engine. Most of the 1992 will fit, but just stick with 1991 and earlier to avoid confusion. 3w systems go directly to the switch. They are very easy to install but require expensive, heavy wire and do not tolerate weak batteries. 2w system will need a wiring sub-harness for the relays. However, once installed, they are a better system that has fewer problems and is more tolerant of weak battery.

I am sorry, you lost me at "the oil tubing is bent to match the fluid reservoir."
I am a newbie...... can you point me to a web with the product?

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

go to craiglist or ebay.and look for anything from 1972 to 1991 85hp through 150HP

buy a complete system. complete systems fit any boat. parts between systems are not interchangeable.

don't buy anything from within 150 miles of ocean. Avoid saltwater like the plague. Even a single trip to the ocean can cause lasting problems.

it will probably need rebuilding. They only last 15-25 years depending upon fluid and maintenance. If somebody says it "works great" then that plus a dollar buys you a cup of coffee.

you can do the rams yourself for $25 in your backyard with the engine still on boat. Takes about 1/2 day on freshwater. Rams + motor + valve body = new system. Don't mess with the motor/valve body. Just buy new ($350) or swap it out whole for a reman ($200).

They also sell aftermarket trim system such CNC and the like. They are okay systems. But they require taking engine off boat and remounting onto their kicker plate. It's less work and less money to rebuild the factory system and, IMO, the original is still a better system.

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

thanks, i will look on ebay.

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/84-91-MERCURY-FORCE-85HP-TILT-TRIM-SYSTEM-RELAYS-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5adb149c24QQitemZ390222617636QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear

will this work? is it complete? I currently have no power trim and tilt on my ob.

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

It is too expensive for even a perfect used system that does not have a new or recently rebuilt pump assy (motor + valve body). They only last about 20 years. Rubber gets old and dies. The pump starts bleeding off pressure and the motor stops being waterproof. They usually go out within a year or two of each other. It just happens and can not be avoided. Poor care can shorten it to 15 years and great care can extend it to 25. Anything outside that range is a fluke of nature.

A motor is $180 and a valve body is $220. You'll be needing both within a few years.

But even with age and an impending $400-$600 repair bill put aside .... I would not touch this system with a ten foot pole. It is from Jacksonville, FL and it is still mounted onto transom clamps. A system still mounted on transom clamps is not worth as much as a system without the clamps. The system without clamps will not have any corrosion. The system with clamps usually does. A seller usually includes the clamps simply because they are fused onto the shaft and he could not get them off. You can not see galvanic corrosion in pictures. It happens inside the threads and junctions. It is a safe bet that if the clamps won't come off then the trim housing, tilt heads, and port threads will have problems too. Galvanic corrosion will add another $300-$1200 to your already inevitable $400 repair bill. It should be noted that I rarely see any galvanic corrosion from Colorado or Great Lakes region. I always see it from anything near the ocean. I sometimes see it on freshwater boats from the KS-OK-TX region. There must be some type of mineral in the soil that dissolves into the water around there. Great Lakes and Rocky Mountain systems are the best ones to buy.

This is a much better system because you'll probably get another 5-10 years from the pump assy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180561585504

But it will have red fluid that you will need to drain out and replace with hydraulic oil. The ATF has probably already done some damage to the orings so you should take a couple hours and rebuild the rams while it is off the boat.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220665784961

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

thanks for the info, i will get it accordingly.

 

[yonipainting]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

Does anybody have a photo of this system mounted on the motor?

 

[jason32038]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

I was thinking about getting a used trim system also but Ive decided to go with a new jack plate instead. Less problems in the long run. Like this example http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/31656-hydraulic-all-one-jacking-plate-6-setback-rocker-switch.html

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

If you properly rebuild the Force system and fill with hydraulic oil before installing it will last 20-25 years. The cost is well under $500 Including buying a used freshwater system and then rebuilding. I never did see the sense in using jack-plates just to get trim. They cost more, don't work as well, don't last as long, and are much more difficult to install. However, if you do need to remount your engine away from transom then jack plates are great.

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

got one from ebay for $230 and it come good, a little dirty but good. I installed it to my 85hp ob and it works good. Before I install it i can hit 30mph, and after installation i can go 33mph. not too much gain but i can feel my boat being lighter, and it was tested on a windy lake so it might go a little faster. since this power trim and tilt is bulit for my motor, the installation is real easy. just install the two pin and some wire and the remove the manual trim lock and it is all done. One thing I am not sure is that weather to remove the engine lock when the engine tilt to the hightest point the is a lock that will drop and hold the motor in positon. I am thinking i should as it seem unless for it to be there.

