trim up issues???

[not enuf toys]

alpha I gen II - 1996 - 5.7lx

i am having trim issues and looking for direction before i start tearing everying thing apart hunting down the issue.

outdrive will trim down with button
outdrive will not trim up with button (used to)
outdrive will trim up with trailer button
gauge does not seem to respond (gauge not frozen, moves with key on/off and when removing power or ground wire from gauge)

here is the scenerio; had boat in garage and a 5 yr old girl who is very nosey running around inside :facepalm:

i had the outdrive down (at this point gauge didnt seem to read correctly anyhow) within an inch of the ground. julia ran over to the throttle and hit the down button just for a second and the outdrive dropped to the ground and then she let go. i pressed up and it came up just fine. before i knew it, she did it again i pressed up and again came up just fine (only raised it an inch) and i made her get off the boat. about an hour later i wanted to lift the outdrive up farther and the up button was dead. i used the trailer button and worked just fine. tonight i checked the fuse buy the hydrolic pump for the outdrive and was good.

now i would like to hunt down the issue.

is there some sort of a safty that wants me to put the outdrive all the way down (obviously lower the front of the trailer so this can be done) before it will let it go back up?

i am thinking it is electrical. i am not sure if i should hot line test the wires coming back from the button, or the sending unit, or if there is an issue with the electronic "switch" directly on the pump.

any suggestions?

would this have any relationship to the gauge not working?

are there any "ground" wires outside the outdrive that may have come loose?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: trim up issues???

sounds like the trim limit/trim senders may need replacement
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Techbk/97/97hs6.pdf page 6-10 may be helpful

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

are you talking about the two solenoids by the pump? i am assuming one is up and one is down

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: trim up issues???

no ,check my edited link above

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

took a look at the link and now see what you are talking about. read something else online that says the trailer button should only be opperational when the out drive is up all the way from the up button, at that point the trailer button works to take it up further. is this correct? if so, yes, it sounds like a trim/limit sensor

now, wonder where in the hell that thing is at??? would you think it is back in the motor box? somewhere by the throttle lever?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: trim up issues???

From your description, everything may be just fine. So, lower the jack so the outdrive clears the ground. Lower the outdrive all the way. Try the up trim. If it works, run it till it stops. Measure center to center on the trim cylinder bolts. For gen II should be 20 3/4 inches. If it does not go up, locate two black wires in the back (from the trim limit switch) that go into a connector with two blue/white wires and one with a purple/white wire. Unplug and jumper between the connectors. Try trim switch. If it works the trouble is in your trim limit switch. Let us know how you make out.
Edit: Take a look at the wiring diagram in the link.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: trim up issues???

similiar to yours, it was all i had http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Techbk/94/94hsg3.pdf
#6, #30 page 3G-3

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

ok, so i put the tounge all the way down so i could drop the out drive all the way down. once all the way down, the up button worked....but only brought it up a little bit. not just an inch or so but not far enough. put it down and back up several times.

also, am i correct by reading that the trailer button should only work when up is all the way up? because the trailer button works the whole time.

so to me it sounds like the trim limit switch is on its way out.

now, where is it? looks like i traced the wires back to the motor?? is that right? couldnt find it, looks like the wires went to the starter solenoid....hmm might have traced the wrong wires....

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: trim up issues???

it on page 3G-3 in the link

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

got it!!!

is the sender on the other side what controls the guage?

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

it looks like the trim limit switch has adjustments on it for how high before it stops. is this correct? are these something i can adjust on my own or do the adjustments need to be tested before operation?

it does seem like when i last took it out (which was the first time as i just bought this boat) that the trim was limited on the top. not that you would want it to porpuse but you couldnt make it.

 

[nikon]

Re: trim up issues???

got it!!!

is the sender on the other side what controls the guage?

Yes, I had to replace both of mine since the wire were corroded...

The operation of the up trim button seems to be working correctly, press the button till it won't go up anymore then measure the ram length..My guess is it's working fine, but you probably need to replace the sender for the gauge.

And yes, both those senders are adjustable, you loosen the two screws then rotate them.

