using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

[summit1]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

I am not trying to get out on the cheap here. I just want the best product for my boat. I run mobil 1 syn in my truck, syn in my transmission and syn gear oil in front and rear differentials. <br /><br />I didn't go with syn because alot of people have said not to. Maybe for the reasons you said, but he did say rotella was ok. That just tells me that just because two people are mechanics or even work in a merc certified shop, they will say the same thing. One says use only merc oil, and the other says rotella. My good friend was a mechanic in the US Army, and he said the only thing they used was synthetic in ALL of their engines. They beat them to hell and back. That tells me something...which is why I use it in my truck. <br /><br />I guess with the boat the 30wt will work. If it's good enough for Tom and 25 yrs, it's good enough for this young pup. You did say I would have to take into consideration the hotter weather...in what way. The 30wt will work for me down here, right?

 

[tommays]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

up here on long island when were out on the water its rare to be above 80 deg with the ocean breeze<br /><br />i have spent a lot of time in texas on repiar jobs and it was always hot as hell sometimes 110 deg in dallas on a bad day so a 40 WT might be safer if its that hot<br /><br />tommays

 

[LubeDude]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

I can appriciate going by the book, but the Chevron Dello 400 15W40 will kick the SuperTech 30 weights oils b*tt every way but Sunday in any test you want to give it. Recomendations to the wind!!! It would also kick the Mercury oils B*tt also. As to the Amsoil, it was designed from the ground up to be the best sterndrive oil available, so I would figure it would kick any other oils B*tt for Sterndrive oil. Its easy to read a book, but there are oils that will out perform the reccomended oil.

 

[butlp]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Oh no here we go again, LD may have fallen off the be nice wagon! <br />Mods better get ready for the Oil Wars to restart!

 

[LubeDude]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

He, He, He, He, He, He, He, He, He, Off to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time!<br /><br />Deep breath, Deep breath!!<br /><br />I can read too, but I tend to go by the actual oil analisis I see in real world situations. The Mercury oil just doesnt hold up as well as the HDDOs, and synthetics are superior to both.

 

[BillP]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Originally posted by LubeDude:<br /> This is not boat related, but it shows corrosion aspects.<br /><br />A few years ago, I towed a 66 Elcamino out of a field, (Yes, its the one in the pictures in the other post). It had a 283 in it that had not been run for about ten years. The car had been out in the weather sitting flat on the ground with no tires or air cleaner. I rebuilt this engine with all the stock parts except gaskets rings and bearings. When I tore it down, there was "NO" rust inside the engine at all. Im telling this story to say that the corrosion,(rust) protection issue Probably isnt much of an issue if storing in the off season for just a few months.<br />

If the El Camino's engine was near new and sat for 10yrs it would have had rust. Old engines get a film of protection from miles of running and normally don't rust badly. New motors don't have that protection and tend to show rust quickly. Ask the professionals who rebuild antique auto motors about it. It helps to get all the data.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Somehow you missed it, (Not sure how), The engine was old, the engine set for about ten years before I got it, I pulled it apart and there was no rust inside. "THEN" I rebuilt it with all the old parts except gaskets and bearings, oh, and rings and water and oil pump.

 

[KaGee]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

So, let me get this straight....<br /><br />Will AUTO engine oil work in my BOAT or won't it?<br /><br />JK!!!!! LOL <br /><br />You guys are a hoot! <br /><br />Hey LD.... FYI.... I switched to Chevron DELO 400.

 

[BillP]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Originally posted by LubeDude:<br /> Somehow you missed it, (Not sure how), The engine was old, the engine set for about ten years before I got it, I pulled it apart and there was no rust inside. "THEN" I rebuilt it with all the old parts except gaskets and bearings, oh, and rings and water and oil pump.

LD,<br />Read this slowly...Old used engines sit and don't rust because they have a film built up on the parts. Engines with low miles don't have that protection and tend to rust if sitting for years. Ask the pro motorhead restoration guys for verification. Translation: Do NOT let your new low time boat motor sit years like your El Camino did and think it won't rust.<br /><br /><br />KaGee,<br />Auto oil is ok if you match the specs published by the motor mfg. It's all about specifications.