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

whenever storing or towing the engine lock, trailer bar, or length of 2x4 wood should be used. It is possible to hit a big enough pothole to either pop open the bypass or blow out a seal. If you store or park with a bracket then you can add many years to the life of your trim system. And finally, if possible, if you can store the trim motor shielded from ozone, UV, or rain exposure it will last longer.

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

whenever storing or towing the engine lock, trailer bar, or length of 2x4 wood should be used. It is possible to hit a big enough pothole to either pop open the bypass or blow out a seal. If you store or park with a bracket then you can add many years to the life of your trim system. And finally, if possible, if you can store the trim motor shielded from ozone, UV, or rain exposure it will last longer.

I use the original bracket for towing. since the lock is gone, I use a rubber tie down to sercure the motor to the bracket. it work well that way.

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

BDog,

I want to do the exact same thing you just did. This is my first boat and will likely sneak out to the lake 50% of the time solo (7 mins from the water) to catch some early morning bass before I have to start making my calls. Having the power tilt will make the mornings just that much simpler launching and loading.

I just bought a used OEM unit for my 1983 Force 85HP. The seller said that it would be a direct bolt on and "works good". I hope so. I didn't happen to read this thread before I bid on the unit.

What steps did you take to install it?
How did you move/lift the motor to install it?
How did you wire it up?
What did you do for a trim gauge?
Where did you wire up the switch and relays?
It sounds like to just installed it without rebuilding or replacing anything, correct?

The OEM unit I just won the bidding on was on a 125HP and came with the clamps , but it came from Fridley, MN so I hope I don't have any issues with getting what I need to off.

Anyone with info, please feel free to chime in.

Thanks for the help.

Al

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

My boat is in my guarage that is why it is very hard for me to take picture unless i take out the whole boat. I will do that in a couple of days as i am going fishing.
here is some picture that i can take.

First of all, i think force motor is built with the options for power trim and tilt so all the wiring should be already in place like mine. My boat even have a up and down trim switch hole up front , so all i need to do is to install the switch. please send me the link to the trim system you buy and I will see if you everything you need.


the two wite arrows point to the green/white and blue/white cable. you should have that cable in your ob already.

Steps that i took.
1) make sure the trim work. but hooking the motor up to a 12 v.
2) have a friend put in the pin to hold the trim body while i hold it in position. one peoson can do it just take a little longer.
3) make sure all the screws are in.
4) bring the relays into the ob and you should see all the holes for screws to how the realy and breaker.
5) link the blue and green wire to the pre wire in the ob.
6) install a switch (MM-on off MM-on) 12v in the middle.
7) test again and done....

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

BGod,

Thanks for the info and pics. I look forward to the other pics you'll be posting. I know of at least one other Bayliner owner besides me that is interested in how you did what you did. I'm sure there are many others who are at least thinking seriously about it.

Since I won't be receiving the unit until the end of the week, I just can't seem to picture how to install the hardware.

Now how did you physically install the TNT unit:

What did you have to move/replace with the TNT unit?

How did you move the motor itself?

What did you have to disconnect?

Is the TNT just screwed into the transom or bolted on?

Are you going to install an up and down switch near the transom, as well as, at the console?

Thanks for the support,

Al

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

BGod,
Thanks for the info and pics. I look forward to the other pics you'll be posting. I know of at least one other Bayliner owner besides me that is interested in how you did what you did. I'm sure there are many others who are at least thinking seriously about it.
Since I won't be receiving the unit until the end of the week, I just can't seem to picture how to install the hardware.

Now how did you physically install the TNT unit:
What did you have to move/replace with the TNT unit?
How did you move the motor itself?
What did you have to disconnect?
Is the TNT just screwed into the transom or bolted on?
Are you going to install an up and down switch near the transom, as well as, at the console?

Thanks for the support,
Al

if you send me an email address then I can send you printed instructions. the document is too large for forum limitations.

 

[birdgod]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

if you send me an email address then I can send you printed instructions. the document is too large for forum limitations.

man, how i wish you can send it to me before i install it.
Benz, the installation is very easy. nothing much to think about there is only one way to put the TNT on. it is lock down by to rods. you do have to remove the manual lock before you install the TNT, for me i learn it the hard way, but it was easy to remove even if you install the power TNT first. as for the gauge, i didn't have one
like i said if you send me the link to your purchase, i can see if you need anything else. Thanks

 

[Benz Mondi]

Re: trim and tilt question for 89 force 85hp OB

BGod,

Here's the ebay listing# 320598048232. I've already asked the seller to take the swivel and clamp off- saves them shipping cost and me the hassle of having to take it off. Don't know if the seller will though. Seller said that the unit has never seen salt water... seller located in Fredly, MN.

Thanx,

Al