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

wow, just looked online for this replacement and this is not an easy job. might have to hit up one of the local marina's i have used in the past for this one.....ugg

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

adjustments on the trim limit switch worked perfect. i was able to ajust it up much higher. so i brought it back down so the "top" or all the way up with the switch was about 3/8 higher. since this is an easy adjustment i will make test runs untill i get it exactly where i want it. makes me think back to a 16 footer i had with a 120 merc that would adjust up waaay to high before it stopped. you really had to pay attention to the gauge and bow or it would jump out of the water. if i only knew now then....lol

i tried to adjust the trim sensor and no changes. i disconnected the sensor at the plug and the gauge went all the way to the top, so good thing, the gauge works, bad thing is the sensor is shot...now the delema...replace the sensor so the gauge works (which by the sounds of things may be expensive because if i have someone do it all the recomendations are to remove the complete outdrive) or just set the limit sensor so i know where it tops at. the nice thing about the gauge is i know with out listening or counting where the outdrive is before it trys to burn the motor up in either direction.

i am "that guy" that wants everything to work correctly and not half assed...hmm i guess i will wait to hear back from several of the marinas i deal with to see what the job will cost. if i decide to do it though i will for sure replace both at the same time reguardless if the limit sensor is working correctly....well not quite correctly because it is allowing the trailer button to work at any time. that being said, is the trailer button controled by the limit switch or the sensor?

thank you guys all a million for your help!!!

 

[stonyloam]

Re: trim up issues???

Sounds like you are making progress. Now to get the proper trim limit: Run the outdrive all the way down, then up with the trim switch. Go back and measure the distance from the center of the bolt holding the ram to the gimbal housing to the center of the bolt holding the ram to the outdrive. It should be 20 3/4 inches. Adjust your trim limit switch to give you that length. Run her up and down a few times to make sure it is consistent, and you should be good to go. I wouldn't worry too much about the trim gauge, you should learn to trim the boat by feel. The trim will be constantly changing depending on water conditions and load. I like to use my tach to help determine the most efficient trim. Good luck.

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

Would you make the trim go all the way up with the up button knowing that there is a trailer button? I would think that the benifit to the limit switch is knowing that the drive will only go up to a safe or just above optimal range while underway? I wouldn't think for any reason u would need it to go that high except for when loading or unloading or in extremely shallow waters, which at that time you could use the trailer button as an overide to the setting? ~ just trying to think this one out...but I am open to anything that makes sense

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

However giving me more than optimal makes a lot sense especially when loads will change and she is an open bow...might make another adjustment for 3 to 4 inches more than current

 

[stonyloam]

Re: trim up issues???

Would you make the trim go all the way up with the up button knowing that there is a trailer button?

I would think that the benifit to the limit switch is knowing that the drive will only go up to a safe or just above optimal range while underway?

I wouldn't think for any reason u would need it to go that high except for when loading or unloading or in extremely shallow waters, which at that time you could use the trailer button as an overide to the setting? ~ just trying to think this one out...but I am open to anything that makes sense

I think we may have a failure to communicate here LOL.

NO absolutely not.

That is correct. You only want the hydraulic rams that control trim to extend part way and then the trim limit switch stops them before they get too high. The 20 3/4 inches refers to the maximum extended ram length (end to end) allowed by the trim limit switch. Here is a link to the adjustment procedure: http://www.mercstuff.com/trim_limit.htm Please note that they refer to the extended length from the end of the ram arm to the ram as 6 1/2 inches, that is to the end of the cylinder, 20 3/4 should be the overall length.

Never above 1100 RPM when above the trim limit maximum.

 

[StevNimrod]

Re: trim up issues???

I believe the Merc spec on that adjustment is 20.75" like Stony said. Other than going off that, I don't know of any reasonable way to adjust it to what you want (i.e., adjust and drive, adjust more and drive more, rinse and repeat) and have found that I never use all 21". YMMV.

If the marinas are wanting to take everything apart, it might be a good idea to get your bellows done while they're in that far. Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me to get that far in and not do bellows.

You can check the resistance of the trim sender as someone else actuates it. It should be a smooth sweep. Any bad ones I've had were smooth in spots, then dead, then smooth again, then dead again; but for some reason did not register at all on the gauge.

If you set the limit switch to spec, the gauge is useful to tell you what you already know. That is to say, if you want every gauge working, then by all means go for it, but those trim senders are problems in my experience in terms of having them work more than a couple seasons. I tend to be on the more retentive side of things, so of course mine work, but from what I understand most people's don't.

The trailer button is not controlled by anything. It controls the "UP" independently of the limit switch. Meaning the limit switch makes sure you don't overtrim when using your trim buttons, while the trailer button makes sure you can put your drive all the way up when you go to trailer.

 

[not enuf toys]

Re: trim up issues???

Ahhhh duh :redface:
I really didn't read that right. I will go bury my head in the corner now! Lol