 

[tommays]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

heres a real world oil test<br /><br />at work i have a 4.3 GM powered water chiller it is a crusaider marine engine manifolds and all it runs on natural gas and has a 20 gallon remote oil tank<br /><br />the oil is changed 2 times per year with castrol 10-30<br /><br />the motor is out side like a car motor and runs at a speed of 2000 rpm it currently has 9000 hours yes that is 9000 over a 6 year period of time and the repiars it has had are valve jobs every 3000 to 4000 hrs<br /><br />tommays

 

[LubeDude]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Sorry Bill, It was me that missinterpreted what you were saying.<br /><br />It is true what you are saying, but parts like the cam lobs and cylinder walls are as clean as they can get (which is the parts that normally rust) and there was no rust there either. This engine had only 56,000 miles, documented as I knew the original owner. My wife and her best freind drove this car to High School. My wifes best freinds mother was the original owner and was in poor heath and parked the car in the garag. Several years later the nephews got the car started and took it out in the field and were spinning cookies and blew the powerglide transmision and there it set.<br /><br />"Ask the pro motorhead restoration guys for verification". I pretty much fit into that catagory".<br /><br />I was quite surprised that I could even turn the engine over after all those years.<br /><br />This was my original statement.<br /><br />" Im telling this story to say that the corrosion,(rust) protection issue Probably isnt much of an issue if storing in the off season for Just a few months ".

 

[LubeDude]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Originally posted by KaGee:<br /> ey LD.... FYI.... I switched to Chevron DELO 400.

Whats wrong with ya boy? Dont ya know that:<br /><br /> Its the wrong viscosity! <br /><br /> It has the wrong API ATING! <br /><br /> And its a multiviscosity oil! <br /><br />You wont be sorry.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Chevron does not recommend their Delo 400 15W-40 for marine use. They recommend their Delo 100 straight-grades. Shell does not recommend their Rotella T 15W-40 for marine use. They recommend their Rotella T straight-grades.<br /><br />Both Mercruiser and the oil makers accept science and testing that supports not using a polymer enhanced, multi-grade oil with viscometric property improvers. Viscosity improvers leave the oil susceptible to shear viscosity breakdown under extreme load, rpm, and temperature. This is a basic concept with oil.<br /><br />A good example would be comparing Delo 400 15W-40 to Delo 100 SAE 40. Both will have very similar kinematic viscosities at 100'C (within 00.1 cSt). Both would essentially provide similar shear viscosity and frictional properties at that temperature. But put the oils under higher loads, rpm, temperature, etc., and things change.<br /><br />The difference is that the 15W-40 obtains its level of protection by using viscosity improvers (along with 50% more ash, 30% more phosphorus, etc.). Because of the viscosity improvers, the 15W-40 leaves itself open to shear breakdown under the higher loads, rpm, temperatures and fuel saturation of marine use. Under harsh conditions the viscosity improvers come apart resulting in a viscosity change eventually reducing engine protection. <br /><br />Absent of viscosity improvers, the SAE 40 straight-grade can continue to protect the engine under increased loads, rpm, temperature and fuel saturation. The straight-grade will hold its viscosity long after the multi-grade polymers start coming apart. The Mercruiser 25W-40 oil is unique. It does not use viscosity improvers to obtain its multi-viscosity. It uses a combination of grades.<br /><br />Another thing worth mentioning is that the more a viscosity improver stretches the oil's multi-viscosity capabilities, the more susceptible it is to shear breakdown. A 10W-30 oil will hold its viscosity better under harsh conditions than a 10W-40. Recently a tight 5W-20 is becoming a popular automotive oil.<br /><br />There are many straight-grade synthetic oils that will carry the specified viscosity and the CF,CF-2/SL API license for the Mercruiser. Amsoil is not one of them. (Note: Mercruiser specifically does not recommend a synthetic oil).<br /><br />Member LubeDude: Could you please post reference to the Mercruiser marine engine testing data that would show the shear viscosities of the Delo 400 15W-40 outperforming Mercury's 25W-40 and the SuperTech Universal 30. I would like to analyze that information for members here. <br /><br />Could you also take the time to explain to members why they should disregard the manufacturer's specifications, the oil makers recommendations, the API's service categories, and the standards and testing established by the ASME, SAE, etc.<br /><br />I am particularily interested in any technical information that would support your recommendations. Thank you.

 

[garycinn]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br />The Mercruiser 25W-40 oil is unique. It does not use viscosity improvers to obtain its multi-viscosity. It uses a combination of grades.

It may be unique, but I don't think that combining a 25 and 40 grade oil is that special.<br /><br />

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br />There are many straight-grade synthetic oils that will carry the specified viscosity and the CF,CF-2/SL API license for the Mercruiser.

Please name these straight-grade synthetics that carry these licenses. I only know of one that is somewhat readily available.<br /><br />Whoa, not so fast. You stuck SL in your text. Merc doesn't recommend SL, they recommend the obsolete SH category -- <br /><br /> http://www.mercurymarine.com/fueloil_recommendation_faqs#1124 <br /><br />How can you assume that Merc wants you to use the current SL category, when the latest on their website lists SH? Yes, SH, the category that is close to a decade old. It is hard to take Merc seriously when they recommend obsolete API categories.<br /><br />It is also VERY hard to take Merc seriously when they recommend against synthetics, yet they advertise a synthetic blend for sterndrives.

 

[Buttanic]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Correct me if I am wrong but Chevron Delo and Shell Rotella are primarily used in commercial diesel engines. Most large commercial vessels run engines 24/7. Oil is run much longer before changes and in some cases not changed at all but run thru onboard purifying systems and reused. In these cases shear breakdown would be a problem. Also the engine room of a large vessel remains at a constant temperature (hot)so multi viscosity oil is not needed. I believe the oil manufactures recomendations of oil for marine use is based on these factors. Mercruiser just goes along with them. Most pleasure boats do not come anywhere near operating under these conditions. Like Bondo says any oil is better than no oil. Use what you what and change it regularly and you will have many hours of happy boating.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

I know nothing , but seems like this post by garycinn regarding email correspondence with Mercruiser re: engine oil & synthetics should be included in this thread. Everything below is from his post.________________________________________________________________________________________________<br /><br />garycinn <br />Petty Officer 2nd Class <br />Member # 33996 <br /><br /> posted October 14, 2004 09:58 AM <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Here is my email:<br /><br />I am very confused about engine oil for my sterndrive engine.<br /><br />Your website states that synthetics are not recommended, yet you market a synthetic blend oil for sterndrive engines.<br /><br />You also list that if I cannot obtain your Merc 25W40 oil to use a straight grade with API category ratings of SH,CF/CF-2.<br /><br />The SH category rating is obsolete --<br /> http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/Guidechart2002.pdf What do I do? I cannot find oils that meet an obsolete API category rating.<br /><br />When are you going to update your website to reflect your new synthetic blend oil? When are you going to add your synthetic blend oil to your<br />website?<br /><br /> http://www.mercurymarine.com/fueloil_recommendation_faqs#1124 <br /><br />When are you going to update the obsolete SH category recommendation to an SJ or SL?<br /><br />Any help would be appreciated.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Gary<br /><br />============================<br /><br />Their response:<br /><br />Mercury has just recently developed a 25W-40 synthetic blend oil that we are recommending in our latest engines. This oil was not available when your engine was built. If you choose to use a synthetic oil, this one is the only one we recommend. Our conventional 25W-40 oil is also a blended oil of a straight 25 and straight 40 weight oils, like the synthetic blend. If you choose not to use either of these oils, our next recommendation is either a straight 30 or 40 weight oil. Any good quality automotive detergent oil of these weights would be fine. We will be addressing the website asap.<br /><br />Best regards,<br /><br />MerCruiser customer service<br /><br />============<br /><br />My comments:<br /><br />At least they aren't saying that they don't recommend synthetics because they haven't tested them (like they used to in the past) .

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Originally posted by garycinn:<br /><br />Whoa, not so fast. You stuck SL in your text. Merc doesn't recommend SL, they recommend the obsolete SH category -- <br /><br /> http://www.mercurymarine.com/fueloil_recommendation_faqs#1124 <br /><br />How can you assume that Merc wants you to use the current SL category, when the latest on their website lists SH? Yes, SH, the category that is close to a decade old.

The SH category didn't go away, per say. The SL category now includes the SH and SJ categories. The API gasoline category rating system is an inclusive, sequential identification system. <br /><br />Engine manufacturers don’t go back and change their specification every time a new oil category is developed. The new category already includes the one they specified. It would be futile to do that because new oil categories are constantly being developed in the engine industry.<br /><br />New engine technologies drive new oil categories. New oil categories don’t drive engine technology. And new oil categories don't require engine manufacturers to modify the spec to which they design their engines. The newer SL category was not developed for the Mercruiser engines. It was developed for the entire gasoline engine industry - Probably sparked by engines with new emission demands.<br /><br /><br />

Originally posted by garycinn:<br /><br />It is hard to take Merc seriously when they recommend obsolete API categories.

I operate both Ford and GM vehicles that specify a SH oil. I take those two manufacturers seriously.<br /><br />

Originally posted by garycinn:<br /><br />It is also VERY hard to take Merc seriously when they recommend against synthetics, yet they advertise a synthetic blend for sterndrives.

According to a Mercury Oil Specialist (October 11), a Mercruiser synthetic oil is not yet available in the U.S. Please reference where I can buy this oil.<br /><br />It is possible that Mercury felt there were/are some synthetic oils containing solid additives or other additives that may not be compatible with marine use and components in the older Mercruisers. I respect the fact Mercruiser may not feel comfortable making a blanket synthetic recommendation for their engines. <br /> <br /><br />

Originally posted by garycinn:<br /><br />It may be unique, but I don't think that combining a 25 and 40 grade oil is that special.

Formulating a multi-viscosity, detergent oil without polymer viscosity improvers is very complex. It is not easy or cheap to get both multi-grade performance and straight-grade toughness from a newtonian type oil (oil that does not change viscosity with the rate of flow). Plus it must meet the API's CF,CF-2,SH(SL) requirement, and pass SAE and ASTM specifications for things like shear viscosity of a 25W-40 oil.<br /><br />

Originally posted by garycinn:<br /><br />Please name these straight-grade synthetics that carry these licenses. I only know of one that is somewhat readily available.

If you are into synthetics, Royal Purple has a SAE 30 and a SAE 40 synthetic oil that are licensed by the API and carry the CF,CF-2/SJ spec. You could probably order it on-line.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

^<br /><br />

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br /><br />Member LubeDude: Could you please post reference to the Mercruiser marine engine testing data that would show the shear viscosities of the Delo 400 15W-40 outperforming Mercury's 25W-40 and the SuperTech Universal 30. I would like to analyze that information for members here. <br /><br />Could you also take the time to explain to members why they should disregard the manufacturer's specifications, the oil makers recommendations, the API's service categories, and the standards and testing established by the ASME, SAE, etc.<br /><br />I am particularily interested in any technical information that would support your recommendations. Thank you.

 

[garycinn]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br />I operate both Ford and GM vehicles that specify a [sic] SH oil. I take those two manufacturers seriously.

Obviously, if you have an older vehicle it will list SH as a category. My point was that very few (if any) companies are recommending an SH oil today on new automobile/boat engines like Mercruiser does.<br /><br /><br />

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br />According to a Mercury Oil Specialist (October 11), a Mercruiser synthetic oil is not yet available in the U.S. Please reference where I can buy this oil.

I wish I knew. I have been wanting to do a VOA on it ever since I saw it in national magazines in the spring of this year.<br /><br />

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br />If you are into synthetics, Royal Purple has a SAE 30 and a SAE 40 synthetic oil that are licensed by the API and carry the CF,CF-2/SJ spec.

OK. That is the only one I could name. Your original post said "There are many..." I thought I was missing the second one through many. If you know more, please share....

 

[BillP]

Re: using automotive oil for a 4.3 stern drive

Originally posted by Buttanic:<br /> Correct me if I am wrong but Chevron Delo and Shell Rotella are primarily used in commercial diesel engines. Most large commercial vessels run engines 24/7. Oil is run much longer before changes and in some cases not changed at all but run thru onboard purifying systems and reused. In these cases shear breakdown would be a problem.

The reason big diesel rigs run longer between oil change is due to their oil capacity. Example: A CAT 3126B 300hp turbo has two size oil pans available...stock (17 qt) and extra capacity (27 qt). The 27 qt increases factory recommened oil changes from 250hrs to 400hrs. It all about keeping the rig on the road making money instead of spending time with oil changes. It has nothing to do with oil brands.